Join Early Retirement Today
View Poll Results: Would You Vote for GW in 2008 (if he could run)
Thumbs Up 16 15.53%
Thumbs Down 87 84.47%
Voters: 103. You may not vote on this poll

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 09-20-2007, 12:46 AM   #101
Dryer sheet aficionado
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 44
Don't put words in my mouth, you fascist wannabe.

Were you in Nam? Did you smell the stink of burning flesh?

Punk.
__________________

__________________
talltrees is offline  
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 09-20-2007, 04:47 AM   #102
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
ladelfina's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 2,713
youbet, you don't know me. "People like me" are, to you, some imaginary group yukking it up when NObody is doing that. Instead, people against both the Iraq war and the Vietnam war have wanted desperately to save our young soldiers' lives and not squander them needlessly.

"Funny" (in the dictionary "people like me" have) can also mean "strange", "odd", "peculiar" or even "tricky" or "false" (as in funny money).

You want sick? THIS is sick:
Glenn Greenwald - Political Blogs and Opinions - Salon
Quote:
Fred Kagan yesterday went to National Review -- home to countless tough guy warriors like him who fight nothing -- to argue against Senator Webb's bill. There is no need to give our troops more time away from the battlefield, Kagan types. Besides, doing that would be too administratively difficult ("this amendment would actually require the Army and Marine Corps staffs to keep track of how long every individual servicemember had spent in either Iraq or Afghanistan, how long they had been at home, how long the unit that they were now in had spent deployed, and how long it had been home").

If troops want more time at home, Kagan says, there is an easy way to achieve that: "win the war we're fighting." Of course, that would not even work, because Kagan and his friends at the Weekly Standard and the American Enterprise Institute have many more wars planned beyond Iraq for other families' sons and daughters to fight. For that reason, Kagan actually had the audacity several months ago to type this:

Quote:
The president must issue a personal call for young Americans to volunteer to fight in the decisive conflict of this generation.
That's the history of our country for the last six years at least. The Fred Kagans and his dad and his brother and his wife and his best friend Bill Kristol sit back casually demanding more wars, demanding that our troops be denied any relief, demanding that the President call for other families to volunteer to fight in their wars -- all "as an intellectual or emotional exercise," as Webb put it.

That's all revolting enough. But to then watch Fred Kagan sit around opposing Senator Webb's attempts to relieve some of the strain on our troops -- all because it would require too much paperwork to figure out and because they haven't yet won Fred Kagan's war and thus deserve no breaks -- is almost too much to bear. But it is worth forcing oneself to observe it, as unpleasant as it might be, because within this ugly dynamic lies much of the explanation for what has happened to our country since the 9/11 attack, and the personality type that continues to drive it today.
Kagan is apparently quoting or paraphrasing Gen. Odierno on the "win the war" bit. He continues (on expanding the number of military personnel):
Quote:
...grudgingly, the administration has announced an extremely modest program of expansion on a five-year timeline. If the critics of the current strategy who purport to be so concerned about the strain of the forces were serious, they would be pounding their desks and demanding a more aggressive program for expanding the ground forces. The fact that most of them have made no such demands speaks volumes about the real motivations of amendments such as this one.
http://article.nationalreview.com/?q...Q4OTNmZTk0ZDc=

This is how surreal these people are. Note also the sleight-of-hand that lays the blame for the under-manning of the ground war at the feet of "the critics".

For those who don't know who Kagan is, he's one of the wingnut co-founders -- along with Bill Kristol, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Jeb Bush, Scooter Libby, Perle, Bolton, Wolfowitz, Eliot Abrams, etc. -- of the PNAC. (Maybe some of you recall convicted felon Abrams as one of the Iran-Contra architects, now he's some Deputy Secretary-of-goddamned-State). Pretty much draft-dodgers all.. yet they really believe 100% in a kind of modern, exclusively military-driven, magical Manifest Destiny that does not stop at the Pacific Ocean. It stops nowhere. It stops at nothing. In their purity of ideology, there is not, nor should there be, a natural or rational limit.
http://www.newamericancentury.org/st...principles.htm

That's why Webb's bill infuriates them. It implies resources have rational limits, here notably acknowledging the impossibility of fighting men/women to be expected to go on forever like Energizer bunnies. It implies America is not super-human, and that does not compute.

