Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 08-07-2007, 06:39 PM   #21
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,898
Quote:
Originally Posted by wildcat View Post
Oldbabe -

Talk is cheap, even cheaper when it comes from politicians.
I don't think that sort of cynicism will achieve anything. Frankly, I think it's an excuse to complain and sit back and feel superior and do nothing to inform yourself and participate in the process.
__________________

__________________
Zoocat is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 08-07-2007, 06:51 PM   #22
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
wildcat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Lou-evil
Posts: 2,025
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldbabe View Post
I don't think that sort of cynicism will achieve anything. Frankly, I think it's an excuse to complain and sit back and feel superior and do nothing to inform yourself and participate in the process.
If I vote each election, I participate! But whatever you want to think it means so be it. Serves me right for participating in a political thread. BTW, I am typing this while sitting back and hovering above everyone in my superior chair.
__________________

__________________
"These walls are kind of funny. First you hate 'em, then you get used to 'em. Enough time passes, gets so you depend on them"
wildcat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2007, 07:07 PM   #23
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,898
Quote:
Originally Posted by wildcat View Post
If I vote each election, I participate! But whatever you want to think it means so be it. Serves me right for participating in a political thread. BTW, I am typing this while sitting back and hovering above everyone in my superior chair.
Good. I hope you enjoy the raified air.
__________________
Zoocat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2007, 07:34 PM   #24
Moderator Emeritus
laurence's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: San Diego
Posts: 5,234
Quote:
Originally Posted by wildcat View Post
If I vote each election, I participate! But whatever you want to think it means so be it. Serves me right for participating in a political thread. BTW, I am typing this while sitting back and hovering above everyone in my superior chair.

I can see this playing out on "Family Guy" - chair legs knocking the rest of us in our head as it hovers around - "Ouch!" "Sorry!"
__________________
laurence is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2007, 10:51 PM   #25
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern IL
Posts: 18,255
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldbabe View Post

dropping the Bush tax cuts, which will be necessary if our country is going to take care of future expenses without resorting to the national credit card held by the Japanese and Chinese.
Oldbabe, wanna explain this? :

SOI Tax Stats - Collecting Revenue

Total
Internal
Revenue
collections [1, 2]

1999 1,904,151,888

2005 2,268,895,122


Looks like the Bush 'tax cuts' resulted in more total taxes collected. More details at the link.

I would agree with you that the spending side is out of control. That should be fixed. I don't think higher tax rates are the answer.

-ERD50
__________________
ERD50 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2007, 01:04 AM   #26
Dryer sheet aficionado
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by ERD50 View Post
Oldbabe, wanna explain this? :

SOI Tax Stats - Collecting Revenue

Total
Internal
Revenue
collections [1, 2]

1999 1,904,151,888

2005 2,268,895,122


Looks like the Bush 'tax cuts' resulted in more total taxes collected. More details at the link.

I would agree with you that the spending side is out of control. That should be fixed. I don't think higher tax rates are the answer.

-ERD50
I'll take a shot....

Who was it that said "There are lies, damn lies, and statistics?"

year ....Reciepts ...% change
====+==========+=======
1997 ....1,637,157 ....9.12
1998 ....1,782,997 ....8.91
1999 ....1,917,643 ....7.55
2000 ....2,112,755 ....10.17
2001 ....2,144,654 ....1.51
2002 ....2,033,661 ...(-5.18)
2003 ....1,969,648 ...(-3.15)
2004 ....2,035,761 ....3.36
2005 ....2,286,837 ....12.33
2006 ....2,536,771 ....10.93

Now I do see a nice bump in the last couple of years, but can anyone guess when the tax cuts took effect?



More fun with statistics :-)

Total increase in receipts in 1993 - 1999 = +61%

Total increase receipts in 1999 - 2005 = +19%
__________________
jefipius is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2007, 03:40 AM   #27
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 5,072
Didn't Walter "Fritz" Mondale run against G H Bush and say make the statement the taxes would need to be raised. Bush won the election. If I remember correctly, this was cited as Fritz's downfall.

