Really a good read here. Quite good today Friedman NYtimes.

[Gumby]

Originally Posted by FinanceDude

Were you not asked to make sacrifices that may NOT have been in the national interest? Not being a military man, I am just asking the question, why would you join the military if you think that the only war worth fighting was World War II......(maybe)??

DW's best friend's husband just got back from 18 months in Iraq. He said he was proud of serving his country, and that we don't get to see what good we are doing because the media is more concerned with body counts than how many Iraqi children are going to school for the first time in their lives, among other things.

His unit provided security for the convoys rumbling in and out of Baghdad, and he said he had some hairy moments..............

I was an officer on a ballistic missile submarine. I believed then and still do that maintaining a credible nuclear deterrent was in the best interests of this nation. Even though it would have depressed me to no end to shoot those missiles, I trained every day to just that, and I'm sure I would have done it if ordered by the president. I could see a clear connection between what was asked of me (at least most of the time) and the national interest.

Why did I join? Because I was young and full of piss and vinegar and I thought I could serve my country, which, notwithstanding my criticisms of the government, I do love (it also didn't hurt that they paid for me to go to college). Is my attitude different today? I would like to think that age has mellowed me. When I joined the military at 18, I felt invincible. From 31 years on, I can see how fragile life is. Age has also caused me to question things, such as government policy, that I might have once accepted at face value.

I have also talked to people who have been to Iraq, and they have told similar stories about the good things they are doing. I don't doubt it one bit -- our troops are kind and caring guys and gals. But really, did we go to war so Iraqi kids could go to school? In any event, I'm glad your friend is home safe.

[Rustic23]

Gumby,
I would like for you to think about something. If you are right, and our enemies don't welcome the anti-war movement in the US, the no harm no foul.

However, if I am right, and our enemies take action to fan the fuel of the anti-war activist i.e. target our soldiers, then your actions contribute to the death toll then you are partially reasonable for 'the young faces of dead soldiers'

Now you are educated, which is the safer course?

[Rustic23]

[quote=Gumby;586778]I could see a clear connection between what was asked of me (at least most of the time) and the national interest.
quote]

This is a disturbing quote. Would you not do you duty if you disagreed with the national command authority? Hopefully this is not what you intended to infer.

[Gumby]

Originally Posted by Rustic23

Gumby,
I would like for you to think about something. If you are right, and our enemies don't welcome the anti-war movement in the US, the no harm no foul.

However, if I am right, and our enemies take action to fan the fuel of the anti-war activist i.e. target our soldiers, then your actions contribute to the death toll then you are partially reasonable for 'the young faces of dead soldiers'

Now you are educated, which is the safer course?

A reasonable request and I will think about it, but my initial response is to ask you this -- does Joe Jihadi shoot American soldiers because he wants to encourage Gumby to protest more or simply because he wants to kill American soldiers?

[Gumby]

[quote=Rustic23;586790]

Originally Posted by Gumby

I could see a clear connection between what was asked of me (at least most of the time) and the national interest.
quote]

This is a disturbing quote. Would you not do you duty if you disagreed with the national command authority? Hopefully this is not what you intended to infer.

Apologies if I was not clear. As I said, when the launch order came, I would have launched. My comment was regarding things like brassoing the underside of my belt buckle. I'm certain you remember there were sometimes similarly stupid and pointless things the military required you to do.

[Rustic23]

By the way what boomer were you on. DW's brother was the first Captain of the Florida, and was in boomers his entire career. (See, while I strongly disagree with your position, we can still be civil, even friendly, I hope)

[Gumby]

USS George Washington and USS George Washington Carver. (I never take disagreement as a personal attack. I am political poles apart from some of my closest friends and virtually all of my relatives. If we all thought the same way, wouldn't that be dull.)