OAP is right to say "it is not over yet." They want to 'take out' Iran and Syria. It's easy for people to get sucked into the immediate Iraq/not-Iraq debate and lose sight of the fact that for the PNAC crowd Iraq is just a first, necessary, piece in a much larger puzzle they want to see put together.. and if you think Iraq is costly in terms of lives and dollars, you ain't seen nothin' yet. In their dreams, we would and SHOULD be waging war against half the world. If the majority of Americans were only truly cognizant of this..
__________________

__________________
ladelfina is offline  
Old 09-20-2007, 05:14 AM   #103
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 223
OAP,

A PM would be great, I try to get as many angles to info to better understand the issues and I think this would be an interesting one. By the way due you know or read Pat Lang's blog - interesting comments from him and others - not that I agree with all - as I said I try to get various info to learn.

Thanks
F-One
__________________
F-One is offline  
Old 09-20-2007, 05:49 AM   #104
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
ladelfina's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 2,713
hooo boy.. as if it couldn't get stranger, now we have "Incas".

Attytood: More proof "the surge is working": Right-wingers claim even the CIA is afraid to go outside without trigger-happy Blackwater

---
Plus, bonus-find-of-the-day, wherein we see where the "N more years!" Bush meme has root:
http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/2007/...n-getting.html

Anointing a president-for-life will help counter the "drawbacks of democracy"!!!
That we don't appreciate the genius of Bush is due to our own "inadequacy"!

Just dumb-founded. Would never have thought to read words like this coming from an American.. I mean, isn't this why we oppose Castro, the Stalinists, etc.?

Frank Gaffney (noted in the post as a Family Security Matters board member) is -surprise!- also a PNAC guy (and Reagan-era Ass't. Sec. of Defense)!

Reviewing Atkinson's anti-PC book, Free Republic (site that right-wing sis sends me links to) has this to say: "FSM Contributing Editor Philip Atkinsonís expert evaluation is an important contribution to one of the premier issues of our times."

Must go shower now.
__________________
ladelfina is offline  
Old 09-20-2007, 06:55 AM   #105
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 2,119
What is so damn absurd is that there are so many that give the president a pass on the finding and killing of osama bin laden and ayman al zwahiri. These were the guys who started the mess on 9/11, but we never finished the real war, getting them and every last person who went thru their terror camps in the late 90s. when we went into afganistan we got all the names when we found the camps. we should have hunted them all down in every part of the planet and made them disappear in the night. But no we used our big military to attack saddam. An arab socialist moron but who was boxed in.

We are past 6 years sitting in Iraq and hearing we have to win. In Iraq. Win What?? I always thought when you went to war you were to kill everything in sight until the other side put up the white flag. Right? Well that IS NOT the policy in Iraq or Afgahnistan for that matter. Uh its time to come home tax gasoline big time get americans to cahnge their habits where it comes to energy, rebuild the railroads take care of our own and tell the rest of the world to well GROW UP and build a better society for their people but america will be back on our side of the pond.

Oh here is the new report from bin laden and al zwahiri..
Bin Laden tape to declare war on Musharraf - Yahoo! News

Oh we are told we cannot go into pakistan. Uh right.

Bush supporters a question? Why are these two still alive and making videos?
__________________
newguy88 is offline  
Old 09-20-2007, 09:29 AM   #106
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
FinanceDude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 12,484
Quote:
Originally Posted by newguy888 View Post
s
Oh we are told we cannot go into pakistan. Uh right.

