Red Wine

I had never cared for wine prior to about 1996. All I'd had was cheap red wine from grocery stores, which did nothing for me. Then, I was on a business trip with some coworkers to Santa Rosa, and one of them made a reservation at a steak house and ordered a bottle of nice red wine. I tried it and have been hooked ever since.

White wine doesn't appeal to me as much - I definitely like reds more. I've been through several red phases. First was cabs. Then, I was on a pinot kick for a while, until I figured out that pinot is such a finicky wine that I had to go through 7 or 8 bottles of "crap" (not really crap, it just didn't excite me) before I found one I really liked. Now, I've been on a zinfandel kick for several years.

I've really developed a liking for Sonoma Dry Creek Valley zins. They have a spicy/peppery aspect to them I really like.

The only thing that kind of bummed me out was...I'm single and live alone, so if I open a bottle, I feel compelled to drink the entire bottle. I've never been able to stopper it up and leave it a few days because it doesn't taste right to me afterwards. Just the other day, I bought a can of argon wine preserver from BevMo and only drank a half bottle, sprayed it, and had the rest a couple nights later, and it was great. Tasted like I'd just uncorked it. Now I'm thinking I can enjoy a glass most nights with dinner, and let a bottle last a few days rather than binging on an entire bottle myself.

I would definitely recommend keeping a can of wine preserver handy. Would also help with trying different wines on different nights and mixing it up some.
 
In a wine thread a few months ago, I told of a Chardonnay that I liked enough to soak the bottle and keep the label so I would know to get it again. I often buy inexpensive bottles in grocery stores as I travel, and do not remember where I buy them. I also do not drink whites all that often. Anyway, in that post I told of how I looked for that bottle in the stores that I normally frequent such as Trader Joe's, Fresh-n-Easy, Safeway, etc... and failed to find it. I should have looked on the Web, but somehow did not think of that. I finally found it: a very inexpensive bottle in a chain store.

I recently bought another bottle, but this time was not at all impressed. Why? There's a lot of variations with a generic wine like this, as the bottler buys from different vintners for different batches. And even with name brands, there's of course vintage difference from year to year.

And then, it might be a psychological factor with me too. Now that I know it's inexpensive, I do not have as much regard for it.

By the way, the Trader Joe's two-buck chuck is three-buck chuck outside of CA. As a daily table wine, it's OK with me.
 
Bestwifeever said:
...
Here is a fun Freakonomicsish story from the New Yorker about wine tasting Does All Wine Taste the Same? : The New Yorker

It includes this snippet about the red vs white study at the University of Bordeaux. Apparently none of the experts did a spit take with the fake red whine and proclaimed "Allors, zees ees faux!"
Click to expand...

It makes me want to repeat the experiment with my guests. Can one bleach out red wine to make it "white" too?

Ah, what the heck! None of my relatives and friends are wine snobs anyway. They drink whatever I serve, no question asked (although I do not serve the 3-buck chuck, just so that they will not say "Ah, that's how he could retire early" as if that makes a big difference in my expenses ;) ).
 
Putting red food coloring in white wine adulterates it. How do we know that some unknown chemical reaction isn't taking place? Or being prevented or changed?

I can't imagine the home brewers in the group would frown on allowing somebody to put a coloring agent in their beer, right?
 
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Chuckanut said:
Putting red food coloring in white wine adulterates it. How do we know that some unknown chemical reaction isn't taking place? Or being prevented or changed?

I can't imagine the home brewers in the group would frown on allowing somebody to put a coloring agent in their beer, right?
Click to expand...

That is easy enough to control for (I didn't re-read the study, but I imagine they did this). A simple 'triangle test' - blindly give tasters three glasses - two the same, one different, randomly assigned. Can the tasters identify the 'odd one'?

And that would have also been the way to tell if 'experts could tell a red from a white'. But this idea that they used red descriptors when told to judge what they believed to be a red wine is a whole 'nother thing, and not unexpected at all.


There are beers where the roasted grains are actually added for color, not flavor (cold steeped, or added at the last minutes to pull out the color w/o getting much flavor). A Schwarzbier is an example, and homebrew shops sell Sinimar, a coloring agent for beer:

Weyermann®

Our homebrew club is going to try to brew a 'Blonde Porter'. We plan to try to rinse the color out of the dark grains, w/o rinsing all of the dark-grain flavor.

