Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 03-03-2010, 04:44 PM   #41
Recycles dryer sheets
HsiaoChu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 389
This has turned into a fairly even tempered religious discussion and that's OK.

But the original topic was about a parent who was concerned for the situation of his/her small child who was exposed to very strong adult views on religion in the form of statements by peers, that apparently s/he hadn't prepared the child for.

We really can't help other than the great suggestions made. I wonder if it might be possible to go back to a little bit of discussion on the real point here---- on the view point of the kid, and perhaps how kids might feel when these things happen? I do remember how when these things happened to me adults seemed to be clueless that I would be scared, or maybe they just didn't care.

Z
(I'm a professional counselor who in my soon ending long career have had to help many more than one child blown away exactly by adult issues like this presented vehemently by children his or her age.)
__________________

__________________
HsiaoChu is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 03-03-2010, 04:56 PM   #42
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 13,283
I was brought up a bit different than most others I have met...

I went to church almost every week from when I was young until I would say 12 or 13... my father was going until I was about 6 and people in the church bad mouthed him because he was not giving 'enough' even though he had 6 kids and did not make much money...

I felt like most of the people in church were hypocrites... they did not 'live' like Christians. Some of the deacons (or whatever they were called in our church) were arrested for running a prostitution ring..

One discussion I had with a girl that I liked was kind of like... 'have you been baptised?'... "No"... 'oh, you are damned than'... "Why?" 'because you have not been baptised!'.... "but I lead a Christian life"... 'it does not matter, you are damned'.. "so, if someone has been baptised, but is a mass murder and asked for forgivness just before they die, he is fine?"... 'yes', "but someone who has lead a Christain life, who had not done anything bad in life is damned because he has not been baptised?"... 'yes'... "then I guess I don't believe in your God if the rules are set up like this...." She decided that we could be friends, but that was it since I was damned.....

To the original poster... I would point out that the child who is saying this does not know what they are talking about... they are saying things out of context. But I would probably take them to church a few times so they can make a decision on their own what they want to think. But peer pressure can be very strong. Do not ignore it or she just might do other things because of peer pressure.
__________________

__________________
Texas Proud is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2010, 05:04 PM   #43
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
haha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Hooverville
Posts: 22,386
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zarathu View Post
This has turned into a fairly even tempered religious discussion and that's OK.

But the original topic was about a parent who was concerned for the situation of his/her small child who was exposed to very strong adult views on religion in the form of statements by peers, that apparently s/he hadn't prepared the child for.

We really can't help other than the great suggestions made. I wonder if it might be possible to go back to a little bit of discussion on the real point here---- on the view point of the kid, and perhaps how kids might feel when these things happen? I do remember how when these things happened to me adults seemed to be clueless that I would be scared, or maybe they just didn't care.

Z
(I'm a professional counselor who in my soon ending long career have had to help many more than one child blown away exactly by adult issues like this presented vehemently by children his or her age.)
I agree with this POV. Adults often do not take the time or they lack the ability to see things from the child's perspective. Children are not just miniature adults. Their whole world is experienced differently from the way an adult sees the world. Children need to be protected, and it is the job of their parents to do this.

Ha
__________________
"As a general rule, the more dangerous or inappropriate a conversation, the more interesting it is."-Scott Adams
haha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2010, 05:07 PM   #44
Moderator Emeritus
Martha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: minnesota
Posts: 13,212
Quote:
Originally Posted by ziggy29 View Post
I think some of this depends on the degree to which one takes every word of Scripture as absolutely literally true. Yet some scholars have opined that maybe some of the works are written more like an allegory or a parable (or a "fable") to illustrate how folks should strive to live.

For example, take the book of Jonah. Some pretty heavy-hitting scholars think this may not have been an actual historical event, but rather an instructive tale about obeying God. (For those who aren't familiar with the story, Jonah doesn't obey God's command, God puts wrath on Jonah which includes winding up in the belly of a big fish, and then God's grace allows the fish to expel Jonah and give Jonah a second chance to comply after seeing what God could do.) In reality, the message is more important than the specifics.

The story of Noah and the flood, also some believe, a parable about God's wrath on wickedness. (But why did Noah have to take mosquitoes?)