Bush supporters a question? Why are these two still alive and making videos?
Start posting SOLUTIONS rather than complaints, and maybe we can have a decent discussion....instead of continuing to post "the boy who cried wolf" statements.............
__________________
Consult with your own advisor or representative. My thoughts should not be construed as investment advice. Past performance is no guarantee of future results (love that one).......:)


This Thread is USELESS without pics.........:)
FinanceDude is offline  
Old 09-20-2007, 09:29 AM   #107
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Rustic23's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Lake Livingston, Tx
Posts: 3,624
Where are the Bush defenders?

Why would someone waste their breath on a group that have all ready made up their minds?

I dare say, after reading the post here, if someone attempted they would be shouted down with insults. Looks at some of the things said when someone points out misstatements.

For the most part, it appears that most posters in this thread believe they are more intelligent, had more information, new more about the middle east, and are better prepared to make decisions than the executive branch. You don't change closed minds.

Take one statement: 'Bush is stupid'. That is what the liberal press has told us and it appears most have consumed the argument. Bush is not an articulate speaker. But in a nation where less than 30% have a college degree, and less than 5% have an advanced degree, Bush's credentials do not come off as stupid. If you would like to attack his common sense, or decision process, fare game. However if you were only told:

a. has no high school diploma
b. has no college degree
c. has a degree from Yale and MBA from Harvard

I dare say most would not pick a and b the actors and actresses that make such a statement.
__________________
Rustic23 is offline  
Old 09-20-2007, 09:59 AM   #108
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
FinanceDude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 12,484
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rustic23 View Post
Where are the Bush defenders?

Why would someone waste their breath on a group that have all ready made up their minds?

I dare say, after reading the post here, if someone attempted they would be shouted down with insults. Looks at some of the things said when someone points out misstatements.

For the most part, it appears that most posters in this thread believe they are more intelligent, had more information, new more about the middle east, and are better prepared to make decisions than the executive branch. You don't change closed minds.

Take one statement: 'Bush is stupid'. That is what the liberal press has told us and it appears most have consumed the argument. Bush is not an articulate speaker. But in a nation where less than 30% have a college degree, and less than 5% have an advanced degree, Bush's credentials do not come off as stupid. If you would like to attack his common sense, or decision process, fare game. However if you were only told:

a. has no high school diploma
b. has no college degree
c. has a degree from Yale and MBA from Harvard

I dare say most would not pick a and b the actors and actresses that make such a statement.
Good post........ Plus, I'm sure that MOST of the REAL stuff that goes on everywhere is not known to the average citizen of the US..........
__________________
Consult with your own advisor or representative. My thoughts should not be construed as investment advice. Past performance is no guarantee of future results (love that one).......:)


This Thread is USELESS without pics.........:)
FinanceDude is offline  
Old 09-20-2007, 10:15 AM   #109
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
ladelfina's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 2,713
Rustic23/FinanceDude, if you are saying actors and actresses (excluding Reagan?) should not be the most heedworthy sources for foreign policy discussion, I will agree with you most wholeheartedly!!

Maybe people's minds won't be changed 180 degrees. But I DO like to hear well-thought-out and sincere comments from people I probably don't entirely agree with on all things (like Wags!). You can cherry-pick both pro- and anti-Bush commenters anywhere and come up with statements that are too generic or black-and-white. But most posters in this thread haven't insulted other posters, and I think we all probably have a pretty good education. So I'll keep talking and I'll keep listening.

There are no end of educated, patriotic people within the administration who were not heeded. When Bush didn't like a general's assessment, he got a new general. You don't assess a situation as a rational adult with a HUGE responsibility by throwing out data you don't like and relying solely on ideology. This is pretty clearly his modus operandi in life, and frankly, it's worse than stupidity; mere stupidity could be excused.

