Runaway Toyotas - I just don't understand

[happy2bretired]

I will be riding with my 85 year old mother-in-law tonight in her 2005 Toyota. I do not like riding with her and can't always get out of it. She likes to take turns and I'm not comfortable with just telling her I don't like riding with her. I will really be watching that floor mat and her purse. She places her rather large purse under her legs when driving. Scars the heck out of me. I would like to see a panic button.

 

[Orchidflower]

Suggest she put the purse behind her seat in the back seat's floor. I do that so nobody can smash my window and grab my purse without opening the door, pulling the driver's seat forward to get it. Make it so hard to reach as you can as my mom was approached one late rainy night when she was about 80 by a smash and grab type young guy. Course, being her, she just jammed on the pedal and went thru the red light as there was no traffic on the road and got away from the guy. She doesn't panic easily...probably why she's made it to 91 (tough old bird and she's proud of it, too).
If you remember the thread on window breakers a few weeks ago, it takes a second to smash that window. Why take chances?
Please tell me this lady DOES always lock her doors while in the car--even in the daytime? Being older, she's a sitting duck.

 

[happy2bretired]

I've never noticed if she locks her doors...I'll try to notice tonight. I don't think she would go for the idea of her purse in the back, but I'll suggest that if she does her thing again tonight. I also could just hold the stupid thing.

A year or so ago her purse got caught on something, I can't remember what, but as we were leaving my house (slowly) a light came on that alerted us that something was wrong. I finally figured out her purse handle was caught on something.

I really hate riding with her...but, she is only my mother-in-law not my mother.

Sorry for derailing the thread...back to brakes and stuff.

 

[samclem]

Leonidas,
Thanks for the very informative post.
I think a big safety improvement would be the standardization of vehicle controls and the foregoing of luxury/convenience in the name of safety.
-- The "luxury" and novelty features of this car directly contributed to the accident. Steering wheels that reposition themselves automatically. Engine starting/stopping controls that are not located in the standard place and don't function in the standard way. Brake boost features that operate differently in emergencies than they do in normal use. Transmission interlocks. It's possible that some of these features actually contribute to safety under other circumstances, but they didn't here.

A momentary digression: A lot of airline pilots comment on the very different nature of Boeing products vs Airbus. The Airbus has a lot of automatic systems that reduce pilot workload and even do some things better than they would likely get done under direct manual control or even under automatic control directed byt he crew. The Boeing products have their share of these automated systems, but fewer of them and with less "interconnectedness." When things start going wrong (sensors give incorrect readings, software code in seemingly unrelated areas start producing unintended positive feedback loops, etc) it can be nearly impossible to figure out, or even to revert to a sustainable manual control mode, in the Airbus. Not so with the Boeing--the function of the varous bits are intutive and fault diagnosis is easier. Also, because the Boeing product requires more crew involvement in many of the functions under normal circumstances, they already know how the various parts interact.

 

[Nords]

Great summary, thanks, but...

And of course I'm way too damn good looking and too suave and debonair to be an engineer.

I'll bet you did this to see if people were really bothering to read through that entire post!

Spouse reminded me the other day of our "unintended acceleration" incident in our 1990 Honda Civic back when it was "only" about 10 years old. In our case it was a frayed accelerator cable and a broken stuffing tube in the firewall. When the cable got hung up the accelerator just flopped around like a flounder because the stuffing tube was holding the cable (and the throttle) at max fuel. The only solution was to shift into neutral (at which point the engine immediately redlined) and to shut off the ignition key. I did both before I'd really thought about it, but I was familiar with the car. I'd hate to have something like that happen in a car I'd only driven a few times.

Leonidas,
When things start going wrong (sensors give incorrect readings, software code in seemingly unrelated areas start producing unintended positive feedback loops, etc) it can be nearly impossible to figure out, or even to revert to a sustainable manual control mode, in the Airbus. Not so with the Boeing--the function of the varous bits are intutive and fault diagnosis is easier. Also, because the Boeing product requires more crew involvement in many of the functions under normal circumstances, they already know how the various parts interact.

I think Toyota has developed a bad case of "we're too smart and experienced to have flaws" hubris. Airbus' design attitude seems to be "this can't possibly break" whereas Boeing's is "it's only a matter of when, not if". I think Toyota would do a lot better to follow Boeing's approach and stop setting themselves up.

As for dealing with the public-relations aspect of the crisis, there are two ways to handle it: the way J&J did with the cyanide-laced Tylenol incident, or the way Intel initially tried to brush off the Pentium's calculation flaw.

In the meantime our Prius driver's floormat isn't going back in-- there's no reason to bother doing so.

 

[harley]

A big orange "PANIC" button in the middle of the dash really won't work.

