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Old 09-23-2007, 08:27 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Bigritchie View Post
It is not about the money, we are not food prostitutes. He was trying to save 69 cents instead of just buying the Veg sub. So he was screwing them out of 69 cents not saving them money.
The special is the special, if they change it for 1 person, they have to change it for EVERYONE to whatever item they want.
Which is worse:
1. A manager who sets up a rule system that people take advantage of, or
2. A manager who sets up a rule system that people take advantage of, and then complains about being taken advantage of?

If management doesn't want to deal with customers who can do math then they shouldn't offer deals that can be exploited by doing math... smiling and saying "Yes, sir, coming right up!" to Al won't cause a run on the house, and may even cause him to come back sometime when there's NOT a special. Charge it off to the marketing budget it if makes people feel better.

There's a reason that stores like Lowes & Home Depot have such generous returns policies.

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Reminds me of the VP of Customer Service at my old company. She was always muttering under her breath (to the other VP's), "If these damn customers would just stop calling us maybe we could get something done!"
When I was working at military training commands my day used to boil down to two nuggets of managerial wisdom:
- If it wasn't for these $%^& students we could get a lot of training done, and
- No, you're supposed to set the room on fire, not the student. Now let's try it again.
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Old 09-23-2007, 08:42 PM   #22
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If management doesn't want to deal with customers who can do math then they shouldn't offer deals that can be exploited by doing math... smiling and saying "Yes, sir, coming right up!" to Al won't cause a run on the house, and may even cause him to come back sometime when there's NOT a special.
On that last point, perhaps we should remember who we are dealing with here?

Ha
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Old 09-23-2007, 08:49 PM   #23
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Could somebody please tell me what ever happened to "The customer is always right"? And why is it that people who are working in "service industries" treat we customers as if THEY are doing US a favor by being there?
You want the customer is always right? Do your shopping at Barney's. Always buy at least $4000 suits, $800 pairs of shoes, $75,000 cars. These salespeople will treat you the way you want to be treated.

But unfortunately they charge more than cheapskates are willing to pay. Always a catch, isn’t there?

Ha
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Old 09-23-2007, 08:49 PM   #24
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On that last point, perhaps we should remember who we are dealing with here?
I do. In fact we've spent a few hours surfing & hanging out together.

You?
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Old 09-23-2007, 08:59 PM   #25
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I think you may have missed my point. My point is that Al, however wonderful he may be as a dude and surfer, or surfer-dude, or dude-surfer, could give Amy Dacsyn a run for her money in the cheap living department. The joke, which is what it was, was that he may the sort of person who only shops for bargains, and thuis may not be all that interested in non-specials.

I am so sorry I seem to have pushed one of your buttons. Please let me apologize.

Ha
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Old 09-23-2007, 09:13 PM   #26
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"Which is worse:
1. A manager who sets up a rule system that people take advantage of, or
2. A manager who sets up a rule system that people take advantage of, and then complains about being taken advantage of?"

Which is worse:
1. A girl being pretty and wearing a sexy outfit that criminals take advantage of, or
2. A girl being pretty and wearing a sexy outfit that criminals take advantage of, and then complain about being taken advantage of?

I am more of a believer in teaching people that taking advantage of someone is wrong.
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Old 09-23-2007, 09:21 PM   #27
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I think you may have missed my point. My point is that Al, however wonderful he may be as a dude and surfer, or surfer-dude, or dude-surfer, could give Amy Dacsyn a run for her money in the cheap living department. The joke, which is what it was, was that he may the sort of person who only shops for bargains, and thuis may not be all that interested in non-specials.
I am so sorry I seem to have pushed one of your buttons. Please let me apologize.
No apology necessary, but people are pushing my "reasonable behavior" button. It's interesting that Al shares his pleasure at exploiting a retailer's loophole and is somehow cast as the bad guy.* I know from my own experience that he's a good guy.

I could understand people's disapproving attitudes if he was stealing condiments or stuffing his pockets from the buffet-- as indeed even Amy Dacyczyn was accused of doing-- but ordering the cheapest available version of a sandwich, and even offering to give back the most expensive part of it, doesn't strike me as cause for castigation.

Al could've stayed home and made the sandwich for a lot less money than he spent at Subway. So maybe "cheap" isn't his motivation? Subway sold a sandwich for a lot more money than it cost them to make it, and they practically forced the meat down his throat in the process. He didn't affect their fixed expenses and he tried to minimize their cost of goods sold. Everybody wins except for the retail pricing employee who's embarrassed by his math skills.

