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Old 10-10-2013, 05:15 PM   #21
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W2R, those lights are plenty bright so you may consider daylight balanced CFL's. They can be hard to find even at the big-box hardware stores. Look for the color temperature, it's always in the tiny print, but it's there, and it should be between 5,000K and 5,200K. The "K" is for the Kelvin color temperature scale. Part of the issue is that the fluorescents don't put out a smooth color of light (incandescents don't either but it's not as bad) but instead have "spikes" of light in certain color bands. That's why everything looks orange under sodium-vapor lights in parking lots because the primary color they emit is orange.
Oh good! I am glad that I will be able to get CFL's or LED's that are bright enough for me like incandescants. I probably just picked the wrong one. I just got out the package of my present too-dim CFL. It is 2700K, a soft white instant-on bulb with 1280 lumens and I need more light than that even though it says it replaces a 75W incandescent bulb. To me, the quality of light seems faint and yellowish like candlelight and just too dim. I might try an LED at some point, too, since price is less of an issue to me than being able to SEE....

Growing old is the pits! Eventually I will have to get cataract surgery which should help, too, although my doctor says I am not quite there yet (almost but not quite).
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Old 10-10-2013, 05:30 PM   #22
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We went all CFL many years ago; the only incandescent bulbs we have left are the little ones in the dining room chandelier. We are gradually switching to LEDs as and when the CFLs burn out. I like the light quality of the LEDs.
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Old 10-10-2013, 07:24 PM   #23
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We went all CFL many years ago; the only incandescent bulbs we have left are the little ones in the dining room chandelier..........
Me too - ten little 25 watt bulbs. I chafe at the power it sucks up, but I can power it for decades for what 10 LED bulbs would cost. CFLs would look ridiculous.
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Old 10-10-2013, 07:26 PM   #24
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... I've also got a small drop-light I use to heat a troublesome water pump switch when it gets cold in the garage--a CFL wouldn't do us much good there. ...
While researching the new laws, I see there is an exemption for 'rough service' bulbs. Those make good heaters, as they actually put out fewer lumens/watt, but they provide longer life. This means they are somewhat less efficient than normal white or soft-white bulbs.

In the 'unintended consequences' area, I found a supplier of 'newcandescents' - legal incandescent bulbs. Of course, there is nothing new about them, they are just the exempted rough service bulbs re-branded. Which means that some people will be using even less efficient bulbs than they were before. The rough service bulbs give a yellow-orange-ish light (like a bulb on a dimmer), so some people won't care for them.


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I don't like being told which light bulbs I can buy.
Yes, it's really insulting and arrogant to be told that someone in far off Washington D.C. can make a better decision than I can about what light bulb I put in what socket in my house. How many legislators could even give an accurate definition of a 'watt' or a 'lumen'? What's next, are they going to mandate our AA and WR?

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Old 10-10-2013, 07:58 PM   #25
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Look for 43W halogen Edison base bulbs. These are similar to the old incandescent bulbs in light quality, and are very good for intermittent service or short duty cycle bulbs. The filament and envelope construction are such that the bulb has a higher "black body temperature" so it puts out more light per watt than the old tungsten bulbs. Many of these are being built with the old incandescent style glass around the light so funky accessories like lampshades that clipped on the bulb still work.

CFL bulbs work better for lights that are on for hours at a time (if you get one with a decent looking phosphor). LED bulbs are pretty pricy for the functionality, but I do have one (1) 2.5 watt LED light installed where I needed a modest standing light on 24/7.
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Old 10-10-2013, 10:03 PM   #26
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Seems like most of our tenants don't really bother changing bulbs - I find it weird that people will live in a place as it gets darker and darker, but it's not uncommon to replace 10 bulbs in a one bedroom apartment at move-out.
Maybe they use the bulbs until they burn out, keep them somewhere while they use good CFLs/LEDs that they bought, then put your old bulbs back when they move out? I sure wouldn't leave my landlord an LED bulb that I'd bought.
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Old 10-10-2013, 10:22 PM   #27
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Yes, it's really insulting and arrogant to be told that someone in far off Washington D.C. can make a better decision than I can about what light bulb I put in what socket in my house. How many legislators could even give an accurate definition of a 'watt' or a 'lumen'? What's next, are they going to mandate our AA and WR?

-ERD50
The powers that be want to build fewer power plants, and this is part of their plan. That's a good goal, actually.

The first incandescent light was created only in 1802 but wasn't improved enough for commercial use until 1880. Not that long ago in the scheme of things. Don't take electric light for granted.
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Old 10-10-2013, 10:50 PM   #28
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Do you take your burnt out CFLs back to HomeDepot. ? I went in with some,plus two long fluorescents . One guy said no they didn't take them
then someone else said ok and put them behind the counter.
Hope they didn't end up in the dumpster.
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Old 10-10-2013, 10:52 PM   #29
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I don't really like having them banned either. I realize that for reasons of safety some products need to be banned or regulated but I think this wasn't one that needed to be banned.

