Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
See you in Court
Old 05-09-2015, 12:30 PM   #1
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Indialantic FL
Posts: 1,196
See you in Court

That is what I was told by the man who refuses to sign over the title for a mobile home that I purchased in 2009. The home and lot were transferred by Deed to me and DW. Background: In 2014 we discovered mobile home we had purchased has a title. (I know, pretty stupid of us, in our defense however the mobile home we owned right next door to the one in question, did not have a title.) Since Sept 2014, the title holder has been contacted at least 4x by the attorney (who did our closing in 2009)by registered mail (and at least 4 phone calls) . We contacted him 2x by phone, the first time he said "I feel your pain" when I told him his actions were costing me money. He also said he couldn't promise he'd do anything about it. Then earlier this week when we had exhausted all attempts at a work around through the Dept of Motor Vehicles, the DMV told us that we had no choice but to file suit against the title holder to compel him to sign over the title. (Basically what the lawyer had told us several weeks ago). So we called the guy again and left a message that he is leaving us no choice but to take him to court. So about 10 minutes later he called back telling us we shouldn't have threatened him and that he'd see us in court.

We talk to the lawyer again on Weds and will likely file a civil suit. Anybody else ever have a situation like this?
__________________

__________________
JimnJana
"The four most dangerous words in investing are 'This time it's different.'" - Sir John Templeton
jimnjana is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 05-09-2015, 12:45 PM   #2
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
gauss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,707
No direct experience here, but a few questions:

Could you ask him if there is anything that is preventing him from signing over to you or anything that you can do to help in the transaction?

Other then that I can only speculate on two motivations
#1 He doesn't want to have to read the legal documents and commit himself to something, that he may not understand, that he sees as unnecessary.

#2 He is trying to take advantage of the situation.

Do you know if you can suit and collect for your costs in this matter, ie they would be paid by him?

Do you know if he is collectable (ie has a job, or bank account, or assets)?

If he is noncollectable then he may not be in a hurry to do anything without a court order.

-gauss
__________________

__________________
gauss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2015, 01:20 PM   #3
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
calmloki's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Independence
Posts: 5,459
I've done cash for keys twice. Made me feel real hostile and just plain offended me. Tried to convince myself that it was logical and less expensive than going to court but it still irked me enough that it was tough not spending the extra money on a lawyer. See if the guy wants a little baksheesh and compare it to what your lawyer wants. Good luck with your emotional response.
__________________
calmloki is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2015, 01:30 PM   #4
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 13,263
I would think that if you had a lawyer representing you when you first bought the trailer that this error should be fixed by him... I would insist on it...

OR, what about the title company If you have title insurance then shouldn't they pay to make sure you have clean title in all aspects?



Soon after I bought my house I got a letter from a tax authority saying taxes had not been paid for two years... called up title company and they took care of it...
__________________
Texas Proud is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2015, 02:15 PM   #5
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: seattle
Posts: 643
Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas Proud View Post
I would think that if you had a lawyer representing you when you first bought the trailer that this error should be fixed by him... I would insist on it...

OR, what about the title company If you have title insurance then shouldn't they pay to make sure you have clean title in all aspects?



Soon after I bought my house I got a letter from a tax authority saying taxes had not been paid for two years... called up title company and they took care of it...
Title co. was my first thought, too, but if the mobile has a title, it's personal property and likely excluded from the policy.
__________________
bld999 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2015, 03:12 PM   #6
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
youbet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 9,965
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimnjana View Post
That is what I was told by the man who refuses to sign over the title for a mobile home that I purchased in 2009. The home and lot were transferred by Deed to me and DW. Background: In 2014 we discovered mobile home we had purchased has a title. (I know, pretty stupid of us, in our defense however the mobile home we owned right next door to the one in question, did not have a title.) Since Sept 2014, the title holder has been contacted at least 4x by the attorney (who did our closing in 2009)by registered mail (and at least 4 phone calls) . We contacted him 2x by phone, the first time he said "I feel your pain" when I told him his actions were costing me money. He also said he couldn't promise he'd do anything about it. Then earlier this week when we had exhausted all attempts at a work around through the Dept of Motor Vehicles, the DMV told us that we had no choice but to file suit against the title holder to compel him to sign over the title. (Basically what the lawyer had told us several weeks ago). So we called the guy again and left a message that he is leaving us no choice but to take him to court. So about 10 minutes later he called back telling us we shouldn't have threatened him and that he'd see us in court.

We talk to the lawyer again on Weds and will likely file a civil suit. Anybody else ever have a situation like this?
Are you sure the deed transferred the mobile home to you and not just the lot? IE., it takes both a deed and a title to own the mobile home in your state?

If you indeed need a title in your state, does your lawyer admit he/she screwed up at the closing and is at fault?