Nords: tid-bit on Colin Powell
Quote:
Bush's deployed his fetish for punctuality as a punitive weapon. When Colin Powell was several minutes late to a Cabinet meeting, Bush ordered that the door to the Cabinet Room be locked.
cookie756.html

If we are talking about the Epic Battle for Western Civilization (as we supposedly are), the Bush promoters have gotten pretty quiet recently, considering. Shouldn't they be stepping into the breach with redoubled fervor?
__________________
ladelfina is offline  
Old 09-20-2007, 10:37 AM   #110
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
retire@40's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,670
And the forum spam continues....
__________________
No man is free who is not master of himself. --- Epictetus
Enjoy Yourself (It's Later Than You Think). --- Guy Lombardo
retire@40 is offline  
Old 09-20-2007, 11:12 AM   #111
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
FinanceDude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 12,484
Quote:
Originally Posted by retire@40 View Post
And the forum spam continues....
__________________
Consult with your own advisor or representative. My thoughts should not be construed as investment advice. Past performance is no guarantee of future results (love that one).......:)


This Thread is USELESS without pics.........:)
FinanceDude is offline  
Old 09-20-2007, 11:14 AM   #112
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
brewer12345's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 16,391
Boy, am I glad I took a pass on this one...
__________________
"There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest have to pee on the electric fence for themselves."



- Will Rogers
brewer12345 is offline  
Old 09-20-2007, 11:26 AM   #113
Moderator Emeritus
Martha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: minnesota
Posts: 13,212
Quote:
Originally Posted by brewer12345 View Post
Boy, am I glad I took a pass on this one...

Happy birthday Brewer.
__________________
.


No more lawyer stuff, no more political stuff, so no more CYA

Martha is offline  
Old 09-20-2007, 11:27 AM   #114
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
brewer12345's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 16,391
Thanks, martha.
__________________
"There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest have to pee on the electric fence for themselves."



- Will Rogers
brewer12345 is offline  
Old 09-20-2007, 04:54 PM   #115
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 802
I think Bush is stupid.

How the hell could you have voted twice for such an obvious dimwit?
__________________
Zipper is offline  
Old 09-20-2007, 05:13 PM   #116
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
REWahoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Texas Hill Country
Posts: 42,074
Note: With the addition of Zipper's carefully phrased comments we have now officially reached the point on this thread where the arguement turns to "Your mom wears combat boots!" and "My dad can beat up your dad!", to be followed immediately by the exchange of several volleys of "Oh Yeah?"

Enough already...

__________________
Numbers is hard

When I hit 70, it hit back

Retired in 2005 at age 58, no pension
REWahoo is offline  
Old 09-20-2007, 05:16 PM   #117
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
retire@40's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,670
Quote:
Originally Posted by REWahoo View Post
...Enough already...
I vote to lock this thread.
__________________
No man is free who is not master of himself. --- Epictetus
Enjoy Yourself (It's Later Than You Think). --- Guy Lombardo
retire@40 is offline  
Old 09-20-2007, 05:17 PM   #118
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
wildcat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Lou-evil
Posts: 2,025
I have it on self-destruct mode. Everyone has 30 second left...
__________________
"These walls are kind of funny. First you hate 'em, then you get used to 'em. Enough time passes, gets so you depend on them"
wildcat is offline  
Old 09-20-2007, 05:21 PM   #119
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
youbet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 9,965
Quote:
Originally Posted by retire@40 View Post
I vote to lock this thread.
Please........
__________________
"I wasn't born blue blood. I was born blue-collar." John Wort Hannam
youbet is offline  
Old 09-20-2007, 05:21 PM   #120
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern IL
Posts: 18,261
Quote:
Originally Posted by ladelfina View Post
Just dumb-founded. Would never have thought to read words like this coming from an American.
I thought we worshipped free speech? So why be surprised when someone voices an opinion?

-ERD50
__________________

__________________
ERD50 is offline  
Closed Thread


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
What should Bush say tomorrow janeeyre Other topics 94 01-15-2007 11:12 AM
George Bush Comes In Third benny Other topics 49 11-06-2006 05:13 PM
who saw the bush impersonator? thefed Other topics 0 07-04-2006 09:13 PM
Bush part 3? Dawg52 Other topics 13 05-11-2006 12:24 PM
Bush gets progressive with SS laurence Other topics 12 04-29-2005 08:05 AM

 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:02 AM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.