That said - I don't think I have any incandescents left. It is all either CFLs or LEDs. I much prefer the LEDs and am slowly replacing CFLs with LEDs.
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Old 10-10-2013, 10:57 PM   #30
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We only have one cfl bulb in our house that was a giveaway from the electric company, I think. DH just keeps buying regular old light bulbs as needed. He is going to be in for a surprise soon when he can't find any. The cfl that we do have, in a lamp near our front door, is probably not strong enough so it always seems too dim.

We do have some LED bulbs in a new bathroom fixture and a new little chandelier in our kitchen. I like the light from those.

I think we will probably just skip over the cfl stage (like we missed several generations of countertop surfaces in the 35 years it took us to redo our kitchen) and go straight to LEDs when DH can no longer find incandescents.
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Old 10-10-2013, 11:05 PM   #31
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Maybe they use the bulbs until they burn out, keep them somewhere while they use good CFLs/LEDs that they bought, then put your old bulbs back when they move out? I sure wouldn't leave my landlord an LED bulb that I'd bought.
Could be - I notice that CFLs that I put in areas I want light all the time for the tenants tend to disappear, sometimes showing back up in tenant's apartments after they move out, often in ugly inappropriate places. Feels like most of our tenants wouldn't buy a light bulb, much less a CFL.
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Old 10-10-2013, 11:51 PM   #32
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I've pretty much switched over to mostly LED, then CFL.
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Old 10-11-2013, 10:15 AM   #33
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My house has a dimmer that ramps up to the desire brightness when you turn it on, and ramps down when you turn it off. With CFLs, the bulb just oscillated between on and off. I looked up the specs on the dimmer and it must have a load of 40w or more. CFLs and LEDs are not going to work, at least with this particular brand/model of dimmer.
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Old 10-11-2013, 11:14 AM   #34
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My house has a dimmer that ramps up to the desire brightness when you turn it on, and ramps down when you turn it off. With CFLs, the bulb just oscillated between on and off. I looked up the specs on the dimmer and it must have a load of 40w or more. CFLs and LEDs are not going to work, at least with this particular brand/model of dimmer.
I have a timer that is similar, it replaces the wall switch for my porch lights, and it needs to have a resistive load (a standard bulb is resistive, others are not) to keep the timer going while the lights are 'off'. Essentially, a little trickle current through the 'off' bulb filament drives the timer. Since there are multiple lights on that timer, I just keep one with a standard bulb in it. You might be able to do this, or just replace the dimmer with a newer type.

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The powers that be want to build fewer power plants, and this is part of their plan. That's a good goal, actually.
And if that is the goal, there are far better ways to go about it than to micro-manage my light bulb selection. I've got a report from the utility company that shows I'm in the lowest quintile of electric users in my neighborhood. I'm less than half the average, and it appears that that top quintile is using roughly 4x what I am. I think I'm doing OK w/o any 'help' and with a bunch of ancient bulbs in a bunch of low-use sockets.

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The first incandescent light was created only in 1802 but wasn't improved enough for commercial use until 1880. Not that long ago in the scheme of things. Don't take electric light for granted.
I'm not sure what the timing has to do with it. The most modern car still has wheels, and uses screws and other very old developments. Bottom line is that a standard, cheap incandescent makes a lot of sense for some applications. So I use them there.

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Old 10-11-2013, 11:24 AM   #35
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One added comment to this stupid ban. It has actually stymied innovation.

Light bulb manufacturers developed an improved incandescent. However, it isn't profitable to bring them to market, because they couldn't get their ROI before even tighter laws went into effect (they are better, but not as efficient as CFL/LED). So consumers were deprived of a better bulb for those places where incandescent might be the best choice.

Instead, some people will use those legal 'rough service' bulbs, which are even less efficient than standard incandescent bulbs.

I guess that's progress?


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Old 10-11-2013, 11:52 AM   #36
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Lots of "generalizations" in the OP...I'd enjoy seeing data to corroborate some of those claims.

Beginning many years ago, we converted every bulb we could in our house to CFL (appliances the notable exception), and recently put one LED flood in our kitchen to see how we like it. After realizing that the really cheap CFLs did not quite live up their published average life numbers, we started buying brand name CFLs and we've been very pleased with the lower total cost with CFLs. The CFL in our master closet (probably our first) lasted 11 years before it died.

