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Old 11-05-2009, 05:10 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by samclem View Post
I get it, Steve. You did a test, and you think you could have done better. The experts have explained the extenuating circumstances and some real issues that make this case more complex than most people would have thought, but you think you could have done better.

I don't think the people inthe car were just sitting around and playing Parcheesi while the car was accelerating, I'll bet the driver was plenty motivated to take appropriate actions. We've identified a lot of the "common sense" appropriate actions, and why they wouldn't work (or at least not work in a manner we would expect).

They are all dead. It's not clear what you want.

Please don't drive 120 MPH on some public road doing more "tests." It is dumb.

Not to defend his testing etc... and not knowing enough about Lexus... but we do not know if they were doing anything...

Back when the Audi sudden acceleration was happening... it seemes that nobody that had major wrecks ever put the car in neutral... they all said they pushed harder and harder on the brakes. (which showed no signs of being burned)...

I would assume like you that he was doing 'everything'.... but unless the evidence shows that they tried (like the disk brakes being burnt... so we know he was braking hard)... then we really do not know what else they tried...

I am surprised the brakes would not slow them down... I had a Firebird and they would slow me down.... even with the engine at high RPMs... but they would not stop the car... if I pushed the brakes hard while stopped, the car would just burn rubber... and not move....
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Old 11-05-2009, 05:23 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by Telly View Post
Have "we" lost so much of the concept of automobiles that we need a big orange button in the center of the dash that says "PANIC" on it, that pressing that will solve whatever the problem is?
Actually, considering the complexities involved, it seems reasonable to me.

From some of the info here, it sounds like what might be obvious to some ofus (downshift, shift to neutral) may be overridden by the cars computers (since you would not normally want to do that). Sounds like even turning the engine off isn't as simple as it seems - I've kind of wondered about that with locking steering wheels, I guess I should test in a parking lot someday. But how many people do that - esp with a loaner?

So what do we do when our computer or appliance seems to be locked up into a mode we don't want, and we can't seem to get it to respond? We hit the "PANIC Button"! That might be the power switch, it might be a reset switch, it might mean pulling out the plug and/or removing the battery. You can't do those things in a moving car.

A PANIC button to shut down everything might be just what we need. Heck, even that's not simple, you don't want your lights to go out on a dark road, but maybe the light wiring is on fire? Maybe a standard set of "Shut Down engine - stop vehicle", and "Shut Down EVERYTHING!" buttons are needed.

But definitely shut down the throttle when the brake is applied. It is unbelievable to me that isn't SOP.

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Old 11-05-2009, 05:35 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by Texas Proud View Post
Not to defend his testing etc... and not knowing enough about Lexus... but we do not know if they were doing anything...
I guess when I read this from Leonidas I jumped to the conclusion that someone was applying the brakes in an unsuccessful attempt to stop the hurtling car.
Quote:
When I was reading about this the other day I remember a quote from a witness that the brakes were on fire at some point before the wreck.
I am not surprised the brakes would not stop the car under these very unusual circumstances. It's not so much about the instantaneous friction that the brakes can generate--they can probably generate more "negative torque" than the engine can generate. It's more about their ability to dissipate, without being themselves destroyed, the energy of the car's powerful engine at wide-open throttle plus the starting kinetic energy of the car. We're talking about a tremendous amount of heat energy. At some point the fluids boil (I've had this happen in a car, though today's fluids are better), metal fasteners lose their strength, and solids turn to liquid.
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Old 11-05-2009, 10:01 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by Texas Proud View Post
Not to defend his testing etc... and not knowing enough about Lexus... but we do not know if they were doing anything...

Back when the Audi sudden acceleration was happening... it seemes that nobody that had major wrecks ever put the car in neutral... they all said they pushed harder and harder on the brakes. (which showed no signs of being burned)...

I would assume like you that he was doing 'everything'.... but unless the evidence shows that they tried (like the disk brakes being burnt... so we know he was braking hard)... then we really do not know what else they tried...