"Stickin' it to the man" is one thing. Civil disobedience is another. But hoisting a retailer on their own "stupid tax" petard-- priceless!

*Meanwhile at least a dozen of this board's regular readers are no doubt haunting their local Subways with calculators...
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Old 09-23-2007, 09:39 PM   #28
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How can it possibly be seen as somehow "screwing" Subway if you order a sandwich, pay the price they ask, and let them keep the most expensive ingredient?

I guess Subway should refuse to allow any ingredients to be removed from the daily special. They should send an employee out to the dining room to assure the customers eat the sandwiches without picking anything off. That's the only way to prevent the egregious cheating that has now been brought to light. Maybe they could staple the sandwiches together as an added deterrent.

Want fair pricing? Charge a la carte for each ingredient and let customers order exactly what they want.

(Edited to add:
One note: It's dangerous to piss off anybody who is preparing your food. Anyone who has worked in the biz could tell lots of stories . . . )
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Old 09-23-2007, 09:45 PM   #29
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I am reminded of an incident in a diner some 30 years ago.

It was lunch time and Mike wanted breakfast. He was told he could not have a fried egg because 'that was breakfast'. He noted there was a fried egg sandwich on the lunch menu and asked for that without the bread and he would pay the regular sandwich price.

I don't recall the details, but Mike finally got his fried egg without any violence.
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Old 09-23-2007, 10:04 PM   #30
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I guess I need to emphasize that I don't think that AL, or anyone else, did anything wrong, or tried to "screw" anybody, etc. etc. I have gotten into these funny situations myself.

But finally I realized that I will never run out of money; that a few bucks here or there will never make any difference to me; and most of all that these clerks often are operating at the extreme top of the complexity of tasks that their IQs will allow. I am rich, smart, and articulate- they are poor, often not so smart, etc. I do not want to complicate their lives, or the life the boss who is also trying to make do in a tough world with sometimes modest gifts. Who also is employing this clerk who may have a baby at home and who needs for all our sakes to be employed.

I also don't want my blood pressure to rise, as I know it likely will if I press something like this.

I figure that I still am getting an amazing amount of stuff for very little money, with ordinarily polite and pleasant service thrown in.

Another factor is that I don't want to really piss off anyone, so that they will go around thinking what an A-hole I am, or maybe put a hex on my back as I leave the store.

But that is just me, and truthfully just me since I have become a “senior citizen”, and when I remember these facts.

Ha
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Old 09-23-2007, 10:40 PM   #31
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How can it possibly be seen as somehow "screwing" Subway if you order a sandwich, pay the price they ask, and let them keep the most expensive ingredient?

I guess Subway should refuse to allow any ingredients to be removed from the daily special. They should send an employee out to the dining room to assure the customers eat the sandwiches without picking anything off. That's the only way to prevent the egregious cheating that has now been brought to light. Maybe they could staple the sandwiches together as an added deterrent.

Want fair pricing? Charge a la carte for each ingredient and let customers order exactly what they want.
He did NOT pay the price they asked, he wanted a VEGETARIAN SUB for the price of the Roast Beef sandwich which was on sale. He then made a post saying he was told NO several times, and then after nagging them and trying to find a way to get a Veggie for cheaper then the menu price, and joked about sticking it to them. Just because a Chevy Malibu has a $2,000 dollar rebate does not mean the Corvette does. The very fact Al says he was sticking it to the man, means he probably realizes he was screwing them. You wanna stick it to someone, stick it to Enron, instead of some poor soul that owns a Subway.

But hey I am not going to stress out about this anymore, honestly I have been torn up about this all day, if you get off on giving someone serving your food hell, and doing everything possible to save a few pennies so be it. You wanna be known as the local asshole that does that stuff so be it.

I wish I could tell you how many times and the stories, where I have had employees come to me crying because of dealing with stuff like this, and having someone raise hell with them over pennies, and then they quit their job because the stress is to much.

And one last thing, AL I have nothing against you, I enjoy your post and your surfing trip log, and I hope people reading this thread will at least consider, Whether you agree with me or not, that this is very annoying and one of the biggest pet peeves in the food industry, that you are ruining people's days by doing this. We would almost rather you come in and just spit in our face then argue with us about our special or what we serve.

(O yea AL, just maybe mention next time if they would mind putting the Veggie on special sometime)
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Old 09-23-2007, 10:51 PM   #32
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Hold the pickle, hold the lettuce, special orders don't upset us....

Sorry wrong fast food chain. My bad.
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Old 09-23-2007, 10:54 PM   #33
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First mistake, shopping at a chain. You want personal service? Patronize your local merchant.