Generally speaking most Americans are not interested in more taxes. HC would probably be better off just talking up the freebies rather than how they will be paid for.

This is going to be an interesting Presidential race. I believe HC has a chance. But it is so early anything could happen.

I am a middle-ground independent. When the Dems want to start doing social engineering via taxes, that when I start looking at a more conservative option. Hopefully we get some level-headed moderate candidates. The extreme ends of conservative or liberal are not appealing at all.
__________________
chinaco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2007, 08:05 AM   #28
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,898
None of you has addressed the almost 8 trillion and rising federal debt. Everyone is in denial. I give up. I'm going on vacation. Bye!
__________________
Zoocat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2007, 08:12 AM   #29
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern IL
Posts: 18,255
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldbabe View Post
None of you has addressed the almost 8 trillion and rising federal debt. Everyone is in denial. I give up. I'm going on vacation. Bye!
What is THIS??

Quote:
I would agree with you that the spending side is out of control. That should be fixed. I don't think higher tax rates are the answer.

-ERD50
Perhaps you ae in denial of *everyone* being in denial?

Have a nice vacation. -ERD50
__________________
ERD50 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2007, 08:27 AM   #30
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern IL
Posts: 18,255
Quote:
Originally Posted by jefipius View Post
I'll take a shot....

Who was it that said "There are lies, damn lies, and statistics?"

....

More fun with statistics :-)

Total increase in receipts in 1993 - 1999 = +61%

Total increase receipts in 1999 - 2005 = +19%
Well, I took a stab at making more sense of the numbers, and it really is pretty tough. The dotcom boom/bust leading up to 2000 throws a monkey wrench in any analysis (at least for me). Not sure why you chose 1999, Bush took office in Jan 2001. Clinton was in office all of 2000.

The best I could come up with is, the average of collections as a percent of GDP was:

19.38% for years 1993-2000 and
18.81% for years 2001-2006

pretty small change overall. I think spending and the burst of dotcom have had more to do with the increasing deficit than lower tax rates and higher brackets.

As others have pointed out - the lower class and middle class have benefited from the tax cuts. But, if you already hate Bush, it's so easy to blame the tax cuts for everything and call them tax cuts for the 'rich'.

If you want to hate Bush, hate him for not controlling spending .

-ERD50
__________________
ERD50 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2007, 08:53 AM   #31
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
wildcat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Lou-evil
Posts: 2,025
Quote:
Originally Posted by ERD50 View Post
What is THIS??



Perhaps you ae in denial of *everyone* being in denial?

Have a nice vacation. -ERD50
That was a political rant followed by a meltdown. It is an example of what we try to avoid around here but those "touchy" subjects (healthcare, politics, religion, etc.) almost always guarantee at least one. There are always posters who take the bait, me included

*WARNING*
Starting politically driven threads is not good for your health and will likely result in a meltdown. Those of you who have high blood pressure or are prone to high blood pressure may want to consult your physician prior to starting a political thread. Side effects may include: not being able to convince others of your political views no matter how hard you try and the standard -- nausea, dry mouth, weight gain, dizziness, etc.
__________________
"These walls are kind of funny. First you hate 'em, then you get used to 'em. Enough time passes, gets so you depend on them"
wildcat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2007, 10:42 AM   #32
Moderator Emeritus
laurence's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: San Diego
Posts: 5,234
I'm quite surprised at this, since I considered this one of the most level, polite, well mannered political discussions I've yet read. I would love to participate in threads of this nature, unfortunately, most turn into shouting matches.
__________________
laurence is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2007, 10:50 AM   #33
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern IL
Posts: 18,255
Quote:
Originally Posted by wildcat View Post
That was a political rant followed by a meltdown.
wildcat, I guess I am as confused as laurencewill appears to be.

Where was the 'meltdown'

I see some numbers and opinions being discussed, no real name calling or convoluted stuff.

Did I miss something?

-ERD50
__________________
ERD50 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2007, 11:08 AM   #34
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
wildcat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Lou-evil
Posts: 2,025
Just appeared the OP got angry that we weren't addressing her (I assume) concerns or Hilary's concerns and marched off into the sunset. Maybe I read it wrong too, now I am confused.

