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Re: Saving money on electricity
Old 12-23-2005, 07:45 PM   #21
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Re: Saving money on electricity

Buy one now and mark it on your calendar on his birthday, that you bought him a gift already.
It's a great gift idea.
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Re: Saving money on electricity
Old 12-24-2005, 09:12 AM   #22
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Re: Saving money on electricity

Well I have bad news on the fancy dan new tv department.

My brand new JVC 55" LCoS set uses about 180w, with surging up over 200W. The brand new 65" toshiba high def CRT set I bought a few months ago runs about 140W. My 10 year old Maggotbox uses about 150W. I thought maybe a true LCD set instead of a microdisplay projection set would use less, but I see Sharps Aquos 45" set is manufaturer rated at 300W.

I had figured the huge CRT set as the biggest pig and the new microdisplay set as the energy sipper...wrong again...

So a few more tidbits...my new kenmore energy star dishwasher costs about 28c a load to do the dishes, with every option turned on...smart wash, heated water, sani-rinse, and heated drying. So about eight bucks and change a month to use. Hmm...if I had 4-5 pots to wash I'd just do them by hand to save running an extra load of dishes. For 28c I think i'll run them through the dang dishwasher from now on.

Next two long term tests are the washing machine and the nursery's electric heater.

I'm guessing at this point though that my standard non-heat, non-AC $110 electric bill is ~10 dishes, ~20-25 clothes washing, ~15-20 'phantom loads', and the rest is lights, televisions, coffee makers and the like in regular operation.

Good to know what does what...some presumed good actors werent, some surprising bad actors have popped up, and with a few very minor changes I can save myself $30-40 a year.

More when I have it...
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Re: Saving money on electricity
Old 12-24-2005, 09:33 AM   #23
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Re: Saving money on electricity

Coffee pot (bog standard mr. coffee) to brew 12 cups and keep it hot for 2 hours, about .30kwh, or a little under 10c.

I was shutting it off after an hour if I wasnt going to have another cup immediately and then warming one in the microwave if I wanted it. Bet the minute in the microwave costs more than the extra hour of burner time... :P
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Re: Saving money on electricity
Old 12-24-2005, 09:35 AM   #24
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Re: Saving money on electricity

Get a coffee maker with an insulated carafe; keeps warm all by itself...
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Re: Saving money on electricity
Old 12-24-2005, 09:47 AM   #25
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Re: Saving money on electricity

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Originally Posted by ()
Next two long term tests are the washing machine and the nursery's electric heater.
Good luck with that-- you'll have to let me know how it turns out. *"But Dad, if you want me to do less laundry then you'll have to spend more money on my clothing budget!"

I'm planning to use my new toy tool to meter our kid's energy waste. *(Perhaps it's easier & cheaper to put timers on the hallway light switch, but nowhere near as much fun.) *I bet our CRT TVs and six VCRs add up to a hefty phantom load, too. *

I'm also hoping to settle the discussion on the garage's ultrasonic anti-rodent gizmo. *I think it's a waste of energy while spouse claims that it keeps away landsharks & white elephants as well...

Quote:
Originally Posted by TromboneAl
And if you don't have a Kill-a-watt, here's what you can do:
I was wondering how to handle 240V appliances. *Our electric clothes dryer puts a pretty impressive spin on the meter but there's substantial family resistance to hanging wet laundry in the garage. *Maybe I should claim that the ultrasonic gizmo speeds the process.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TromboneAl
Here's how I calculated this, perhaps someone can check my math.
Yep, the power company is telling you that there's 7.2 KWHr/1000 revolutions.

(7.2 KWHr/1000 rev) x (3600 sec/Hr) x (1000 watt/KW) = 25920 watt-sec/rev

(25920 watt-sec/rev) / (# sec/rev) = watts

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Bet the minute in the microwave costs more than the extra hour of burner time... :P
Generally a microwave oven is a more efficient water-heating tool than a heating plate or a stove burner, although microwaves are a bigger capital investment. But now we have the tools to validate the theory!
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Re: Saving money on electricity
Old 12-24-2005, 09:52 AM   #26
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Re: Saving money on electricity

We had one of those, and I liked it but my wife hated it. Her reason was that she couldnt tell how much coffee was left in it. I'm not sure what the problem with that was as we never finish the pot, but I've learned its best to not probe on such matters...

I figure with the knowledge that its 9c to brew and heat (and I may take the time to separate out how much of that is brew and how much is heat), i'm happy that she's happy...
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Re: Saving money on electricity
Old 12-24-2005, 09:54 AM   #27
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Re: Saving money on electricity

Bummer on the LCD TV ... don't tell my wife.
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Re: Saving money on electricity
Old 12-24-2005, 09:55 AM   #28
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Re: Saving money on electricity

Case closed!!
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Re: Saving money on electricity
Old 12-24-2005, 10:03 AM   #29
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Re: Saving money on electricity

Nords...those ultrasonic thingies dont work. At least not the one I tried at my wifes old house where the back shed was a virtual resort for rats and mice. Didnt bother them in the least. Unfortunately I dont think it'd take more than a watt or two to run one.

