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Return of the military SERB...
Old 09-26-2006, 04:42 PM   #1
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Return of the military SERB...

Hey, Samclem, you were right... here it comes!

"Air Force officials will convene a Selective Early Retirement Board Jan. 8 at the Air Force Personnel Center to balance the excess of officers in the Colonel and Lieutenant Colonel ranks.* Officers selected by the SERB for early retirement must apply for a voluntary retirement date of no later than Sept. 1, 2007.* To preclude SERB consideration, SERB-eligible officers must submit a retirement application by Dec. 15 and have it approved by Jan. 1.* For more information about the SERB and volunteer separation opportunities, visit the AFPC SERB Website (http://www.afpc.randolph.af.mil/rets...ENT/SERB07.htm) or call the Air Force Contact Center at (800) 616-3775."

"Balance." "Voluntary no later than." "SERB eligible." "Force shaping." Gosh I miss military-speak.
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Re: Return of the military SERB...
Old 09-26-2006, 06:51 PM   #2
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Re: Return of the military SERB...

Well there is more than this going on. They are not getting the numbers they are looking for. Plus it seems they are going to accellerate the 40,000 leaving and they are rewickering the career field numbers for the voluntery seperation. I am hoping they put the early retirement option in the 2008 plan.

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Re: Return of the military SERB...
Old 09-27-2006, 07:10 AM   #3
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Re: Return of the military SERB...

I always thought they should have allowed SSgt's to retire between 15 and 19 years. Making TSgt did not extend you mandatory retirement date so to me it seemed rather pointless. Once the person made TSgt they had to serve the 20 before they could retire.
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Re: Return of the military SERB...
Old 09-27-2006, 11:16 AM   #4
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Re: Return of the military SERB...

Quote:
I always thought they should have allowed SSgt's to retire between 15 and 19 years. Making TSgt did not extend you mandatory retirement date so to me it seemed rather pointless. Once the person made TSgt they had to serve the 20 before they could retire.
TSgt USED to be allowed to go 23 yrs. They chopped that down to 20 in the late 80's to squeeze people out. E-7's got chopped from 26 to 24 etc. At several points since then they have been handing out 2 yr extensions during which people were allowed to compete for promotion. My girlfreind was "due to expire" as a TSgt but took a 2 yr extension, made E-7 and still ended up with almost 26 yrs of total service.

They just dont know how to manage their personnel
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Re: Return of the military SERB...
Old 09-27-2006, 04:34 PM   #5
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Re: Return of the military SERB...

So - what is the incentive?
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Re: Return of the military SERB...
Old 09-27-2006, 04:45 PM   #6
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Re: Return of the military SERB...

Quote:
Originally Posted by virginia
So - what is the incentive?
The only SERB incentive is to go quietly before you're ejected.

Or you could take your chances... as in the conversations that many O-6s had with their assignment officers in the mid-1990s: "$#^% you, I'll take my chances."

It made for some really interesting staff meetings when the various O-6s started competing with each other even more viciously to prove their worth for the flag officer's special performance evaluation that went in their service records just before the SERB. As an O-4 you learned to hide in your office so that you didn't accidentally get trampled when the elephants danced.

The reality is that the smart O-6s will leave now to start their defense contractor careers before the employment halls are full of freshly-SERBed 40-somethings. The dumber O-6s will do what they've always done... hang around to see what happens next.
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Re: Return of the military SERB...
Old 09-27-2006, 05:08 PM   #7
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Re: Return of the military SERB...

I think that happens at all ranks. Back in the dark ages of the draw downs of the '90's the smart enlisteds took the money and got out. Many went to work for companies making as much as they were in the military, at least on the Air Force side they did.
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Re: Return of the military SERB...
Old 09-28-2006, 08:32 PM   #8
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Re: Return of the military SERB...

Wait a minute....They get some kind of monetary incentive right? Or are these guys already over 20 years TIS?
I remember the 90's drawdowns. I was in at that point (around '97 or '98) and saw several E5's and E6's getting out and thinking "oh, if only that were me I'd take the money and RUN!" Funny how your attitude changes, huh?
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Re: Return of the military SERB...
Old 09-28-2006, 11:04 PM   #9
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Re: Return of the military SERB...