Here is a comparison using all comparable GE low cost versions (Home Depot pricing), using all their published data assuming 15,000 hours use - trying for apples to apples. We don't miss incandescent bulbs at all, and we really like the one LED in our kitchen A LOT, there will be more in our future as they do come on quicker and provide "nicer" light in our view. YMMV
GE DescriptionWattsLifeQty UsedCost eaKWH $KWH UsedBulb CostElectricityTotal CostBreakeven *
Dbl Life 60W Soft White Incand 6-pk6020007.5$0.73$0.10900$5.46$90.00$95.46na
Gen Purp 15W Soft White CFL 2-pk1580001.875$4.99$0.10225$9.35$22.50$31.85@950 hrs
Reveal 11W A19 LED11150001$13.97$0.10165$13.97$16.50$30.47@2700 hrs
* Where full cost of (more expensive CFL/LED) bulb is offset by savings in electricity. It's not necessary (at all) to outlive the bulb...

And there are many exceptions re: incandescents that will still be available (presumably until there are suitable replacements eventually)...
Quote:
There are 22 types of traditional incandescent lamps that are exempt. DOE will monitor sales of these exempted lamp types after the legislation is implemented. If it is determined that of any one of these exempted lamp types doubles in sales, EISA requires DOE to establish an energy conservation standard for the particular lamp type. This provision will prohibit any one of these exempted lamp types from taking market share from the general service lamps that are affected by the EISA efficiency standards.
  • Appliance lamp
  • Black light lamp
  • Bug lamp
  • Colored lamp
  • Infrared lamp
  • Left-hand thread lamp
  • Marine lamp
  • Marine's signal service lamp
  • Mine service lamp
  • Plant light lamp
  • Reflector lamp
  • Rough service lamp
  • Shatter-resistant lamp (including shatter-proof & shatter-protected)
  • Sign service lamp
  • Silver bowl lamp
  • Showcase lamp
  • 3-way incandescent lamp
  • Traffic signal lamp
  • Vibration service lamp
  • G shape lamp (as defined in ANSI C78.20-2003 and C79.1-2002) with a diameter of 5" or more
  • T shape lamp (as defined in ANSI C78.20-2003 and C79.1-2002) and that uses no more than 40W or has a length of more than 10"
  • B, BA, CA, F, G16-1/2, G-25, G-30, S, or M-14 lamp (as defined in ANSI C78.20-2003 and C79.1-2002) of 40W or less
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Old 10-11-2013, 03:49 PM   #37
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Lots of "generalizations" in the OP...I'd enjoy seeing data to corroborate some of those claims. ...
What specifically don't you agree with in the OP? Did he 'generalize'? He said that the CFLs/LEDs are good for some uses.

Your chart is exactly why I have CFLs in most of my high use sockets.

But I just did a quick count (and I know I missed some), and I have easily 30 sockets that are on for only a few minutes per week, some of those are closets and attic, almost never on.

And about 30 more that are on for minutes at a time a few times a day (hall, bathroom, some bedroom lights). If I'm really generous and say those 60 are on an average of 6M/day, that's 26 years to hit your 950 hour break even, longer than I expect to live in this house. And I'd be out $240 to fill all those sockets (now add in $9.60/year opportunity cost at 4%!).

Some of those could be served with a legal , lower eff% 'rough service' bulb (not all, in closet you might want a whiter light). But those 4x a regular bulb. That's not a lot of dollars, but it's aggravating to be mandated what I can and can't put in he sockets in my house when I've made an educated determination for myself. Doesn't the govt have better things to do?

A sI mentioned earlier, my electric bill is among the lowest in the neighborhood. And I do that with an electric clothes dryer (gas is more typical), I've got an old extra refrigerator and an old extra freezer running, and they are of the vintage that every article says you should get rid of, and utilities may pay to take away. But they only use a few $ per month more than the new ones - or maybe less, since I don't have ice-makers attached (which are not included in the utility cost of refrigerators!). And I generally avoid 'high efficiency' appliances, as the extra cost/complexity does not make sense for me.

Rather than the govt telling me how to save energy and making me pay more for things I don't want , maybe they should pay me to show other people how to save energy?

-ERD50
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Old 10-11-2013, 04:41 PM   #38
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Have a very impressive stash of Reveal bulbs in all sizes, most of which have doubled in cost over the past 18 months or so. Figure if i could sell them at current retail I could afford that beach home and a bunch of candles.
Meanwhile, they live in the attic next to my two Beta Max VCR's I tucked away.
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Old 10-11-2013, 04:46 PM   #39
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Thanks for the reminder. I stocked up awhile back but am going to reinforce the pile.
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Old 10-11-2013, 04:54 PM   #40
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Have a very impressive stash of Reveal bulbs in all sizes, most of which have doubled in cost over the past 18 months or so. Figure if i could sell them at current retail I could afford that beach home and a bunch of candles. Meanwhile, they live in the attic next to my two Beta Max VCR's I tucked away.
The Reveals are awesome light bulbs. Maybe there is an LED equivalent.

ETA: why yes there are:

GE Reveal Light Bulbs | GE Lighting North America
http://www.gelighting.com/LightingWe...l/light-bulbs/
GE reveal® LED bulbs illuminate a color enhanced spectrum of light with the added benefits of long-life, up to 80% energy savings compared to incandescent ...
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