On the microwave...thousand watts for a minute = some level of electric cost i'm not going to calculate right now until my 2nd cup of coffee...

You might consider one of those fancy light switches that detects motion and turns the lights off if it doesnt see any in the room for 15 minutes or so. Or just go the fluorescent route and stop worrying about it. I'm using some of the x10 control stuff to help out a little, I have it turning our xmas tree on and off for times when we're going to be in the living room, turning the house xmas lights on and off automatically, and in the summer it shuts off the whole house fan in the middle of the night when its pretty much done with its cooling job. I have a buttload of the replacement light switch 'modules' and i'm thinking of putting them in a few key spots with an automatic periodic shutoff. I'm forever leaving the garage light and the back patio lights on all night.
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Re: Saving money on electricity
Old 12-24-2005, 10:18 AM   #30
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Re: Saving money on electricity

Quote:
Originally Posted by LOL!
Bummer on the LCD TV ... don't tell my wife.
Your secret is safe with me for a small monthly fee.

Actually you're sort of hosed with most of the new televisions as the lamp or backlight on them is usually in the 100watt range, plus 20-50+ to power the dlp/lcos silicon or lcd panel, plus the rest of the supporting electronics. God help the plasma owners, they eat a lot of power and blow off a lot of heat.

I think the one I used to own was rated at about 500W. If the wall air conditioner in my old house in the same room with the plasma cycled its compressor at the same time that I turned on the tv the circuit breaker blew. You could stand a few feet away and feel the radiant heat coming off of it. It made the room nice and toasty in the winter time, but I needed the window AC units extra boost to keep the room cool enough in the summer time.

The old CRT people have been at the process of reducing the power consumption for a long time.
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Re: Saving money on electricity
Old 12-24-2005, 11:00 AM   #31
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Re: Saving money on electricity

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Originally Posted by ()
Nords...those ultrasonic thingies dont work.* At least not the one I tried at my wifes old house where the back shed was a virtual resort for rats and mice.* Didnt bother them in the least.* Unfortunately I dont think it'd take more than a watt or two to run one.
See, I've already tried the logical engineering approach. Maybe I can win out on cost/benefit. Or maybe at least I'll learn that it doesn't use much power and I'll be able to stop tossing & turning at night.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ()
You might consider one of those fancy light switches that detects motion and turns the lights off if it doesnt see any in the room for 15 minutes or so. Or just go the fluorescent route and stop worrying about it. I'm using some of the x10 control stuff to help out a little
We have the fluorescents too but dammit it's the principle of the thing! We're still trying to get the Mk1 Mod 0 teenager to learn to turn off the lights, and I doubt that there are enough X10 modules in the world to keep up with that demand. But at least she still jumps when we holler, so it's good exercise too...
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Re: Saving money on electricity
Old 12-24-2005, 12:05 PM   #32
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Re: Saving money on electricity

OK here ya go. Use one of those switches that requires inserting a card to turn it on, then attach the card to 10' of wire and wrap it around her leg. She leaves the room, pop, light goes off.

What could go wrong?!?
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Re: Saving money on electricity
Old 12-24-2005, 01:40 PM   #33
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Re: Saving money on electricity

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OK here ya go.* Use one of those switches that requires inserting a card to turn it on, then attach the card to 10' of wire and wrap it around her leg.* She leaves the room, pop, light goes off.

What could go wrong?!?
I love it. I bet that'd work great with the TV, the computer, the fridge, and every door in the house too!
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Re: Saving money on electricity
Old 12-25-2005, 01:24 AM   #34
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Re: Saving money on electricity

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On the microwave...thousand watts for a minute = some level of electric cost i'm not going to calculate right now until my 2nd cup of coffee...
Sounds like you are managing your electric "load" very well. In general, the stuff thats online 24/7 (electric water heater, fridge/freezer, chargers, transformers) will drive your usage. If you have an electric water heater, consider extra insulation and a timer.

About "thousand watts for a minute" did you mean 1,000 watts for one hour? If something consumes, say 1,000 watts, then using that device for one hour would cost 1,000 watts or 1 kWh (kilo watt hour.) Using it for less than hour would be the appropriate fraction of a kWh.

Might check with your electric company and ask if they offer any promotional rates (off peak demand usage) or rebates for insulation, etc.

MERRY CHRISTMAS!

