Rust Converters

[FinallyRetired]

OK, folks this is it. The best product I've seen in a long time. I know, you're saying, why are you talking about rust in the middle of the winter? Well, save this post cause you will thank me in the summer.

DW are in our caribbean place for the winter and I've been grimmacing over 9 months of rust buildup on our outdoor rustfree furniture. I get out the old scraper, sandpaper, primer, and touch up paint and do one corner of the bar (scraping only) when I think, the rust doesn't look all that bad. DW disagrees, so I promise to get back to the job after a couple of pina coladas.

I then get on the internet and look for ways to [-]avoid[/-] do the rust removing job. Lo and behold, I learn there is something known as a rust converter that takes the rust (iron oxide) and chemically converts it to iron tannate, whatever that is, plus puts a thin protective film on top that you can paint over. No scraping, no sanding, nothing but putting on this liquid.

First thought, if it sounds too good to be true it is. Second thought, if I buy a bottle of this stuff I can put off the job for a couple of weeks while I "test" it. So I buy a bottle, put it on with a brush, and an hour later, no rust! Just this black smooth stuff, guess it's iron tannite. I just have to wait a couple of days now and paint over it.

Since I sound like a salesman at this point, not even going to say what particular brand I used, there are several. Just look for "rust converter" on the internet next summer, unless you are Nords or are in Florida in which case you can look now.

Better living through chemistry.

 

[REWahoo]

I've used the stuff. It works pretty good based on my experience.

 

[Sweetlip]

How good might it be in saltwater conditions. eg on a boat trailer?

 

[Moemg]

Thanks ,

I'm going to get some .Our patio furniture has not rusted except for a cheap side table but rust eats our outside lamps alive .

 

[ERD50]

I've used some of the 'converter' stuff before, and it did seem to work almost like magic - wonderful stuff. I talked it up like you are, so I'm not surprised. Other times I've used it, it didn't seem to work so well. Not sure what the diff was.

BTW, pour a bit out into a cup, brush from there. Throw that out when you are done, do not pour it back. IIRC, dipping the brush back in the main container 'contaminates' the stuff that is left, and the chemical reaction breaks it all down.

-ERD50

 

[FinallyRetired]

BTW, pour a bit out into a cup, brush from there. Throw that out when you are done, do not pour it back. IIRC, dipping the brush back in the main container 'contaminates' the stuff that is left, and the chemical reaction breaks it all down.

-ERD50

Now you tell me

I dipped and redipped lots of times. I'll see how it wears, should be good for a couple of months, I hope.
Sweetlip, I'm in sort of saltwater conditions, half mile from the ocean, and so far so good.

 

[ERD50]

Now you tell me

I dipped and redipped lots of times. I'll see how it wears, should be good for a couple of months, I hope.
Sweetlip, I'm in sort of saltwater conditions, half mile from the ocean, and so far so good.

Probably OK for that use - but it might have all it's chemicals converted in the container - you might not want to use what is left on anything critical.

Check the directions, it might be different stuff. I suppose if it is turning black, it must be working though? I'm not a chemist.

-ERD50

 

[TromboneAl]

I've used this, but the rust has come back. That is, convert the rust, paint with rustoleum, then see the rust come back in a few months. Perhaps I'm asking too much.

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

You guys need a big air compressor, a good sandblaster and a good paint sprayer.

Might not help much with the rust, but its a lot more fun to play with than sandpaper and brushes.

 

[73ss454]

There a 2 very popular products for rust in the automotive world. One is Por-15 and the other is Rust Encapsulator.

Try going to Eastwood.com and reading the article about the 2 products. The article is on the first page. I have used the rust encapsulator and it worked great.