I am surprised the brakes would not slow them down... I had a Firebird and they would slow me down.... even with the engine at high RPMs... but they would not stop the car... if I pushed the brakes hard while stopped, the car would just burn rubber... and not move....
I read that the lady that testified against audi lied under oath and almost brought audi to its knees. There was also a piece about audi in 60 minutes and the reporting was so skewed that it almost put audi out of business.
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Old 11-05-2009, 10:53 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by samclem View Post
I get it, Steve. You did a test, and you think you could have done better. The experts have explained the extenuating circumstances and some real issues that make this case more complex than most people would have thought, but you think you could have done better.
I don't think the people inthe car were just sitting around and playing Parcheesi while the car was accelerating, I'll bet the driver was plenty motivated to take appropriate actions. We've identified a lot of the "common sense" appropriate actions, and why they wouldn't work (or at least not work in a manner we would expect).
They are all dead. It's not clear what you want.
Yeah, I was thinkin' we have a new skeptical candidate for a few experiential-learning drill sets in the fire & flooding trainers. Train 'em all you want, but when they face the flames and the spray they still freeze up. I sure did.

Even worse, I'm sure that the best of drivers become a little distracted when the passengers start screaming in their ears and grabbing for the controls.
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Old 11-05-2009, 11:50 PM   #46
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I remember the Audi 5000 "unintended acceleration" fiasco. The 5000 was the only Audi I ever liked the look of, either before or after that time. The 5000 had the Bosch K-Jetronic fuel injection system, as did many european cars. The driver was in direct mechanical control of the throttle plate. So even if somehow the FI system screwed up big time and dumped a lot more fuel in, it would just richen the mixture, because the throttle wouldn't be open more (being under direct driver control) to let in more air. So eventually it would get too rich and miss. That tends to debunk the idea that the car just took off on it's own.

The investigations I remember related to people (many towards the feeble end of the range) that pressed down on the brake pedal but got part of their shoe onto the gas pedal at the same time. Of course they denied that they did something like that, it wasn't their fault that the car went through their back garage wall.
It was said that the two pedals were closer together in that car, and the pedal heights may have also contributed to it. I never drove one, so I really don't know.
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Old 11-06-2009, 12:09 AM   #47
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A big orange "PANIC" button in the middle of the dash really won't work.

The lawyers will make sure that the Owners Manual has all sorts of warnings that the Panic Button is not meant to be used in actual emergencies, that one should avoid any actions that could lead to an emergency, and see your dealer for more information.

But few people read the Owners Manual, I may be one of the last, and I will die off one day.

So the lawyers will insist that all cars equipped with a Panic Button MUST ALSO be equipped with the factory NAV System.
So in an emergency, the hapless clueless motorist punches the Panic Button --> The NAV screen switches to a disclaimer page, actually two pages of small text, that require the user to read it all then click an "I Accept" box, which if performed, reverts half of the NAV system screen to show the location of the nearest Trauma-Level Hospital. The other half of the NAV System screen displays the latest maintenance specials now going on at their dealer (10% off any major body work with coupon, limited time offer; Remember, fresh coffee is always available in the Customer waiting area).

But if they instead select "I Don't Accept", the NAV System switches into Chinese display mode, or religious programing, it's random.
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Long post - quotes mostly
Old 11-06-2009, 02:41 AM   #48
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Long post - quotes mostly

Good God, the speculating here is driving me crazy. There are these pesky things called facts out there, certainly we could better spend our time discussing those. Or, we could do insane things like driving around at 120 (Steve, seriously, check the pocket where you carry your common sense, I think it has a hole in it).

Here, look what Google found for me:
Quote:
(Report of NHTSA investigator/engineer Bill Collins) Cause of crash - Very excessive speed- According to the 911 call made by the brother-in-law sitting in the back seat of the Lexus, the accelerator pedal was depressed in a full power condition and attempts by the driver to release the pedal were unsuccessful...