I don't care if people can debate politics in civil manner and I too find it interesting to see both sides. It just doesn't always end well and that was the reason behind my bad attempt of humor with the warning.

Continue the thread, carry on...
__________________
"These walls are kind of funny. First you hate 'em, then you get used to 'em. Enough time passes, gets so you depend on them"
wildcat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2007, 01:01 PM   #35
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
FinanceDude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 12,484
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldbabe View Post
None of you has addressed the almost 8 trillion and rising federal debt. Everyone is in denial. I give up. I'm going on vacation. Bye!
Ok, here's the answer:

1)Spend less
2)Raise Taxes
3)Do a combination of the above two........

NOONE in Washington wants to do ANY of the above 3..........can't get re-elected or elected on that platform...........
__________________
Consult with your own advisor or representative. My thoughts should not be construed as investment advice. Past performance is no guarantee of future results (love that one).......:)


This Thread is USELESS without pics.........:)
FinanceDude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2007, 06:14 PM   #36
Dryer sheet aficionado
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by FinanceDude View Post
Ok, here's the answer:

1)Spend less
2)Raise Taxes
3)Do a combination of the above two........

NOONE in Washington wants to do ANY of the above 3..........can't get re-elected or elected on that platform...........
Reminds me a bit of classic diet advice - Eat less, exercise more, or better yet do both. Recently our national fiscal diet plan has been:

1) Eat more
2) Exercise less
3) Pray that our metabolism (i.e. economy) speeds up to magically solve all of our problems.
__________________
jefipius is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2007, 06:35 PM   #37
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
wildcat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Lou-evil
Posts: 2,025
Quote:
Originally Posted by jefipius View Post
Reminds me a bit of classic diet advice - Eat less, exercise more, or better yet do both. Recently our national fiscal diet plan has been:

1) Eat more
2) Exercise less
3) Pray that our metabolism (i.e. economy) speeds up to magically solve all of our problems.
3) Invent something as ground breaking as the Ab Roller.
__________________
"These walls are kind of funny. First you hate 'em, then you get used to 'em. Enough time passes, gets so you depend on them"
wildcat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2007, 02:19 PM   #38
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,898
Quote:
Originally Posted by wildcat View Post
Just appeared the OP got angry that we weren't addressing her (I assume) concerns or Hilary's concerns and marched off into the sunset. Maybe I read it wrong too, now I am confused.

I don't care if people can debate politics in civil manner and I too find it interesting to see both sides. It just doesn't always end well and that was the reason behind my bad attempt of humor with the warning.

Continue the thread, carry on...
Apologies from this OP to all who engaged discussion in this thread. No, it wasn't a meltdown,I wasn't angry just frustrated. I decided to disengage, as I really was leaving for Africa. But, granted, I disengaged in an ungraceful, somewhat childish manner. Sometimes I'm like that. Has nothing to do with being a Hilary supporter or a democratic liberal.
__________________
Zoocat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2007, 06:07 PM   #39
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern IL
Posts: 18,255
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldbabe View Post

.... somewhat childish manner.

..... Has nothing to do with being a Hilary supporter or a democratic liberal.
Are you sure? We might need an independent study on that.

-ERD50
__________________
ERD50 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2007, 06:17 PM   #40
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 5,072
Last time Billary Clinton.

This time Hilliam Clinton.

__________________

__________________
chinaco is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Ohio waitress wins CNBC stock picking contest cute fuzzy bunny Stock Picking and Market Strategy 21 07-20-2007 11:22 PM
The Terhorst Interview Billy Life after FIRE 35 07-11-2007 11:54 PM
CNN vs CNBC or MSNBC KB Other topics 9 07-26-2005 12:24 PM
PETER Berstein Interview nwsteve FIRE and Money 12 10-21-2004 07:36 AM
Heard an Interesting Interview on SS today........ Cut-Throat FIRE and Money 36 09-09-2004 11:07 AM

 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:44 AM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.