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Re: Selecting Guns for Personal Protection
Old 09-06-2005, 06:34 PM   #21
 
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Re: Selecting Guns for Personal Protection

How about some body-armor pajamas, just in case?
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Re: Selecting Guns for Personal Protection
Old 09-06-2005, 06:36 PM   #22
 
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Re: Selecting Guns for Personal Protection

And maybe a kryptonite hat, instead of tin foil . . . .
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Re: Selecting Guns for Personal Protection
Old 09-06-2005, 07:39 PM   #23
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Re: Selecting Guns for Personal Protection

I would still suggest a cyanide capsule in an amulet around your neck . . . just in case all else fails. You don't want to give up any secrets.
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Re: Selecting Guns for Personal Protection
Old 09-06-2005, 08:51 PM   #24
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Re: Selecting Guns for Personal Protection

In general the responses imply personal protection from other people. Those of us who backpack through remote areas are often concerned about bears.

In black bear country, I'm happy to take my chances with pepper spray. They're generally not interested in doing you any more harm than getting to your food.

In grizzly bear country, a sawed off/modified shotgun (modified to reduce pack weight weight). Rifled slugs in case you need them - which I'm happy to report I've never needed. But just because I've never needed them doesn't mean I would hike through grizzly country without.

And in the home setting, the same gun would work just fine for the unwanted intruders. The first two loads are buckshot. Lots of sound, lots of sting, lots of blood, but likely no grievous wounds. Subsequent loads are slugs. If two shots aren't enough deterrent, slugs seem the logical choice.

Never have had to use it at home, and odds are I never will. Never have used my auto insurance or my life insurance either.
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Re: Selecting Guns for Personal Protection
Old 09-06-2005, 08:58 PM   #25
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Re: Selecting Guns for Personal Protection

I would guess that you especially want to avoid using them both on the same day
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Re: Selecting Guns for Personal Protection
Old 09-06-2005, 11:31 PM   #26
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Re: Selecting Guns for Personal Protection

Also post your question on www.thehighroad.org ... lots of very knowledgeable, helpful folks there ... expert civilian shooters, LEO's (law enforcement officers), military, etc.* I'll throw in my $0.02 from what I've learned.

Remington 870 pump shotgun with an 18 inch barrel is the classic home defense firearm.* Takes more aiming than implied above, but it is an excellent defensive firearm ... can fire 00 buckshot, bird shot, slugs, etc.* Very versatile.

There are rifles that fire the same ammo as handguns.* For example, Marlin makes excellent lever action rifles that fire .44 magnum, .357 magnum ... both popular cartridges for revolvers.* However, such rifles do not have the range / punch of a rifle firing a true rifle cartridge.

One of the best defensive rifles is a Bushmaster AR-15 ... more suitable for rural than urban defense due to the range of rifles / overpenetration.* Less expensive is an AK-47, and reliable (NO, this is not a "machine gun" ... just a vilified semiauto rifle).* Both are quite legal in most states (CA is a notable exception.* I note you're from Indiana ... check out www.packing.org/state/indiana/ ... appears to be a free state ... Indiana State Constitution Article I, Section 32:* "The people shall have a right to bear arms, for the defense of themselves and the State.")

Great handguns are Glocks, Smith & Wesson revolvers (stainless steel sounds good for you), Ruger revolvers, Sig's, H&K, perhaps in that order considering your comments.

Try to standardize on cartridges ... 9mm / .40 / .45 ACP for semi-auto pistols, .38 / .357 mag / .44 mag for revolvers.* Usually .223 or 7.62 x 39 for the rifle.* 12 gauge for the shotgun.

Bottom line is you can spend hours debating the relative merits of different firearms for different uses, but these are some classic choices.

Definitely get some training ... not too expensive, can usually take some good courses over the weekends, consider concealed carry training even if you don't want the permit (they'll spend a lot of appropriate time discussing the psychological and legal ramifications of armed self defense).