Do you have any idea why the title holder feels he wants to see you in court? Is there some reason why he thinks he has something in his favor to tell the judge? It just isn't passing the common sense test that he wants to tell the judge he sold you the trailer but refuses to hand over the title because he is a jerk. What does he want to get out of this? Are there some circumstances that would explain his position other than he needs to be made an offer he can't refuse?
__________________
"I wasn't born blue blood. I was born blue-collar." John Wort Hannam
youbet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2015, 04:27 PM   #7
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Indialantic FL
Posts: 1,196
Quote:
Originally Posted by youbet View Post
Are you sure the deed transferred the mobile home to you and not just the lot? IE., it takes both a deed and a title to own the mobile home in your state?

If you indeed need a title in your state, does your lawyer admit he/she screwed up at the closing and is at fault?

Do you have any idea why the title holder feels he wants to see you in court? Is there some reason why he thinks he has something in his favor to tell the judge? It just isn't passing the common sense test that he wants to tell the judge he sold you the trailer but refuses to hand over the title because he is a jerk. What does he want to get out of this? Are there some circumstances that would explain his position other than he needs to be made an offer he can't refuse?
The mobile home is identified by model/vin on the deed. yes, the closing attorney screwed up (that is likely why he is trying to resolve the issue with the previous owner). I have already been told I have a good case against him by another SC real estate lawyer. Wish I knew what would motivate someone to act like he is. He may have issues with the attorney, but putting me in the middle is the wrong thing to do.
__________________
JimnJana
"The four most dangerous words in investing are 'This time it's different.'" - Sir John Templeton
jimnjana is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2015, 04:30 PM   #8
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Indialantic FL
Posts: 1,196
Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas Proud View Post
I would think that if you had a lawyer representing you when you first bought the trailer that this error should be fixed by him... I would insist on it...

OR, what about the title company If you have title insurance then shouldn't they pay to make sure you have clean title in all aspects?



Soon after I bought my house I got a letter from a tax authority saying taxes had not been paid for two years... called up title company and they took care of it...
We were buying from our neighbor, not that we saw much of him as our properties were vacation homes. We didn't do title insurance and we didn't have a lawyer. (only property we ever did this with)
__________________
JimnJana
"The four most dangerous words in investing are 'This time it's different.'" - Sir John Templeton
jimnjana is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2015, 04:34 PM   #9
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Indialantic FL
Posts: 1,196
Quote:
Originally Posted by calmloki View Post
I've done cash for keys twice. Made me feel real hostile and just plain offended me. Tried to convince myself that it was logical and less expensive than going to court but it still irked me enough that it was tough not spending the extra money on a lawyer. See if the guy wants a little baksheesh and compare it to what your lawyer wants. Good luck with your emotional response.
The lawyer who handled the original closing is having another lawyer file the suit on his/my behalf. He is eating the cost, so it is not a bill I will be paying. I title holder told my real estate agent that he would have to get a refund from the closing attorney and an apology and then maybe he'd get the title to me.
__________________
JimnJana
"The four most dangerous words in investing are 'This time it's different.'" - Sir John Templeton
jimnjana is offline   Reply With Quote
See you in Court
Old 05-09-2015, 05:35 PM   #10
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Chuckanut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: West of the Mississippi
Posts: 6,326
See you in Court

Have somebody enter the trailer, fall on some loose flooring, be injured, and then start screaming for a lawyer to sue the owner.
__________________
The worst decisions are usually made in times of anger and impatience.
Chuckanut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2015, 07:57 PM   #11
Full time employment: Posting here.
Silver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Orlando, Fl
Posts: 580
In my experience, some people are just mean. And making someone else's life difficult is their entertainment. Makes them feel powerful and important, I guess.

I would assume that if you sued him, you could state that he knowingly withheld the title at the time of sale, which is illegal. I'd add some damages in there somehow, and require a written apology.
__________________
You're only crazy if you're poor. If you have money, you're eccentric.
Silver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2015, 08:37 PM   #12
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
pb4uski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Vermont & Sarasota, FL
Posts: 16,393
If it is what you say then it should be easy for a court to rule in your favor and order the title transferred to you without his signature. You say this issue is "costing you money" - how? If so, you should sue him to make you whole for those damages plus your attorney fees.

I'm not sure what he thinks he has to gain other than being a jerk and making your life miserable.

Worst case, it will cost him big time in defense fees, any award for your damages and attorney fees and potential punitive damages (though that is probably unlikely unless he pi$$es off the judge).

Your lawyer should call him and tell him he has two choices.... sign today or continue to refuse and be sued tomorrow and you'll ask the court for the title, $x for your damages and $y for your court costs and $z in punitive damages and get it and then he'll need to pay for his lawyer too.

If he thinks his downside is a lot worse than his upside, then perhaps he'll change his mind and sign. Sometimes you just need to be a pr!ck.
__________________
If something cannot endure laughter.... it cannot endure.
Patience is the art of concealing your impatience.
Slow and steady wins the race.
pb4uski is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2015, 09:06 PM   #13
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Florence, AL/Helen, GA
Posts: 2,092
My first question is whether anyone has run a title search on the mobile home.
Is the title in the name of the seller?
Is there a lienholder on the title, and is the title free and clear? Those buying mobile homes most often finance them, and relatively few trailers have been paid off in 6 years.
Are there ad valorem (personal property) taxes that remain unpaid?