I am clueless about military staff management, but tell me why in a period of staffing needs would they want to offer early-outs or run a rif?

Do they expect a big draw-down next year??
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Re: Return of the military SERB...
Old 09-29-2006, 08:23 AM   #10
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Re: Return of the military SERB...

It is not much better than the early 70's. Army O3's and 04's that lacked some "ticket"; mostly civilian education level (which, at the time, was a very convinenent discriminator) got put off active duty with a check for about $15,000. Of course they reverted to reserve (not on AD) status but most would never find a paying reserve job. The 04's were really hurt pretty bad as most were 32 to 38 years of age, married with a couple of young kids. Happened to many other ranks, especially the enlisted through a program called the "Qualitative Management Program, QMP for short. (0 money and just a bar to renlistment). We sure did not need all of the people we had in the military post-VN and it was a great way to save money. These programs come and go by other names but the objective is, more or less, mostly more, to only cut numbers. Sometimes they are to cut the bulges in the officer ranks; which seems to be the purpose of this particular AF program.
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Re: Return of the military SERB...
Old 09-29-2006, 09:39 AM   #11
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Re: Return of the military SERB...

Quote:
Originally Posted by virginia
Wait a minute....They get some kind of monetary incentive right? Or are these guys already over 20 years TIS?
Monetary incentive-- that's pretty funny!

Luckily Title X requires retaining anyone over 18 years on active duty until 20, or making an early-retirement program available to all in that category. So the SERB can only consider those who are over 20, but those SERBed just get the regular retirement benefits. Of course if you take your chances with the SERB and get to stay on active duty then your assignment officer will no doubt be calling you on Monday to discuss your emergent urgent unaccompanied tour in Korea.

I remember a briefer in the mid-1990s stating that the SERB would start looking at records on Monday (of a five-day board) and say "OK, that guy's a valuable asset who deserves to stay on active duty. Who's next?" By Wednesday they'd realize that they'd only set aside 25% of the total number they were supposed to SERB, and by Friday they'd be looking for any flimsy excuse to SERB someone ("Hey, he hasn't updated his official photo in three years-- he might be fat!"). A guy in the audience asked "How do they decide what records to look at first?" The briefer said "It's all alphabetical order."

Everyone in the room turned to look at Dave Zacharias...

Quote:
Originally Posted by virginia
I remember the 90's drawdowns. I was in at that point (around '97 or '98) and saw several E5's and E6's getting out and thinking "oh, if only that were me I'd take the money and RUN!" Funny how your attitude changes, huh?
I watched some of that attitude at a training command-- VSI-separating O-3s were rolling into the parking lot in their new BMWs, choosing among their Silicon Valley startup offers, and feeling sorry for the guys getting orders to department head school.

Unfortunately in 2001 we started getting calls from those same guys-- "Anyone need a Reservist available for extended active duty?"

Meanwhile I was mystified that my three early retirement requests were turned down because of the urgent need for O-4 submariners, but I wasn't sent to sea duty because I wasn't considered promotable. There was plenty to do at the training commands, though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brat
I am clueless about military staff management, but tell me why in a period of staffing needs would they want to offer early-outs or run a rif?
Do they expect a big draw-down next year??
It's more of a realignment than a drawdown. The Air Force needs more grunts, fewer senior managers, more fighters, and fewer rear echelon types. For example they've been trying to cut down on personnel managers for nearly two years now, and they may be actually separating some of those junior officers (with the required involuntary separation pay). If people aren't able or willing to convert from a field that's been determined to be "overmanned" to a new "critical skill" field then they're shown the door in one way or another.

In the last 30 years, as the equipment has become more reliable & automated, personnel costs have become a bigger & bigger piece of the budget. For example several classes of Navy ships could run their engine rooms essentially unmanned, the way the merchant fleets do, but there are concerns about damage control and combat manning. So manpower is kept around to watch the computers that are monitoring the equipment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Army Guy
It is not much better than the early 70's. Army O3's and 04's that lacked some "ticket"; mostly civilian education level (which, at the time, was a very convinenent discriminator) got put off active duty with a check for about $15,000. Of course they reverted to reserve (not on AD) status but most would never find a paying reserve job.
Anyone leaving active duty before 20 for the Reserves in the Oahu area has been finding plenty of work at major staffs like PACOM and PACFLT. The fly in the ointment, of course, is that they might also find themselves mobilized to the desert.