Then seek out intelligent storage devices ... if you have one or two firearms that make up your main defense, they should be clean, sighted in, loaded, and stored in a secure container ... they make pistol safes, a riflelocker (also for shotgun storage), etc.* Yes, you'll have people tell you it's foolish to store a loaded firearm ... but if you ever need it, it is more foolish to have it unloaded.* The right storage container makes it a moot point ... you're preparing for an event you hope never occurs ... but does in this country many times a day. And that storage container will keep the firearm away from unauthorized users, but quickly available to you and anyone else you authorize.

Best of luck.
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Re: Selecting Guns for Personal Protection
Old 09-07-2005, 12:29 AM   #27
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Re: Selecting Guns for Personal Protection

A troubling aspect sometimes seen on this board is that some of you prefer your prejudices to someone else's direct experience.* A poster says that there have been rapes and sodomies in a building where he lived. That seems like pretty good evidence that guns are not as useless as some would have us believe.

Then come the sarcastic comments about Kryptonite, etc. I guess this is true believers in action. Guns are bad. No further thought needed.

Ha
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Re: Selecting Guns for Personal Protection
Old 09-07-2005, 12:41 AM   #28
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Re: Selecting Guns for Personal Protection

For those who like the idea of a pump-action shotgun, but don't like the risk of your spouse using it against you, just play this a few times to thwart intruders:

pump-action

We actually have a motion-activated alarm that plays a realistic sound effect of a large dog barking, but I think I'll mix in some pump-action for a little added oomph.
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Re: Selecting Guns for Personal Protection
Old 09-07-2005, 12:42 AM   #29
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Re: Selecting Guns for Personal Protection

Quote:
Originally Posted by HaHa
A troubling aspect sometimes seen on this board is that some of you prefer your prejudices to someone else's direct experience.* A poster says that there have been rapes and sodomies in a building where he lived. That seems like pretty good evidence that guns are not as useless as some would have us believe.

Then come the sarcastic comments about Kryptonite, etc. I guess this is true believers in action. Guns are bad. No further thought needed.

Ha
With all due respect, Ha. *The gun toters seem to reason: "There is evil in the world. *Therefore, owning a gun will help me." *Where is the proof? the thought? *the reason? *

Despite all evidence to the contrary, gun proponents believe they are safer owning a gun. *They have never been in a situation when they could use a gun to safety advantage, but they are convinced owning a gun makes them safer. *They hear a story about some evil in the world and jump to the conclusion that owning a gun will protect them from that evil. *They hear stories about guns being used against their owners and choose to ignore this information. *

Buy a gun if it makes you feel warm and fuzzy. *But don't try to convince thinking people that you are safer for owning that gun without some real supporting data. *
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Re: Selecting Guns for Personal Protection
Old 09-07-2005, 01:01 AM   #30
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Re: Selecting Guns for Personal Protection

Another vote for "gunowners are stupid" ...

If guns don't help stop crime, pray tell, why does law enforcement use them? Oh ... they are in a different position because they look for and encounter more criminals? We call them criminals because they commit crimes, usually first against civilians.

SG, all of it seems so simple, doesn't it. I call it the entomology effect ... to the average person, a bug is a bug. To an entomologist, they are all quite different.

Until you've studied the subject (firearm history, safety issues, mechanical features, etc.), it all sounds so simple ... and it is so easy to believe the illogical blather distributed by the anti-self defense crowd.

Check out www.mothersarms.org ... a group of logical women who understand the police usually show up in time to draw the chalk lines and take witness statements.
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Re: Selecting Guns for Personal Protection
Old 09-07-2005, 04:52 AM   #31
 
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Re: Selecting Guns for Personal Protection

The pro-gun extremists evidently feel like they're entitled to be a one-man judge, jury, and executioner. Also a supplier of guns to criminals who sneak into their houses and take unsecured guns (yes, we know, "I never leave my gun blah, blah, blah"). And a supplier to Columbine-like kids looking for a good time.
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Re: Selecting Guns for Personal Protection
Old 09-07-2005, 07:46 AM   #32
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Re: Selecting Guns for Personal Protection

C'mon guys. As we have learned from many a diatribe, people are never convinced of any alternate position through challenges on a forum.