-ERD50
 
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NW-Bound said:
I do not think I can tell if a Cab is from South America or from Australia, but then I have never really cared. I drink quite indiscriminately when it comes to wine. :)
Click to expand...
You can at least tell whether the wine is from the northern or southern hemisphere by swirling it around in your glass. If it swirls clockwise.... ;)
 
I thought the swirl direction has to be observed as it is going down. :confused: Do I use a mirror or enlist help of DW as an observer?
 
Chez Amethyst is in complete agreement. The local wine store has an app which allows us to search their inventory for "everything under $10.00 with a [wine magazine/winelovers' org] rating of 89 or higher," and it's surprising how many selections turn up. Mostly, at that price, it's whites that get the good ratings. But we have ventured into some tasty Spanish and South American reds, as well. Hey, it's bad enough that only the best chocolate will do - chocolate is much cheaper than wine. We don't want to feel like we need $40 wine.

Amethyst

Ready said:
I think it's a waste of time to train your palate to recognize the subtle differences in red wines. The problem with doing so is that once you develop the ability to distinguish between the different varieties, you will just want to spend more money on them.....

If you spend enough time learning, you might get to the point where nothing less than $40 bottles of wine will do. Why would you want to do that? It just raises the ER budget unnecessarily.
Click to expand...
 
LoneAspen said:
I've really developed a liking for Sonoma Dry Creek Valley zins. They have a spicy/peppery aspect to them I really like.

The only thing that kind of bummed me out was...I'm single and live alone, so if I open a bottle, I feel compelled to drink the entire bottle. I've never been able to stopper it up and leave it a few days because it doesn't taste right to me afterwards. Just the other day, I bought a can of argon wine preserver from BevMo and only drank a half bottle, sprayed it, and had the rest a couple nights later, and it was great. Tasted like I'd just uncorked it. Now I'm thinking I can enjoy a glass most nights with dinner, and let a bottle last a few days rather than binging on an entire bottle myself.

I would definitely recommend keeping a can of wine preserver handy. Would also help with trying different wines on different nights and mixing it up some.
Click to expand...
Before this goes much further, just get the vacuum wine stopper from Crate & Barrel. Probably a lot cheaper (haven't looked at the Argon idea), and works very, very well. DW and I use it at least twice a week to get two dinners out of a bottle.
 
NW-Bound said:
I recently bought another bottle, but this time was not at all impressed. Why? There's a lot of variations with a generic wine like this, as the bottler buys from different vintners for different batches. And even with name brands, there's of course vintage difference from year to year.
Click to expand...

There's a lot to be said for the good "daily drinker." Ours is Eberle's Full Boar Red. We buy it at the winery, usually a couple of cases every year. Retail is $15, but we get it significantly discounted thanks to their generous military discount. Their goal is to make it taste the same year after year, so you never know what the blend for that year is going to be or where the grapes are sourced... nor do we care. It tastes good, is extremely drinkable, and is inexpensive (for us, anyway!).

My dad drank 2-buck chuck for years, still does the 4-buckers at home too. I guess I'm what Ready is talking about: I don't have the taste for those... but I've found many in the $7-15 range that are perfectly fine. Ravenswood Old Vine Zin is one I can get for $6.99 that's pretty good. I haven't spent more than $15 for a bottle at a store in years. Only spend more if it's something I've tasted and really enjoyed.
 
I like pinot noir. If there is a especially dry growing season, I stock up on several varieties from that year.
 
LoneAspen said:
I had never cared for wine prior to about 1996. All I'd had was cheap red wine from grocery stores, which did nothing for me. Then, I was on a business trip with some coworkers to Santa Rosa, and one of them made a reservation at a steak house and ordered a bottle of nice red wine. I tried it and have been hooked ever since.

White wine doesn't appeal to me as much - I definitely like reds more. I've been through several red phases. First was cabs. Then, I was on a pinot kick for a while, until I figured out that pinot is such a finicky wine that I had to go through 7 or 8 bottles of "crap" (not really crap, it just didn't excite me) before I found one I really liked. Now, I've been on a zinfandel kick for several years.