 

[toofrugalformycat]

I used the stuff on an old metal shed and a Honda Civic. In both cases I used the stuff, the rust turned black, then I painted over it. Worked for a few years on the shed, then the rust came back. Kept the rust off the Honda for less than a year. I bought the shed product at a hardware store, the other at Napa auto parts.
But it beats the heck out of hand sanding, then painting. That fails too in my experience, and causes repetitive motion pain as well.
Of course there are lots of brands out there. I'll check out the place posted by 73ss454

 

[travelover]

I've used this, but the rust has come back. That is, convert the rust, paint with rustoleum, then see the rust come back in a few months. Perhaps I'm asking too much.

My experience, too, with my garage door.

 

[Goonie]

I've used Naval Jelly Rust Dissolver a lot. You just brush or wipe it on, let it sit for a 5 or 10 minutes, wash it off, let it dry, and then prime and/or paint. It doesn't 'convert' the rust like some of those other products, it removes it, so you're left with clean, rust-free metal. Also, FWIW, I've had much better luck with Krylon paints, rather than Rustoleum paints for protection of outside stuff like patio furniture, and yard & garden items. We used Clear Krylon spray paint on all of the nuts & bolts on my Dad's ham radio tower back in the 1980's. When we took it down last year, and the nuts & bolts weren't rusty! Not bad for about 25 years in all types of weather!

You should be able to find Naval Jelly at a hardware or automotive store. If not Amazon has it in an 8oz. bottle for $3.69.

As for the rust converters.....sometimes good, long-lasting results....sometimes not. Several years ago at w*rk we used it on some equipment that was normally in water, and it worked quite well and lasted for several years. I think what we used was by Rustoleum from their Industrial Coatings line.

 

[calmloki]

Phosphoric acid - see wiki article:
[edit] Rust removal

Phosphoric acid may be used by direct application to rusted iron, steel tools, or surfaces to convert iron(III) oxide (rust) to a water-soluble phosphate compound. It is usually available as a greenish liquid, suitable for dipping (acid bath), but is more generally used as a component in a gel, commonly called naval jelly. As a thick gel, it may be applied to sloping, vertical, or even overhead surfaces. Care must be taken to avoid acid burns of the skin and especially the eyes, but the residue is easily diluted with water. When sufficiently diluted, it can even be nutritious to plant life, containing the essential nutrients phosphorus and iron. It is sometimes sold under other names, such as "rust remover" or "rust killer." It should not be directly introduced into surface water such as creeks or into drains, however. After treatment, the reddish-brown iron oxide will be converted to a black iron phosphate compound coating that may be scrubbed off. Multiple applications of phosphoric acid may be required to remove all rust. The resultant black compound can provide further corrosion resistance (such protection is somewhat provided by the superficially similar Parkerizing and blued electrochemical conversion coating processes.) After application and removal of rust using phosphoric acid compounds, the metal should be oiled (if to be used bare, as in a tool) or appropriately painted, by using a multiple coat process of primer, intermediate, and finish coats.

 

[ladelfina]

We used a phosphoric acid liquid on a porch rocker's metal spring seat during the course of re-upholstering it. Worked a treat. Don't know about the name-brand products.

They also sell a gel-like paint here (in Italy) that we have used on some metal supports. Doesn't drip, no sanding, and you can even apply it to wet or humid surfaces. It's called Fernovus by Saratoga. Hasn't passed enough time to tell how it holds up.

 

[dt123]

POR-15 is the gold standard in rust treatment. You go over the piece once quickly with a wire brush to get the really big chunks of dirt and rust off. Then coat liberally with POR-15. A day later coat the POR-15 with something else, like regular enamel paint. Rust problem solved forever.

Don't get any POR-15 on your skin, or you will be wearing it for couple of weeks. No harm, just a little strange looking.

 

[FinallyRetired]

Don't get any POR-15 on your skin, or you will be wearing it for couple of weeks. No harm, just a little strange looking.

Great, where do you get this stuff? I figure the more toxic something is, the better.

 

[73ss454]

Great, where do you get this stuff? I figure the more toxic something is, the better.