The lawyers will make sure that the Owners Manual has all sorts of warnings that the Panic Button is not meant to be used in actual emergencies, that one should avoid any actions that could lead to an emergency, and see your dealer for more information.

But few people read the Owners Manual, I may be one of the last, and I will die off one day.

So the lawyers will insist that all cars equipped with a Panic Button MUST ALSO be equipped with the factory NAV System.
So in an emergency, the hapless clueless motorist punches the Panic Button --> The NAV screen switches to a disclaimer page, actually two pages of small text, that require the user to read it all then click an "I Accept" box, which if performed, reverts half of the NAV system screen to show the location of the nearest Trauma-Level Hospital. The other half of the NAV System screen displays the latest maintenance specials now going on at their dealer (10% off any major body work with coupon, limited time offer; Remember, fresh coffee is always available in the Customer waiting area).

But if they instead select "I Don't Accept", the NAV System switches into Chinese display mode, or religious programing, it's random.

Here's a good example of what would happen if the Panic Button was installed. Rescuers fear 'yuppie' 911 calls - STLtoday.com

 

[ls99]

Panic buttons may not inspire sales. Or confidence in the manufacturer.

Looking at the brake photo, It is obvious the driver was giving it all he had, too bad for a brake design that can't handle full engine power and then some. Gives some good feeling about the hydraulically boosted brakes on my car and my suburban.

All trains have emergency stop buttons. In the light rail vehicles the nick name is "big red mushroom". A very large red button, conveniently in front and center, within easy reach, which when mashed upon by the operator (driver) will disable propulsion and apply maximum braking force. Trains are designed for failsafe. Meaning in case of failure the train is brought to a stop.

That sort of design would probably be cost prohibitive in automobiles. And they are very very complicated, bring wheelbarrows of hundred dollar bills if repairs are needed.

Having worked with complex systems of trains, I have a very strong aversion of automobile drive by wire, fancy doodads, moving steering wheels and self parking geewhiz, keyless starters etc..

Ironically the car's braking system had an emergency assist mode, would not have taken much more to add an engine kill feature if max brakes are demanded for some predetermined time.

Thanks for the photo and factual info Leonidas.

 

[Leonidas]

I'll bet you did this to see if people were really bothering to read through that entire post!

Absolutely, and it only took 36 hours and a hundred reads or so before someone discovered.

Think of it as an Easter egg in software. Your prize is a cold beer over BBQ next time you brave the rattlers and fire ants to come to town.

Here's a good example of what would happen if the Panic Button was installed. Rescuers fear 'yuppie' 911 calls - STLtoday.com

There is a simple fix. Of course mine is old-school and a bit draconian by today's standards, but I often found myself called to fix things that weren't police related at all. "If I get called back out here again, somebody is going to jail." It was a beautiful thing watching people resolve their own problems without involving me.

 

[Orchidflower]

OK, I confess I just chuckled a couple days ago when I first read your post, Leonidas;
but I have a theory on men that says to keep my flap shut and let them live in DelusionalWorld so long as they want. But I am SURE you are su-wave and de-boner, anyway.

 

[HFWR]

Absolutely, and it only took 36 hours and a hundred reads or so before someone discovered.

I noticed, but I'm not an engineer, though sometimes I play one on tv...

But I use Suave shampoo!

 

[Orchidflower]

HFWR: We won't hate you because you're beautiful.

 

[W2R]

HFWR: We won't hate you because you're beautiful.

Drat! I checked and that was the commercial for Pantene shampoo.

I use Suave shampoo, too. Even if it doesn't make people "hate me because I am beautiful", it's cheap.

 

[Orchidflower]

Bottom line is: Shift into neutral and turn off the ignition. Got it correctly now.

 

[CCdaCE]

I noticed, but I'm not an engineer, though sometimes I play one on tv...

But I use Suave shampoo!

The next audacity you'll thrust upon us is that you stayed at a Holiday Inn Express.

-CC <--- An engineer in real life AND uses Pantene to combat oily hair.

 

[Texas Proud]

Absolutely, and it only took 36 hours and a hundred reads or so before someone discovered.

Nawww.... I saw it pretty quickly.... but since I am not an engineer I did not care...

But it has taken me 36 hours to read this as I did not read anything this weekend...

 

[HFWR]

The next audacity you'll thrust upon us is that you stayed at a Holiday Inn Express.

-CC <--- An engineer in real life AND uses Pantene to combat oily hair.

I'm a technician in real life, though sometimes I have to save a project from the engineer...

What I need is a shampoo to combat enlarging forehead!

 

[Orchidflower]

Awwww...bald men just have more testosterone. Consider it a badge of being too much man is all.