Other Significant Factors:

1. Accelerator Pedal - The pedal is made from a composite plastic that forms a rigid, one-piece lever. Beyond the main pivot, the lever is not hinged and has no means for relieving forces caused by interferences. Upon removing the pedal from the vehicle, the rotating motion of the pedal assembly was confirmed to be still operational. The return spring action was smooth and unencumbered.

2. Upon inspection of the crashed vehicle, it was found that an all-weather floor mate bearing the Lexus insignia was present in the driver's foot well vehicle with very minor fire damage. The mat was not secured by either of the two retaining clips. The right clip was installed into the grommet of the carpeting but not installed into the mat. The left clip was found under the middle of mat but not clipped to either the carpet or the rubber mat. Removal of the mat was difficult because the bottom edge of the accelerator pedal had melted to the upper right corner of the mat. Further inspection of the mat revealed that while it was a Lexus brand mat, it was not the correct application for the vehicle...When referenced, this part number [of the mat] indicates that it is used in a 2005-2009 Lexus RX400H sport utility vehicle.

3. Push Button Ignition Star with no Emergency Instantaneous Shut off device - In the event that this vehicle was producing unwanted power, there was no ignition key that could be mechanically actuated to instantaneously disconnect electric power to the engine. In place of the key is a software push button that delays the engine shutdown for three seconds once depressed. This instruction is not indicated on the dashboard.

4. The brake pads and calipers were inspected for heat generated by emergency braking. While there was significant fire damage to the majority of the vehicle, the pads, rotors, and calipers could still be observed. The left front wheel assembly and suspension were torn from the vehicle in the crash and had not been involved in the fire. Other rotors on the vehicle generally exhbibited similar conditions. Rotors were discolored and heated, had very rough surfaces, had substantial deposits of brake pad material, and showed signs of bright orange oxidation on the cooling fins consistent with endured braking. Pads were melted and rough with a considerable amount surface material dislocated to the leading edge. The friction surfaces were burned but somewhat reflective. The edges of the pads were bubbled. The calipers were also heat discolored with heat patterns in the area adjacent to the rotor.
The NHTSA investigator included photographs in his report, one of which (rear left caliper and rotor) is attached at the end of this post.

I'm not an engineer, but I am a trained and experienced accident investigator. I'm not a trained accident reconstruction expert, but I supervised their investigations so I've seen it done and reviewed the reports. And of course I'm way too damn good looking and too suave and debonair to be an engineer. I've looked at a lot of brakes and I've never seen anything that looks like the photograph. When I look at that photo a vision pops in my mind of Officer Saylor trying to put his foot through the floorboard as he jams down on the brake pedal for a very extended period of time.

Now, if you go look at the recall notice, it seems that Toyota is saying it's all just a problem with floor mats being improperly installed and secured:
Quote:
Defect Summary: CERTAIN ALL WEATHER FLOOR MATS (AWFM) SPECIFICALLY SOLD AS AN OPTIONAL ACCESSORY ...THE AWFM INCLUDES TWO GROMMET HOLES AND RETAINING HOOKS (CLIPS) TO SECURE THE MAT TO THE VEHICLE'S CARPET. IF THE AWFM IS NOT SECURED BY ITSELF OR IF IT IS PLACED ON TOP OF AN EXISTING CARPETING FLOOR MAT, THE MAT COULD MOVE FORWARD DURING THE VEHICLE USAGE AND IT MAY INTERFERE WITH THE ACCELERATOR PEDAL.