As I mentioned on my last post, Eastwood.com has Por-15 and Rust encapsulator.

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Chuck Norris would just tell the rust to leave and it would.

 

[dt123]

Eastwood used to be overpriced on most things. I get the stuff direct from por15.com, surprisingly enough. I like the little six packs of small cans, because as someone else noted, once you open a can it either gets hard before you use up the remainder, or as I have noticed the top gets permanently sealed to to the can.

 

[FinallyRetired]

As I mentioned on my last post, Eastwood.com has Por-15 and Rust encapsulator.

Mmm... I went into that site and found their encapsulator and their article comparing it with por15 but I couldn't find the por15 product to order, just the eastwood encapsulator. I went to the po15 site and couldn't order it to be shipped overseas, guess it's too toxic (must be great).

Edit: Looks like those of us that are in the colonies or are nonconnected to the lower 48 are SOL. I found this caution on a site that sells PO15:

Due to Postal Restrictions on Hazardous / Flammable POR-15 Materials .. We ship by UPS and Fed-EX Ground Service only to the Lower connected 48 States U.S.A. .. We do not ship to P.O. Boxes , A.P.O. Addresses , Alaska, Hawaii , Puerto Rico, or U.S. Protectorates/Territories ..

Looks like yet another reason to secede or at least throw some tea in the water.

 

[73ss454]

Well, before you start throwing away your tea give the rust encapsulator a shot.

 

[ERD50]

Phosphoric acid - see wiki article:
[edit] Rust removal

Phosphoric acid may be used by direct application to rusted iron, steel tools, or surfaces to convert iron(III) oxide (rust) to a water-soluble phosphate compound. .... When sufficiently diluted, it can even be nutritious to plant life, containing the essential nutrients phosphorus and iron.

Wow, versatile stuff that phosphoric acid!

I use it to sanitize stuff for brewing beer - it is sold under the name 'star-san'. Concentrated, it is dangerous stuff, but diluted to a pH of <3.0 it kills microorganisms on contact. But at that dilution, it is so easily diluted by the human ingestion system that it does not pose much danger (it is an ingredient in most soft drinks, not that that is a any recommendation). You don't even rinse it off - when the residue is diluted by the added beer the pH returns to normal - no problem. And a little extra acidity is said to be good for the yeast.

I'll try some on rust next - while I drink a home-brew.

-ERD50

 

[Nords]

... unless you are Nords or are in Florida in which case you can look now.

I guess this is like when I make fun of you guys for "winterizing" your houses & cars!

My advice would be to throw away the rusty lanai furniture and buy something of powder-coated aluminum. The home-improvement stores & Costco are starting to get them at affordable prices.

But if you really enjoy watching chemical reactions (I have a chemistry BS) then you can also try Loctite's Extend rust neutralizer. They advise "Paint over the area with an oil-based paint. Do not use a latex-based paint because it will peel off or bleed through." And ya gotta love a compound that warns in boldface on the label "RUST MUST BE PRESENT FOR PRODUCT TO WORK!".

We have 17-year-old wrought-iron welded security grilles over the jalousies (and behind the landscaping) of a rental home. They get soaked in the rain (and sprinklers), covered with dirt from the tradewinds, and rarely see the sunlight (they even occasionally sport moss). Sandblasting, scraping, wire-brushing, sanding, and naval jelly are not an option because jalousies aren't airtight and the grilles are only removable with a reciprocating saw. So every five or six years we foam-brush a coat of Extend over them and just let the chemical do its thing. It gives the grilles a delightful old brown-black bumpy tropical patina that goes well with the landscaping (without killing plants like naval jelly might) and the grilles look better than the trim boards they're screwed into. We also don't bother with any kind of paint... we just keep painting over the old coats of Extend.

It used to be available only at auto-parts stores (it greatly "Extend-ed" the life of our first two cars) but the website claims that it's available at just about every home-improvment & big-box store.