If you've got to sue the guy, get it on. You have no option. And be sure to sue him for all attorney's charges and court costs while you're at it. While you're at it, sue the original closing attorney at the same time for missing this detail.

After all, civil courts are there for settling disputes. When you're right, you're right.
__________________
Bamaman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2015, 10:10 PM   #14
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
pb4uski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Vermont & Sarasota, FL
Posts: 16,393
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimnjana View Post
The lawyer who handled the original closing is having another lawyer file the suit on his/my behalf. He is eating the cost, so it is not a bill I will be paying. I title holder told my real estate agent that he would have to get a refund from the closing attorney and an apology and then maybe he'd get the title to me.
What is the title holder expecting a refund for? From what you said it sounds like the closing attorney messed up and is just trying to make it right, so why would the title holder expect a refund?
__________________
If something cannot endure laughter.... it cannot endure.
Patience is the art of concealing your impatience.
Slow and steady wins the race.
pb4uski is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2015, 12:39 AM   #15
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 13,263
Quote:
Originally Posted by bld999 View Post
Title co. was my first thought, too, but if the mobile has a title, it's personal property and likely excluded from the policy.

He is saying he bought the home and lot as one transaction.... so I would think it should be part of the title company's job that you have clear title to it...

If not, then I still would fall back on the attorney...
__________________
Texas Proud is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2015, 05:11 AM   #16
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
ls99's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 4,792
As noted earlier, your original lawyer screwed up. Nice to see he is eating the cost, though still hassle for you. He can pay for it out of pocket or cover it with with his errrors and omissions insurance.
__________________
There must be moderation in everything, including moderation.
ls99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2015, 03:25 PM   #17
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Indialantic FL
Posts: 1,196
Quote:
Originally Posted by pb4uski View Post
What is the title holder expecting a refund for? From what you said it sounds like the closing attorney messed up and is just trying to make it right, so why would the title holder expect a refund?
For his share of the closing costs when I purchased the place (160 bucks).
__________________
JimnJana
"The four most dangerous words in investing are 'This time it's different.'" - Sir John Templeton
jimnjana is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2015, 03:32 PM   #18
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Indialantic FL
Posts: 1,196
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bamaman View Post
My first question is whether anyone has run a title search on the mobile home.
Is the title in the name of the seller?
Is there a lienholder on the title, and is the title free and clear? .
Good quetions. With no help from the title holder the closing attorney, our real estate agent and us were able to remove the lien holder from the title. It appears likely that PHH mortgage mishandled the title after the loan was paid off with the funds from when I bought it. The lawyer had to request from PHH a duplicate lien satisfaction letter from them. This was done last year, it tootk several months for the DMV to update the title history. So, officially the lien was not removed until 2014.
__________________
JimnJana
"The four most dangerous words in investing are 'This time it's different.'" - Sir John Templeton
jimnjana is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2015, 04:10 PM   #19
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Indialantic FL
Posts: 1,196
Quote:
Originally Posted by pb4uski View Post
If it is what you say then it should be easy for a court to rule in your favor and order the title transferred to you without his signature. You say this issue is "costing you money" - how? .
The title issue is preventing the sale of the property. The way I discovered the problem last year was when I went to sell it and the attorney I was using did a title search. So, I lost one sale last year, which I'm not that upset about....as the property values moved much higher. The damages that I will seek will be 30 to 60 days after the date he was notified of a problem (sept 2014) until the date the title is handed over to me. The damages are the funds I have paid for up keep of the property, taxes, utilities, and insurance. I'll be talking to the attorney this week to see if I can get lost income as well since this was a vacation rental and it has been sitting empty since the November. I'm not sure if my time frame for damages will fly or not. What ever the lawyer recommends will likely be what I ask for.
__________________
JimnJana
"The four most dangerous words in investing are 'This time it's different.'" - Sir John Templeton
jimnjana is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2015, 07:28 AM   #20
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
pb4uski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Vermont & Sarasota, FL
Posts: 16,393
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimnjana View Post
For his share of the closing costs when I purchased the place (160 bucks).
That's a bit silly of him and he received closing services from the lawyer, albeit poor service. I guess perhaps since the services were poor he thinks he should not have to pay anything at all. I can see that but if $160 is standing in the way then the attorney (or you) should just give him a $160 refund.
__________________

__________________
If something cannot endure laughter.... it cannot endure.
Patience is the art of concealing your impatience.
Slow and steady wins the race.
pb4uski is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Does computer you use affect what you see? kaneohe Other topics 2 07-18-2013 01:28 PM
Do you see your neighborhood differently now that you're there all the time? Tree-dweller Life after FIRE 57 03-26-2012 05:42 PM
Can you believe what you see you hear? calmloki Other topics 3 05-18-2011 10:41 AM
Oldest Clothing You Still Wear Where People Can See You Amethyst Other topics 49 03-25-2009 07:58 AM
See @ Last, See @ Last, Thank God I Can See @ Last Beachbumz Other topics 24 02-18-2005 08:16 PM

 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:55 PM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.