Consequence Summary: THE ACCELERATOR PEDAL MAY TEMPORARILY BECOME STUCK IN A PARTIALLY DEPRESSED POSITION WHEN RETURNING TO THE IDLE POSITION. IF THIS CONDITION OCCURS, IT MAY INCREASE THE POSSIBILITY OF A CRASH.
But NHTSA is calling BS on the recall, saying that it ain't just the floor mats and that removing them is just a temporary fix:
Quote:
NHTSA has told Toyota and consumers that removing the recalled floor mats is the most immediate way to address the safety risk and avoid the possibility of the accelerator becoming stuck. But it is simply an interim measure. This remedy does not correct the underlying defect in the vehicles involving the potential for entrapment of the accelerator by floor mats, which is related to accelerator and floor pan design.
Toyota immediately backpedaled and said it would cooperate with NHTSA to find answers.

The internets is full of other stories about Toyota products (and some other makes) doing the same thing. Earlier this year, NHTSA denied a request for a defect investigation on the Lexus ES350. Here is a very interesting read from the petition filed by the driver/owner:
Quote:
Driving home from work, I experienced a sudden uncontrollable surge in acceleration causing my speed to increase from about 60 mph to 80+ mph. Immediately I began to brake hard as I was rapidly approaching traffic just ahead of me. Fortunately the inside left lane was unoccupied and I was able to make an immediate lane change. Initially I depressed the brake pedal as hard as I could using both feet but only managed to slow the vehicle to 40-45 mph. With my speed reduced, I alternated between pumping the accelerator pedal and pulling up on it from the underside with my right foot as it became clear that the throttle was stuck in an open position. The vehicle continued to speed back up to over 65 mph with less pressure on the brake pedal.

With traffic just ahead of me, I moved over to the left shoulder next to the center barrier and continued to try to release the open throttle. There were
clouds of smoke around the vehicle and the smell of burning materials from the overheating brakes. After finally getting the vehicle slowed down to about 25-30 mph, I shifted into “Neutral” and depressed the start/stop push button a number of times hoping to stop the engine but nothing happened. Instead the RPMs moved up into the redline range on the tachometer. I quickly shifted back into “Drive”; the vehicle jolted and rapidly accelerated to 60+ mph.

As the brakes were fading quickly, I was certain that I would need to shift back into “Neutral” and let the engine blow up to stop the vehicle. Suddenly the acceleration surge stopped and I was able to bring the vehicle to a stop about 1 to 2 miles from where it had started. I quickly shifted into “Park” and depressed the start/stop push button to turn off the engine. The vehicle seemed to shutter as I did so. Upon restarting the car, I drove cautiously to Lexus of Wayzata a short distance away fully prepared to shift into “Neutral” if the acceleration repeated.

The car remains there over 5 weeks later.
Toyota responded by saying that the floor mats were at fault and no other problems were discovered. The owner stuck by his guns and involved NHTSA, and there was a lot of communication back and forth. In the end NHTSA said that there was no reason to believe it was anything other than the floor mats. Read the NHTSA denial of petition here: http://pressroom.toyota.com/pr/tms/t...TSA_Filing.pdf

Cherry-picked are the following excerpts from the petition denial that I thought were interesting and germane:
Quote:
ODI notes that the petitioner’s description of his attempts to “dislodge the throttle by alternatively pumping the accelerator pedal and pulling up on it from the underside” strongly suggest an accelerator pedal that is being physically “trapped” by some foreign object, such as the floor mat (in his case the original equipment carpet).

When ODI and VRTC investigators met with the petitioner and inspected his vehicle the accelerator pedal assembly was functioning properly and there were no anomalies noted in the return springs. Wear marks were noted at the leading edge of the front right edge of the carpet mat, which may have been an indication of contact between the mat and the bottom edge of the accelerator pedal. ODI confirmed that the pedal is such that it can be held down by the mat. Once trapped, the pedal can remain trapped after repeated efforts to “pump” the pedal.
And this one:
Quote:
Many of the incident drivers interviewed by ODI have stated that application of the brakes reduced acceleration but did not stop the vehicle. In assessing these complaints ODI notes that brake effectiveness in controlling a stuck open throttle event is significantly reduced once the vacuum reserve of the vacuum boosted power assist system is depleted. The friction generated from brake application with the wheels driven by full engine power results in significant heating of the brake components. Continued operation in this mode causes degradation of the brake friction materials, further reducing brake effectiveness and the ability of the driver to control vehicle speed.