And then there are the absolute literalists who think the world is 6,000 years old. Is it really clear in Genesis 1 that the reference to a "day" really means the current equivalent of 24 Earth hours? Are we to believe that God had no "poetic license" in providing the inspiration for the scribes to write these accounts? If so, science renders that absurd unless you believe God set up science to contradict Scripture as a test of belief (personally I don't believe that). And starting with "let there be light" (the Big Bang?), the general evolution (yes, I intentionally chose that word) and sequence of developments in subsequent "days" -- cooling of the earth, development of plants and then animals and then humanity -- is fairly similar to what we've discovered about the earth's first few billion years. That was pretty impressive for a people some 3,000 years ago who recorded this stuff before science really had any of those answers. These aren't problematic contradictions unless -- again -- you take every single word of text literally and assume no errors in translation along the way from the original Greek, Hebrew and Aramaic.

I don't intend to persuade anyone here (or recruit or whatever), but in reality I think belief in the Bible only breaks down into a series of serious, intractable contradictions with science if you think every single literary reference is intended to read as historical fact. Just as Shakespeare wrote tragedies and comedies as well as histories, who's to say that every book in the Bible (or every chapter of a book) is history? There are other ways to get the Word of God out than simply citing historical events.

Some literalists and fundamentalists would have me stoned as a heretic, but that's how I see it. Maybe it's an excuse, but it's much easier to reconcile science and religion by allowing that possibility -- that some of the divinely inspired works were intended to send a story with a message rather than simply record history.

(Anyway, I have to be off to prepare for tonight's Lenten services, especially since we have choir practice in less than an hour. )
Enjoy choir practice! Christians of whatever stripe have some really nice music.

I understand and appreciate the substantial difference between literalism and those who take more of an allegorical viewpoint of religious texts.
__________________
.


No more lawyer stuff, no more political stuff, so no more CYA

Martha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2010, 05:09 PM   #45
Moderator Emeritus
Martha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: minnesota
Posts: 13,212
Quote:
Originally Posted by haha View Post
I agree with this POV. Adults often do not take the time or they lack the ability to see things from the child's perspective. Children are not just miniature adults. Their whole world is experienced differently from the way an adult sees the world. Children need to be protected, and it is the job of theor parents to do this.

Ha
Absolutely. That is why knowing the culture of the community the OP lives in is so important.
__________________
.


No more lawyer stuff, no more political stuff, so no more CYA

Martha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2010, 07:34 PM   #46
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,555
I find great comfort in knowing that God is always there for me and will always be there for me. I pray to Him and can turn many of my problems over to Him. Does this mean that I will not have any problems? No, it does not. Does this mean that I will not make any mistakes or sin? No, it does not. I guess that I would be deemed to be a hypocrite by many people, because all humans sin.

I think that it is very sad that young children would instill such a fear in another young child. I think that it is also sad that that young child does not focus on our loving God. I would certainly hope that no adult was behind this fear being spread to other young children. I was fortunate that I was never exposed to this type of thing in school.

However, I can remember my own DD coming home from school and crying. One time it was because her "best" friend, who also went to our church, told her that she could not be friends with her anymore, because she was "best" friends with someone else. I am sure that this child's mother did not tell her to go to school and tell my daughter this and probably had no idea this was even going on. Kids, and it seemed especially little girls, could be very mean to each other. I had a boy and a girl and this was my experience. I can remember my DD telling me that she had to go to the counselor one time in third grade along with some other girls, because of the way that they were treating each other.

I did not dwell on talking to my children about Hell, any more than I dwelt on talking to them about murderers, terroists, molestors, etc. However, I did tell both of my children that adults could do bad things to children and that they were to tell me even if the person doing it were a preacher, boy scout leader, police officer, teacher, etc. I also stressed that this would probably never, ever happen, but if it did, they should tell me or another adult right away.

I agree with some of the others, that you should expose your daughter to religion at a place that does not scare them to death and talk to her about it. I wanted my children exposed to all aspects of life through at least reading about it, so they would not have an ignorance to it.
__________________
Dreamer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2010, 07:45 PM   #47
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 11,018
Excellent thread.

I don't have kids, but if I did, I would want them to learn about the basic beliefs of all major religions and would want them to respect people of all faiths. Presenting religious faith in a punitive way could do a great deal of damage to a child's development and self esteem. I think the ideal environment would be a diverse and supportive classroom in which a child could develop friendships with children of many faiths. Unfortunately such a place may not be easy to find in the OP's neighbourhood.
__________________
Meadbh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2010, 08:47 PM   #48
Full time employment: Posting here.
MuirWannabe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 672
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreamer View Post
I find great comfort in knowing that God is always there for me and will always be there for me. I pray to Him and can turn many of my problems over to Him. Does this mean that I will not have any problems? No, it does not. Does this mean that I will not make any mistakes or sin? No, it does not. I guess that I would be deemed to be a hypocrite by many people, because all humans sin.