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Re: Saving money on electricity
Old 12-25-2005, 11:06 AM   #35
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Re: Saving money on electricity

Both our fridges (yes...both of them...I had bought one and it was a piece of crap the manufacturer [who will remain nameless because it was General Electric] refused to replace after being unable to repair under warranty...so I bought another while I was raining hell and damnation on them via every consumer and news agency on earth...a few months later they sent me a nice new one) look to be using about four to five bucks a month in electricity. The electricity usage jumps threefold when you open the door and the light goes on though.

Gas water heater. About 8-10 bucks a month. Sitting in our warmer-than-outdoors garage.

The microwave uses 1000 watts...so warming my coffee for a minute uses 1000 watts for a minute, or if my math is correct, 1/60th of a kwh, or .16kw, which at 20c a kwh runs to about 3c. Did I do that math right? Only 1.25 cups of coffee so far and up since 5am with gabes.
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Re: Saving money on electricity
Old 12-25-2005, 11:16 AM   #36
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Re: Saving money on electricity

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The electricity usage jumps threefold when you open the door and the light goes on though.
The engineer in me wants to know why refrigerators have lights. Any appliance experts out there?

Somehow we all manage to navigate our freezers without interior illumination. Yet the fridge requires a blazing incandescent bulb so that we can see every splash, drip, & mold colony.

At a minimum that 100W bulb should be replaced with a 40W appliance bulb or even a CF. And maybe we'll be disconnecting ours!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ()
The microwave uses 1000 watts...so warming my coffee for a minute uses 1000 watts for a minute, or if my math is correct, 1/60th of a kwh, or .16kw, which at 20c a kwh runs to about 3c. Did I do that math right? Only 1.25 cups of coffee so far and up since 5am with gabes.
Merry Christmas, Dad! The upside is that naptime will be earlier today, right?

(1000 watts)(1 minute) x (1 hr/60 min) x (1 KW/1000 watts) x (20 cents/KWhr) = 0.3 cents.

20 cents/KWHr? I thought Oahu was expensive at 17 cents. Or is this a "deregulation" benefit?
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Re: Saving money on electricity
Old 12-25-2005, 11:36 AM   #37
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Re: Saving money on electricity

Yep you're right I screwed it up. I was looking at some 'sample bills' on the pg&e web site and they were using larger (wishful thinking?) numbers. After clicking 1000 steps and having to agree to accept e-bills before being able to see my own bill on-line, then having to get a page with 50 characters on it delivered as a 2mb PDF file, I see that i'm being charged 11c for baseline use, 13c for 100-130% use, and 18c for 131-200% usage. About 40% of my bill is 131-200%. 200% of what? What baseline?? Argggh!

My new GE refrigerator has fiber optic lights! Actually kinda cool. Instead of one or two bulbs blazing, theres a plastic conduit that branches out in the top of the fridge and it pumps light through those.

Speaking of naptime, according to the baby monitor...that just ended...and I have to go use a lot of electricity to make a buttload of manfood as all our wimmen are working at the hospital today.
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Re: Saving money on electricity
Old 12-25-2005, 02:26 PM   #38
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Re: Saving money on electricity

Will those of you who have a "Kill-a-Watt" please share with me the mfg? I have relatives who own a marina. When told them about the device they said electrical consumption is a big deal on a boat. They would like to consider stocking it for their customers.
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Re: Saving money on electricity
Old 12-25-2005, 09:47 PM   #39
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Re: Saving money on electricity

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Will those of you who have a "Kill-a-Watt" please share with me the mfg?
Amazon is selling a $30 version by P3 International but the shipping was $25.* That may be Hawaii's "Paradise Tax" or a retailer may be able to get a better deal.

I bought mine yesterday from eBay's "thermalkool" in Florida for $29.64.* I can't get the link to come up (http://cm.ebay.com/cm/ck/1065-29392-...tem=7574320024) but the item number is 7574320024.

EDIT: Ah, here's the link.
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Re: Saving money on electricity
Old 12-25-2005, 11:49 PM   #40
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Re: Saving money on electricity

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usage.* About 40% of my bill is 131-200%.* 200% of what?* What baseline??* Argggh!
I checked out PG&E's online residential bills. Man, what convoluted bunch of info.

OK, I'll give the "base line" lingo a try: Remember the past electricity shortages in California? I think the base line is a type of energy conservation rate imposed on customers by PG&E. In other words, they give you a daily/monthly ration of kWh hours at the lowest rate; then, if your usage exceeds the "base line" you advance to the next rate tier and pay more for additional kWhs. Kinda like progressive US Income tax rates, the first buck is taxed at a lower rate...

It is a hassle, but you will pay the least if you can squeeze in to the lower base rates.

Anyway, here is the link to explain baselines. http://www.pge.com/news/news_release...04/040430.html

Electric deregulation sure added another layer of complexity to the aberage Joe's utility bill

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