ODI notes that the petitioner confuses the Brake Assist system referenced in the Owner’s Manual with the brake power assist system. Brake Assist is a computer controlled automobile braking technology that increases braking pressure in an emergency situation (e.g., crash avoidance braking). The Brake Assist technology used by Toyota in the subject vehicles detects an emergency situation by monitoring the rate of change of brake hydraulic pressure from the master cylinder. Based on the information gathered by ODI in interviews of incident drivers, there is no reason to believe that Brake Assist was activated during the unwanted acceleration events. While virtually all of the drivers indicated that they applied a great deal of force to the brake pedal in an effort to slow and stop the vehicle, it is possible that the manner (i.e., rate) in which the force was applied, or the absence of the amplifying vacuum boost, did not produce a brake system pressure pulse that is necessary to activate the Brake Assist system.
And finally:
Quote:
The engine can be turned off while in motion by pressing and holding the ignition push-button start/stop switch for at least three seconds. The press and hold function is meant to avoid inadvertent engine shut-off while in motion. Turning of the engine in this manner puts the vehicle electrical system in Accessory (“ACC”) mode, in which the steering wheel does not lock or retract (as opposed to putting the vehicle in “OFF” mode, which can only occur when the vehicle is in Park).

Petitioner cites the following language to support this claim: “The engine cannot be switched to OFF unless the shift lever is in P.” Toyota has indicated that this should be changed to the vehicle cannot be switched OFF until the shift lever is in Park.”

Petitioner references the following language: “When the engine switch is turned OFF, the steering wheel returns to its stowed position by moving up and away to enable easier driver entry and exit. Switching to ACC or IG-ON mode will return the steering wheel to the original position.”

In its May 14, 2009, letter, Toyota admits that in its description of the function of these features, even though “technically correct,” is confusing. Toyota states that it plans to revise this portion of the manual to address any confusion.
One does wonder why NHTSA was so staunchly on the "it's the mats, stupid" Toyota line just a few months ago, and now is making all different kinds of noises. Perhaps it's the result of new information, or maybe it's just a case of CYA after the death of four people.

One fact seems very clear. Officer Saylor was applying the brakes with all the force he was capable of exerting. What seems reasonable to assume is that the brake assist systems (vacuum and computerized) were not doing their jobs. Without the assist systems the brakes weren't going to stop the car, and once brake components heated to the failure point, nothing was going to stop the car short of a crash.
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Old 11-06-2009, 03:05 AM   #49
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The photo vanished for some reason. Here's a second attempt to post it:
Attached Images
File Type: png moz-screenshot-1.png (747.9 KB, 4 views)
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Old 11-06-2009, 07:27 AM   #50
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I have a 2002 Solara fully loaded, and my floor mat is tethered to a hook so no problems with it. Maybe only the (supposedly) more luxury you go, you get the "hook" (so to speak)?
And I've had 4 Toyotas so far. Luckily, no problems so far like that...scary, really scary.