I've really developed a liking for Sonoma Dry Creek Valley zins. They have a spicy/peppery aspect to them I really like.

The only thing that kind of bummed me out was...I'm single and live alone, so if I open a bottle, I feel compelled to drink the entire bottle. I've never been able to stopper it up and leave it a few days because it doesn't taste right to me afterwards. Just the other day, I bought a can of argon wine preserver from BevMo and only drank a half bottle, sprayed it, and had the rest a couple nights later, and it was great. Tasted like I'd just uncorked it. Now I'm thinking I can enjoy a glass most nights with dinner, and let a bottle last a few days rather than binging on an entire bottle myself.

I would definitely recommend keeping a can of wine preserver handy. Would also help with trying different wines on different nights and mixing it up some.
Click to expand...

Those vacuum wine stopper thingies work very very well.
 
NW-Bound said:
In a wine thread a few months ago, I told of a Chardonnay that I liked enough to soak the bottle and keep the label so I would know to get it again. I often buy inexpensive bottles in grocery stores as I travel, and do not remember where I buy them. I also do not drink whites all that often. Anyway, in that post I told of how I looked for that bottle in the stores that I normally frequent such as Trader Joe's, Fresh-n-Easy, Safeway, etc... and failed to find it. I should have looked on the Web, but somehow did not think of that. I finally found it: a very inexpensive bottle in a chain store.

I recently bought another bottle, but this time was not at all impressed. Why? There's a lot of variations with a generic wine like this, as the bottler buys from different vintners for different batches. And even with name brands, there's of course vintage difference from year to year.

And then, it might be a psychological factor with me too. Now that I know it's inexpensive, I do not have as much regard for it.

By the way, the Trader Joe's two-buck chuck is three-buck chuck outside of CA. As a daily table wine, it's OK with me.
Click to expand...
I never expect a vintage wine (from the same winery) to taste the same from one year to the next. Always have to sample before committing! :)
 
heeyy_joe said:
I like pinot noir. If there is a especially dry growing season, I stock up on several varieties from that year.
Click to expand...
I'd say that's a pretty discerning palette. And it took a while to develop that experience as well.
 
audreyh1 said:
Those vacuum wine stopper thingies work very very well.
Click to expand...

I actually tried about three different bottle vacuums from different stores (BevMo, Sur la Table, and...Williams Sonoma I think?), and gave up because none of them worked well for me. I could tell a definite change in the way the wine tasted after a day or two, so gave up on the vacuums.

I've used the argon on two different bottles of wine now, and it tastes the same after a day or two as it did when I opened it, so the argon is working very well for me. It's a little more expensive solution, but well worth it for me to enjoy a bottle of wine over multiple nights.
 
I drink 2 glasses of red wine each evening; usually a Cab or Merlot. It's good for your heart? Since I practice LBYM I really like Yellowtail wine. Last week the base had it on sale for $3.50, so I bought a couple of cases. I'm heading out there this am and if still on sale, will buy another case.

Sent from my AT100 using Early Retirement Forum mobile app
 
Yellowtail's pretty good for the price, just a massive bottling production so they keep costs down.
 
A few comments to add to this great thread:

1. Tastes change - just as your taste preferences for food changes every so often, so will your preferences for wine! Don't be afraid to sample everything now....and do again in a few years. I only used to like cloyingly sweet whites when I first started enjoying wine in my 20s, and then once I hit my 30s, I started to eventually develop an appreciation for subtle tannins that made me run the other direction before. The same for craft brew beer (20s was nothing but Bud Light/Budweiser - although I am in St. Louis, the world headquarters of former Bud ;)

2. As another poster commented, try some wine parties with all bottles hidden to allow everyone to sample blindly. And you can find many wine stores that have free tastings (often during quarterly clearance sales, but some will do them once a month or maybe even every weekend!), many of which will let you sample without knowing the price, so you can see which wine styles/wineries you like without any influence on the price (which hopefully won't turn out to be a bad thing if you like $50+/bottle wines :).

