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Old 02-27-2014, 10:06 AM   #81
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Originally Posted by jollystomper View Post
Unfortunately I have to agree with both of these. Those of us who have been responsible through what we have saved (regardless of the degree of "planning" or "luck" one attributes to that result) are going to be looked on as being responsible for helping others. In addition, if you look at the large percentage of lottery winners who should be set for life but have lost it all in a few years, some folks are always going to be irresponsible no matter what you give them.

DW and I sadly have more than a few relatives with the attitude of "because you have done well, you need to help us out, and we don't have any responsibility with being disciplined with what you help us out with". Many feel that the majority of those who are FI really "cheated" their way to that position, while they were "honest".
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Funny, I had not thought of it that way, but you are right... I have about a dozen relatives that I just don't see how they are going to get by in their older age. We have given more than several thousands of dollars to help them that we don't expect to get almost any of it back (though they were supposed to be "loans", we knew this at the time, and chose to only give what we knew we wouldn't miss if it was not paid back). We aren't "bottomless pits" and have drawn the line with several of them, who are now very resentful of us. As you said, this might be a sad microcosm of things to come.
There seems to be some universal paradox in giving. I have noticed something similar trying to help individuals and NGOs in SE Asia. My wife and I paid the rent for a school for very poor kids that would have gone under had we not supported it, because we felt so bad for the kids. But no matter who you try to help, you are never be seen as a hero, but rather as a patsy. We were stretched giving this, but there was never an honest thanks, just telling us how much more was needed.

I found out later to my disappointment, that the guy running the school even belittled our contribution, telling the teachers there that I got it all back from the U.S. government, so it really was costing me nothing. Of course it was 100% after tax money, you can't even declare this kind of donation on your taxes. The idea was not something like "Thank you for helping us so much", but rather, something like "If you can give this, you must have more, why do you give so little?"

I found out later, that the people there in general have NO respect for the foreigners who come and open an NGO (Charity), or who give money, none whatsoever. They see them just as easy marks. I suspect this is true for the family members one tries to help also. The more you help, the less you are respected.

What I found out they DO respect however, is businesses and a job. Foreigners who come there and open a business, and make them work hard and pay them an honest wage. They do respect these people.

Families, charities, political parties, whomever, once you help out, you looked down upon for not helping more. Now I know why so many people give anonymously.
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Old 02-27-2014, 10:30 AM   #82
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note to self:

Don't blow 200k in student loans on an education that won't earn enough to pay off the student loans.

You'ld be further ahead by asking "do you want fries with that".
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Old 02-27-2014, 02:14 PM   #83
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I had a neighbor whose retirement plan was to inherit his uncle's coin collection which he valued at about $65,000. Even if he got the collection, I wonder if he ever did the math. He ended up moving to Las Vegas, an most appropriate place for a guy with those type of retirement plans.
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Old 02-27-2014, 05:41 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by jollystomper View Post
We aren't "bottomless pits" and have drawn the line with several of them, who are now very resentful of us. As you said, this might be a sad microcosm of things to come.
While thankfully not a dozen we have run into this also as have many others here and we can see some others developing. The "Bank of Walt34 and DW" is now firmly closed.
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Old 02-27-2014, 11:40 PM   #85
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Originally Posted by CaliforniaMan View Post
There seems to be some universal paradox in giving. I have noticed something similar trying to help individuals and NGOs in SE Asia. My wife and I paid the rent for a school for very poor kids that would have gone under had we not supported it, because we felt so bad for the kids. But no matter who you try to help, you are never be seen as a hero, but rather as a patsy. We were stretched giving this, but there was never an honest thanks, just telling us how much more was needed.

I found out later to my disappointment, that the guy running the school even belittled our contribution, telling the teachers there that I got it all back from the U.S. government, so it really was costing me nothing. Of course it was 100% after tax money, you can't even declare this kind of donation on your taxes. The idea was not something like "Thank you for helping us so much", but rather, something like "If you can give this, you must have more, why do you give so little?"

I found out later, that the people there in general have NO respect for the foreigners who come and open an NGO (Charity), or who give money, none whatsoever. They see them just as easy marks. I suspect this is true for the family members one tries to help also. The more you help, the less you are respected.

What I found out they DO respect however, is businesses and a job. Foreigners who come there and open a business, and make them work hard and pay them an honest wage. They do respect these people.

Families, charities, political parties, whomever, once you help out, you looked down upon for not helping more. Now I know why so many people give anonymously.

Very insightful. I did not realize that perception of givers.
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