Bottom line: What I got out of this thread is that if the motor starts racing, put the car in Neutral. Got it.
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Old 11-06-2009, 08:02 AM   #51
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I will be riding with my 85 year old mother-in-law tonight in her 2005 Toyota. I do not like riding with her and can't always get out of it. She likes to take turns and I'm not comfortable with just telling her I don't like riding with her. I will really be watching that floor mat and her purse. She places her rather large purse under her legs when driving. Scars the heck out of me. I would like to see a panic button.
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Old 11-06-2009, 08:09 AM   #52
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Suggest she put the purse behind her seat in the back seat's floor. I do that so nobody can smash my window and grab my purse without opening the door, pulling the driver's seat forward to get it. Make it so hard to reach as you can as my mom was approached one late rainy night when she was about 80 by a smash and grab type young guy. Course, being her, she just jammed on the pedal and went thru the red light as there was no traffic on the road and got away from the guy. She doesn't panic easily...probably why she's made it to 91 (tough old bird and she's proud of it, too).
If you remember the thread on window breakers a few weeks ago, it takes a second to smash that window. Why take chances?
Please tell me this lady DOES always lock her doors while in the car--even in the daytime? Being older, she's a sitting duck.
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Old 11-06-2009, 08:26 AM   #53
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I've never noticed if she locks her doors...I'll try to notice tonight. I don't think she would go for the idea of her purse in the back, but I'll suggest that if she does her thing again tonight. I also could just hold the stupid thing.

A year or so ago her purse got caught on something, I can't remember what, but as we were leaving my house (slowly) a light came on that alerted us that something was wrong. I finally figured out her purse handle was caught on something.

I really hate riding with her...but, she is only my mother-in-law not my mother.

Sorry for derailing the thread...back to brakes and stuff.
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Old 11-06-2009, 08:58 AM   #54
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Leonidas,
Thanks for the very informative post.
I think a big safety improvement would be the standardization of vehicle controls and the foregoing of luxury/convenience in the name of safety.
-- The "luxury" and novelty features of this car directly contributed to the accident. Steering wheels that reposition themselves automatically. Engine starting/stopping controls that are not located in the standard place and don't function in the standard way. Brake boost features that operate differently in emergencies than they do in normal use. Transmission interlocks. It's possible that some of these features actually contribute to safety under other circumstances, but they didn't here.

A momentary digression: A lot of airline pilots comment on the very different nature of Boeing products vs Airbus. The Airbus has a lot of automatic systems that reduce pilot workload and even do some things better than they would likely get done under direct manual control or even under automatic control directed byt he crew. The Boeing products have their share of these automated systems, but fewer of them and with less "interconnectedness." When things start going wrong (sensors give incorrect readings, software code in seemingly unrelated areas start producing unintended positive feedback loops, etc) it can be nearly impossible to figure out, or even to revert to a sustainable manual control mode, in the Airbus. Not so with the Boeing--the function of the varous bits are intutive and fault diagnosis is easier. Also, because the Boeing product requires more crew involvement in many of the functions under normal circumstances, they already know how the various parts interact.
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Old 11-07-2009, 02:26 PM   #55
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Great summary, thanks, but...
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Originally Posted by Leonidas View Post
And of course I'm way too damn good looking and too suave and debonair to be an engineer.
I'll bet you did this to see if people were really bothering to read through that entire post!

Spouse reminded me the other day of our "unintended acceleration" incident in our 1990 Honda Civic back when it was "only" about 10 years old. In our case it was a frayed accelerator cable and a broken stuffing tube in the firewall. When the cable got hung up the accelerator just flopped around like a flounder because the stuffing tube was holding the cable (and the throttle) at max fuel. The only solution was to shift into neutral (at which point the engine immediately redlined) and to shut off the ignition key. I did both before I'd really thought about it, but I was familiar with the car. I'd hate to have something like that happen in a car I'd only driven a few times.

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Leonidas,
When things start going wrong (sensors give incorrect readings, software code in seemingly unrelated areas start producing unintended positive feedback loops, etc) it can be nearly impossible to figure out, or even to revert to a sustainable manual control mode, in the Airbus. Not so with the Boeing--the function of the varous bits are intutive and fault diagnosis is easier. Also, because the Boeing product requires more crew involvement in many of the functions under normal circumstances, they already know how the various parts interact.
I think Toyota has developed a bad case of "we're too smart and experienced to have flaws" hubris. Airbus' design attitude seems to be "this can't possibly break" whereas Boeing's is "it's only a matter of when, not if". I think Toyota would do a lot better to follow Boeing's approach and stop setting themselves up.