In this topic, as with religion or politics, most people have long ago formed their opinions, and these positions are not merely a conclusion based on the weight of facts and figures on one side or another - they are much more complex.

Or as my wife might say, "Yes, every thing you have just said is probably true. I don't care."

BTW - In over 30 years, I have been unable to convince my wife to even try shooting a firearm -- even though I made my living for several years as a firearms instructor.

Her position: "I don't want to, I'd be panicked and wouldn't be able to, and anyway, why should I, when you are here?"

And even though that logic is not 100% sound (I might NOT be here...), I know that I'm not going to convince her, especially by assailing her position.

So -- calmly present any position you may hold, and present your perspectives all you want. But let's keep the debates amicable, huh?
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Re: Selecting Guns for Personal Protection
Old 09-07-2005, 08:09 AM   #33
 
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Re: Selecting Guns for Personal Protection

Hi, Dory -- I, for one, will do whatever you say, since it's your board (or at least I think it is . However, it seems to me that these overly controversial topics, which have just about nothing to do with early retirement, are opened by the same handful of posters, or other threads are hijacked by the same guys for their own purposes every time. One openly admits that gun-ism is his most sensitive hot button. Once starter or hijacked, the threads get nasty. If these few instigators would cut it out, the forum might be able to return to the topic of early retirement. The English-speaking world doesn't need to see the USA's dirty laundry re killing people, etc, any more than it already does.

If this is your forum, thanks very much - - I have learned quite a lot from the more restrained people who post here.
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Re: Selecting Guns for Personal Protection
Old 09-07-2005, 09:55 AM   #34
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Re: Selecting Guns for Personal Protection

SG, look at your own posts, and note the lack of reference material and citations ... this isn't the place for a detailed debate.

As noted above, this is a retirement forum.* There have been some logical questions, and I and others have attempted to give our best advice based upon experience.* If you really want to study this issue honestly, you've now got some tools to do so.
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Re: Selecting Guns for Personal Protection
Old 09-07-2005, 10:03 AM   #35
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Re: Selecting Guns for Personal Protection

It shouldn't require more than a few posts to state your position, your objections to others' positions, then a clarification of your positions...

Then, it's time to move on.

As far as baiting goes, don't bite!*
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Re: Selecting Guns for Personal Protection
Old 09-07-2005, 11:38 AM   #36
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Re: Selecting Guns for Personal Protection

Quote:
Originally Posted by dory36
Or as my wife might say, "Yes, every thing you have just said is probably true. I don't care."
You have one of those too? "Thats very interesting, now...[whatever she said we were going to do]"
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Re: Selecting Guns for Personal Protection
Old 09-07-2005, 12:31 PM   #37
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Re: Selecting Guns for Personal Protection

Quote:
Originally Posted by bogart
The pro-gun extremists evidently feel like they're entitled to be a one-man judge, jury, and executioner. Also a supplier of guns to criminals who sneak into their houses and take unsecured guns (yes, we know, "I never leave my gun blah, blah, blah"). And a supplier to Columbine-like kids looking for a good time.
What is the definition of a "pro-gun extremists"?
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Re: Selecting Guns for Personal Protection
Old 09-07-2005, 01:30 PM   #38
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Re: Selecting Guns for Personal Protection

Quote:
Originally Posted by dex
What is the definition of a "pro-gun extremists"?
Apparently someone who does not agree with the "anti-gun extremists".
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Re: Selecting Guns for Personal Protection
Old 09-07-2005, 01:46 PM   #39
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Re: Selecting Guns for Personal Protection

Quote:
Originally Posted by dex
What is the definition of a "pro-gun extremists"?
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveR
Apparently someone who does not agree with the "anti-gun extremists".
What would happen if they were both guests on "Crossfire"?

Sorry, Al, if I'm putting words in your beaver's mouth...
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Re: Selecting Guns for Personal Protection
Old 09-07-2005, 04:41 PM   #40
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Re: Selecting Guns for Personal Protection

Beavers have mouths?

Aiyeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!
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