Next week starts a new fiscal year, with the rumor that 25,000 Navy & AF Reservists are going to be mobilized to backfill Army Reservists completing their mobilizations. "It's really different this time" in that all three services are starting to regard logistics & security as a joint duty, not service specific. So Navy Supply Corps (& AF Finance Battalion?) officers will be standing in the desert handing out a lot of Army combat gear while AF & Navy enlisted will be guarding the perimeters formerly manned by soldiers.
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Re: Return of the military SERB...
Old 09-30-2006, 06:51 PM   #12
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Re: Return of the military SERB...

I read somewhere that they were considering a early retirement option for military with over 10 or 11 years of AD service. The service member would get their retirement check at 62 just like the reserves. Sounds interesting but not sure how that will fly with the current deployments to Iraq, Afganistan, and any other place they decide to go.
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Re: Return of the military SERB...
Old 09-30-2006, 07:15 PM   #13
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Re: Return of the military SERB...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arif
I read somewhere that they were considering a early retirement option for military with over 10 or 11 years of AD service. The service member would get their retirement check at 62 just like the reserves. Sounds interesting but not sure how that will fly with the current deployments to Iraq, Afganistan, and any other place they decide to go.
That rumor's apparently flying around the Air Force, too. Keep us posted!

There was a Navy TERA in 1994 that may have been coupled with a voluntary separation incentive. As soon as that program was announced, every O-4 who'd been passed over for O-5 (yet who'd been promised continutation to 20 YOS) was notified that they'd be retired at the end of the fiscal year-- if I remember right, only six months' warning. The fine print in their continuation orders said "active duty until retirement eligible", so when TERA made them eligible-- some as little as 15 years-- they were out on the street despite everyone interpreting the agreement as 20. True, they had all the regular retirement benefits but IIRC retired pay was $17K/year instead of $27K/year.

The last Navy TERA in 1997 was aimed at O-4s (especially if they hadn't selected for O-5) and O-3s with enough commissioned service to retire at rank. Minimum years of service was again 15 but by then some of the communities (like the submarine force) had cut too deep already and weren't taking volunteers.

Social Security starts as early as 62 but Reserve/NG retirements start at age 60. There's been perpetual legislation proposed for the last five years to lower it as early as age 55 but it hasn't passed any of the authorization bills yet.
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Re: Return of the military SERB...
Old 09-30-2006, 08:45 PM   #14
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Re: Return of the military SERB...

I heard that rumor too, but I think that rumor was circulating early in the year. I did some research about a month ago on it, just to check it out, and I think it must be dead in the water.
The reason for the 10 year option would be to retain servicemen and women who are getting out after a first or second enlistment. Not a few of these folks are doing two or three combat tours in 4-6 years, and are wanting out. It is almost criminal when you think about it, that these heroes (and I mean that, I'm not being sarcastic) leave with nothing. Look at what they've given up, and nobody really knows the baggage that they leave with....
I think that part of the plan is to try and work it also, so that people will have targeted bonuses after 20 years, and try to do away with the 20 year retirement. You could still retire at 20, with the same incentives, but the bonuses would keep people in longer. Personally, I think it would take years for the 20 year mindset to go away. From the minute you decide that this career path is for you, most people are looking forward to the day when they can retire and have more independence in life (or at least have the perception of more independence, I think most people keep working).
As for these O4-O6, SERB them away. No matter what happens, they will leave with a generous income, and the ones that really want to stay in are probably doing the right things, and contributing their part.
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Re: Return of the military SERB...
Old 10-01-2006, 12:00 PM   #15
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Re: Return of the military SERB...

I just put in my retirement papers. I have 20 more years until I can collect the first paycheck of my National Guard retirement. Maybe they will lower the age to 55 so I won't have to wait as long!

I can't imagine the Army doing the same with their 04-06s.
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