And remember - there's no 'wrong' or 'right' wine to enjoy. And your favorites will probably change over time.

3. Wine aerators - some will scoff at them, but I personally can attest that I have noticed a difference after pouring red wines through an aerator. The aerator helps to quickly, subtly 'soften' the body of the wine so it's slightly smoother when you drink it. The alternative is to open the bottle to let it 'breathe' for 30-90 minutes (or more) before you drink it. You can find expensive ones, but I stick with the $22 variety on Amazon
Amazon.com: Trudeau Aroma Aerating Pourer with Stand: Kitchen & Dining

It sticks right into the bottle. No drips, nothing to hold! (just rinse it out after using it so the wine doesn't stain it over time)
 
MooreBonds said:
3. Wine aerators - some will scoff at them, but I personally can attest that I have noticed a difference after pouring red wines through an aerator. The aerator helps to quickly, subtly 'soften' the body of the wine so it's slightly smoother when you drink it. The alternative is to open the bottle to let it 'breathe' for 30-90 minutes (or more) before you drink it. You can find expensive ones, but I stick with the $22 variety on Amazon
Amazon.com: Trudeau Aroma Aerating Pourer with Stand: Kitchen & Dining

It sticks right into the bottle. No drips, nothing to hold! (just rinse it out after using it so the wine doesn't stain it over time)
Click to expand...
A friend who also like red wine tried the following taste test: Same wine served:
1) from the bottle after standing open for 15 minutes
2) through an aerator immediately after opening
3) from a decanter after standing 15 minutes, and
4) after a minute mixed in the blender then into the decanter.
The blind tasters all choose them in reverse order: 4) best, 1) worst.

Then he tried option 4) for differing qualities. The difference in age of the wine disappeared.
 
kcowan said:
A friend who also like red wine tried the following taste test: Same wine served:
1) from the bottle after standing open for 15 minutes
2) through an aerator immediately after opening
3) from a decanter after standing 15 minutes, and
4) after a minute mixed in the blender then into the decanter.
The blind tasters all choose them in reverse order: 4) best, 1) worst.

Then he tried option 4) for differing qualities. The difference in age of the wine disappeared.
Click to expand...

I'd have a really hard time running a $40+ bottle of wine through a blender. Even if it did appear to taste better, I'd feel I was doing something sacrilegious to it.
 
LoneAspen said:
I'd have a really hard time running a $40+ bottle of wine through a blender. Even if it did appear to taste better, I'd feel I was doing something sacrilegious to it.
Click to expand...
I agree. That probably assures the industry that the $40 price point will not be replaced by $25 and a blender! But the success of aerators seems to indicate there is some hope. Plus once the whole bottle has been blended, you pretty much have to drink it all...:LOL:
 
MooreBonds said:
3. Wine aerators - some will scoff at them, but I personally can attest that I have noticed a difference after pouring red wines through an aerator. The aerator helps to quickly, subtly 'soften' the body of the wine so it's slightly smoother when you drink it. The alternative is to open the bottle to let it 'breathe' for 30-90 minutes (or more) before you drink it. You can find expensive ones, but I stick with the $22 variety on Amazon
Amazon.com: Trudeau Aroma Aerating Pourer with Stand: Kitchen & Dining

It sticks right into the bottle. No drips, nothing to hold! (just rinse it out after using it so the wine doesn't stain it over time)
Click to expand...

Agree that aerating pourers and aerators are useful and make a difference. In addition, decanting for 15 minutes to a couple of hours accomplishes the same. We do a little of both, with decanting being a bit more noticable difference, but far more difficult to clean!
 
audreyh1 said:
Our favorite winery area to visit is the Columbia River Valley in Washington state, from near Yakima all the way to Walla Walla. Amazing big reds. Better value than CA in general.
Click to expand...

+1.
We live 2 hours from Walla Walla. We are seeing this area starting a Napazation. Definitely not a word but the combination of Wash State U having a legit Viticulture program as well as being one of the top 10 in the world hospitality schools is driving some great things in this wine country.
Wash is unique in having over 90% of its production in premium quality varieties.
Totally agree that quality/value relationship beats Cal premiums.
Nwsteve
 
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