As for dealing with the public-relations aspect of the crisis, there are two ways to handle it: the way J&J did with the cyanide-laced Tylenol incident, or the way Intel initially tried to brush off the Pentium's calculation flaw.

In the meantime our Prius driver's floormat isn't going back in-- there's no reason to bother doing so.
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Old 11-07-2009, 03:32 PM   #56
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A big orange "PANIC" button in the middle of the dash really won't work.

The lawyers will make sure that the Owners Manual has all sorts of warnings that the Panic Button is not meant to be used in actual emergencies, that one should avoid any actions that could lead to an emergency, and see your dealer for more information.

But few people read the Owners Manual, I may be one of the last, and I will die off one day.

So the lawyers will insist that all cars equipped with a Panic Button MUST ALSO be equipped with the factory NAV System.
So in an emergency, the hapless clueless motorist punches the Panic Button --> The NAV screen switches to a disclaimer page, actually two pages of small text, that require the user to read it all then click an "I Accept" box, which if performed, reverts half of the NAV system screen to show the location of the nearest Trauma-Level Hospital. The other half of the NAV System screen displays the latest maintenance specials now going on at their dealer (10% off any major body work with coupon, limited time offer; Remember, fresh coffee is always available in the Customer waiting area).

But if they instead select "I Don't Accept", the NAV System switches into Chinese display mode, or religious programing, it's random.
Here's a good example of what would happen if the Panic Button was installed. Rescuers fear 'yuppie' 911 calls - STLtoday.com
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Old 11-07-2009, 04:26 PM   #57
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Panic buttons may not inspire sales. Or confidence in the manufacturer.

Looking at the brake photo, It is obvious the driver was giving it all he had, too bad for a brake design that can't handle full engine power and then some. Gives some good feeling about the hydraulically boosted brakes on my car and my suburban.

All trains have emergency stop buttons. In the light rail vehicles the nick name is "big red mushroom". A very large red button, conveniently in front and center, within easy reach, which when mashed upon by the operator (driver) will disable propulsion and apply maximum braking force. Trains are designed for failsafe. Meaning in case of failure the train is brought to a stop.

That sort of design would probably be cost prohibitive in automobiles. And they are very very complicated, bring wheelbarrows of hundred dollar bills if repairs are needed.

Having worked with complex systems of trains, I have a very strong aversion of automobile drive by wire, fancy doodads, moving steering wheels and self parking geewhiz, keyless starters etc..

Ironically the car's braking system had an emergency assist mode, would not have taken much more to add an engine kill feature if max brakes are demanded for some predetermined time.

Thanks for the photo and factual info Leonidas.
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Old 11-07-2009, 04:32 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by Nords View Post
I'll bet you did this to see if people were really bothering to read through that entire post!
Absolutely, and it only took 36 hours and a hundred reads or so before someone discovered.

Think of it as an Easter egg in software. Your prize is a cold beer over BBQ next time you brave the rattlers and fire ants to come to town.
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Here's a good example of what would happen if the Panic Button was installed. Rescuers fear 'yuppie' 911 calls - STLtoday.com
There is a simple fix. Of course mine is old-school and a bit draconian by today's standards, but I often found myself called to fix things that weren't police related at all. "If I get called back out here again, somebody is going to jail." It was a beautiful thing watching people resolve their own problems without involving me.
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Old 11-07-2009, 05:21 PM   #59
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OK, I confess I just chuckled a couple days ago when I first read your post, Leonidas;
but I have a theory on men that says to keep my flap shut and let them live in DelusionalWorld so long as they want. But I am SURE you are su-wave and de-boner, anyway.
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Old 11-07-2009, 06:45 PM   #60
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Absolutely, and it only took 36 hours and a hundred reads or so before someone discovered.
I noticed, but I'm not an engineer, though sometimes I play one on tv...

But I use Suave shampoo!
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