As has been said many times before. If you ever find a church without hypocrites then don't join it. Otherwise you would ruin it.

Only one perfect person ever lived.
__________________
“Of all the paths you take in life, make sure a few of them are dirt.” John Muir
MuirWannabe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2010, 09:01 PM   #49
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
simple girl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,505
When I was a child I was friends with a very religious family. They took me to a service one night, and I was subjected to watching a movie depicting hell. It was very graphic (for a child to watch). I specifically remember it showing people with worms crawling into and out of their ears and eyes. I was petrified. After the movie they asked people to come up and be "saved" from all of this.

I had trouble sleeping for weeks - nightmares. I cried myself to sleep many nights and thought I must be the worst possible sinner ever. These types of things really do deeply affect children.
__________________
simple girl
less stuff, more time

(49, married; DH 53. I am fully retired as of 2015 (well ok, I still work part-time but only because I love the job and have complete freedom to call off if I want to travel with hubby for work), DH hopes to fully retire 2018 when he turns 55 to access 401K penalty-free...although he may decide to do part-time consulting)
simple girl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2010, 12:31 AM   #50
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: North of Montana
Posts: 2,753
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meadbh View Post
Excellent thread.

I don't have kids, but if I did, I would want them to learn about the basic beliefs of all major religions and would want them to respect people of all faiths. Presenting religious faith in a punitive way could do a great deal of damage to a child's development and self esteem. I think the ideal environment would be a diverse and supportive classroom in which a child could develop friendships with children of many faiths. Unfortunately such a place may not be easy to find in the OP's neighbourhood.
You and I are Canadian. This is a bit of a non-scientific observation, but Canadians are a lot less religious and/or judgmental than our southern neighbours. I was at a business dinner in NC where the guy next to me started the conversation with "what church do you belong to". That would never happen in Canada.
I agree that you (or your kids) should have a reasonable knowledge of other peoples' religious beliefs. If not, you can hardly point out their fallacies.
I'm a bit of a cross between an agnostic and an atheist (as in, I don't know and I don't care). I do know a lot about many beliefs (originally, the better to mock them). Our kids were never subjected to any religion before their teen years. Both were caught up in it (peer pressure) during their teen years. I did share what little I knew at that time (it wasn't to encourage them). Now at 27 and 30, one (DD) is even more militantly anti-religion than I am. The other is a church-goer (I suspect, largely due to his DW). However, leave me alone and I will leave you alone. Seems to work for us.
Teaching your kids to accept other's beliefs is something any good parent should do (IMHO). Some creeds have a problem with this since their "duty" is to save the "rest". How does the poor OP handle this? That's what this thread us all about.
__________________
There are two kinds of people in the world: those who can extrapolate conclusions from insufficient data and ..
kumquat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2010, 12:46 AM   #51
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 11,018
Quote:
Originally Posted by kumquat View Post
You and I are Canadian. This is a bit of a non-scientific observation, but Canadians are a lot less religious and/or judgmental than our southern neighbours. I was at a business dinner in NC where the guy next to me started the conversation with "what church do you belong to". That would never happen in Canada.
That's why I chose to become a Canadian!

Back to the OP's problem. I think he must find a way to educate his children about views other than those they are exposed to at school. Most importantly, he and DW can be role models for respect and tolerance.
__________________
Meadbh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2010, 01:04 AM   #52
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: North of Montana
Posts: 2,753
The OP and his DW can try to educate their DK about religion . Unfortunately, the "saved" can do a lot to hijack that education. That's what peer pressure means. Hopefully, they can deal with it.

BTW, OOC, from where did you come and were religious practices part of your decisions?
__________________
There are two kinds of people in the world: those who can extrapolate conclusions from insufficient data and ..
kumquat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2010, 01:14 AM   #53
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
kyounge1956's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 2,171
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zarathu View Post
(snip) I agree that there is probably a lot of bashing of adults who are especially religious, sharing their faith with others. I seem to remember that the New Testament actually demanded this.(snip)

Z
You are correct. Jesus told his followers to "make disciples of all nations, baptizing them...and teaching them to obey everything I commanded you." I think the way some of my fellow-believers try to carry out this command is, unfortunately, counter-productive, and may even cause the hearers to harden their hearts against the Gospel message.
__________________
kyounge1956 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2010, 10:39 AM   #54
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
RonBoyd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Denver, Colorado
Posts: 5,280
You know, all of your answers can be found in the many works of fiction provided by the Judiac/Christian/Islam religion. Or you can have all of your research done for you:

Answers in Genesis

as an example:

Shouldn’t the Woman (Eve) Have Been Shocked that a Serpent Spoke? - Answers in Genesis

How could one possibly argue with this:
Quote:
God also programmed language into Adam and Eve (since they were able to speak immediately with God), which would have included some words that describe animals and their capabilities. So it shouldn’t have been shocking to see or hear something for the first time if you’re already “programmed” to know about something like talking animals.
__________________
"It's tough to make predictions, especially when it involves the future." ~Attributed to many
"In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. But, in practice, there is." ~(perhaps by) Yogi Berra
"Those who have knowledge, don't predict. Those who predict, don't have knowledge."~ Lau tzu
RonBoyd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2010, 10:51 AM   #55
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Leonidas's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Where the stars at night are big and bright
Posts: 2,847
Well, the even-temper and decency of the conversation was nice while it lasted.
__________________
There is no pleasure in having nothing to do; the fun is having lots to do and not doing it. - Andrew Jackson
Leonidas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2010, 11:18 AM   #56
Moderator Emeritus
Martha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: minnesota
Posts: 13,212
We can get back there Leo. I hope the OP comes back and tell us more about the community she lives in and the makeup of the school. That might lead to some more ideas.
__________________
.


No more lawyer stuff, no more political stuff, so no more CYA

Martha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2010, 11:32 AM   #57
Moderator Emeritus
Bestwifeever's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 16,375
All parents imho have an obligation to know what exactly their children are exposed to and how it fits in with their family's belief system. I think the 7 year old daughter in the OP is too young to sort things out on her own, whether religion, financial style (imagine if another child told her she was poor because her parents didn't buy her Ugg boots), nutrition (again imagine another child telling her she should eat more Hostess snacks instead of apples), movies, whatever. I think it's perfectly okay to simply tell your children that your family believes something different than another child's family and then plan some other activities to do with her friends.
__________________
“Would you like an adventure now, or would you like to have your tea first?” J.M. Barrie, Peter Pan
Bestwifeever is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2010, 12:08 PM   #58
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: near L.A.
Posts: 173
thanks for everyone's response, I've learned something.

I like the idea of taking my DD 'shopping around' in the various religious establishments(I think of this as an immunization process), we've a couple of Buddhist temples and quite a few churches nearby. I agree we, the parents, should get involved personnally so DD won't be caught in the middle of it all by herself. I intend to keep our household religious free, after reaching adult age, it's her own decision.

Should have been more precise in my original post. We live in a city near L.A(but we don't own MacMension or big suv's), so luckily, we're not facing pressures from the community. The peer pressure mainly come from DD's two best friends in school. I think what they told her is more earth-shattering than I'd imagine. As an adult, I'd just laugh it off, but to a 8 year old, it's quite different. I should start looking at things from her frame of reference more often now. Glad I posted my question here.
__________________
ER_Hopeful is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2010, 12:19 PM   #59
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
simple girl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,505
Your daughter is lucky to have you as a parent.
__________________
simple girl
less stuff, more time

(49, married; DH 53. I am fully retired as of 2015 (well ok, I still work part-time but only because I love the job and have complete freedom to call off if I want to travel with hubby for work), DH hopes to fully retire 2018 when he turns 55 to access 401K penalty-free...although he may decide to do part-time consulting)
simple girl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2010, 12:40 PM   #60
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Brat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 5,914
Often these experiences give parents an opportunity to discuss a subject with our children that wasn't on our radar.
__________________

__________________
Duck bjorn.
Brat is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
...and now for the religious news. mickeyd Other topics 0 05-09-2009 07:35 PM
Kids Are Under Peer Pressure............ FinanceDude Other topics 23 01-22-2008 11:23 PM
Questioning oneself? Peer pressure? Sam Other topics 26 05-17-2007 04:43 PM
ER religious preference azanon Other topics 156 03-10-2005 08:32 AM

 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:29 AM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.