On the menu. Veggie sub 3.69 Special RB sub 2.99
If you want veggie order the F*cking veggie!! You want to save .70 order the damn special and covertly remove the BEEF. Oh hell, make a big deal out of it. Remove it and stick it down yer pants and yell to the old lady in line "Where's the beef?"
You want to manage a Subway? You're on the wrong side of the counter dude! "I eat, therefore I know how to manage!"

Kid gets fired. Goes to unemployment hearing. Testifies that he made 3 veggie subs and rung them up as "specials". It's on tape (look next time your in for the cameras) Denied benefits cause he stole from owner. Franchisee is told he is losing his franchise. Company credits him with $.70 promo dollar for each special but inventory supports that he is selling non specials at special prices and claiming the promo dollars on top of that. Loses $500,000 franchise fee and forced out of business.

BigRitchie, YOU are correct in your assessment of the general public. Could of served it up with a little garnish to make it look a little prettier.

I'd love to see the bitchers here on the other side of the counter for just a week. Hell some of them think they've "been in the trenches" doing a little moderating here!!!

Glad to see you don't let your employees be demeaned by idiots who think their $2.99 allows them the run of the shop.

The ONE time I embarassed a guest, I was running a busy shift and there was a long wait for tables, (I have the record of most seating per shift). A member of a group of 8 was fidgiting during the wait and as I was ready to seat a deuce (two people) he approached me and demanded their table because he'd been there longer. I looked at the couple and apologetically told them that I would give their table to the demanding party and proceeded to take his group of eight to the two top table. So all 9 of us stood there for a bit as I flourished the menus on the table. "Table of Eight" was a running joke for a while.

Maybe we should focus on the tax code or our legal system if we want things to make sense and quit picking on the $5.25 hr. workers.

Haven't done "hospitality" for over 15 years.
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Old 09-23-2007, 11:16 PM   #34
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First mistake, shopping at a chain. You want personal service? Patronize your local merchant.

On the menu. Veggie sub 3.69 Special RB sub 2.99
If you want veggie order the F*cking veggie!! You want to save .70 order the damn special and covertly remove the BEEF. Oh hell, make a big deal out of it. Remove it and stick it down yer pants and yell to the old lady in line "Where's the beef?"
You want to manage a Subway? You're on the wrong side of the counter dude! "I eat, therefore I know how to manage!"

Kid gets fired. Goes to unemployment hearing. Testifies that he made 3 veggie subs and rung them up as "specials". It's on tape (look next time your in for the cameras) Denied benefits cause he stole from owner. Franchisee is told he is losing his franchise. Company credits him with $.70 promo dollar for each special but inventory supports that he is selling non specials at special prices and claiming the promo dollars on top of that. Loses $500,000 franchise fee and forced out of business.

BigRitchie, YOU are correct in your assessment of the general public. Could of served it up with a little garnish to make it look a little prettier.

I'd love to see the bitchers here on the other side of the counter for just a week. Hell some of them think they've "been in the trenches" doing a little moderating here!!!

Glad to see you don't let your employees be demeaned by idiots who think their $2.99 allows them the run of the shop.

The ONE time I embarassed a guest, I was running a busy shift and there was a long wait for tables, (I have the record of most seating per shift). A member of a group of 8 was fidgiting during the wait and as I was ready to seat a deuce (two people) he approached me and demanded their table because he'd been there longer. I looked at the couple and apologetically told them that I would give their table to the demanding party and proceeded to take his group of eight to the two top table. So all 9 of us stood there for a bit as I flourished the menus on the table. "Table of Eight" was a running joke for a while.

Maybe we should focus on the tax code or our legal system if we want things to make sense and quit picking on the $5.25 hr. workers.

Haven't done "hospitality" for over 15 years.
Thank you.

And yes I refuse to let my employees put up with crap from customers, I learned long ago that that customer that eats there once every 6 months, and gives you hell from the moment they walk in to the moment they walk out, is worthless compared to the employee that bust their ass, gives me their all, treats my regulars like gold, and make my life possible.

I also magically discovered that I sell amazing food, and that when I ask a customer to act a certain way, they get mad at me for 1 month do not eat there, and then come back and never give me a problem again, and become great customers. I even chewed a guys ass out one day for bothering one of my employees over something stupid and called him Adolf Hitler (really funny story which I do not have time to tell hehe), and after a month or so the guy came back and to this very day is one of my best customers now.

It is amazing the time that failing food places devote to arguing and giving hand-outs to problem customers, if they spent have that time taking care of their good customers they would have a gold mine.

I will give the shirt off my back to a good customer, but with bad customers it is my way or the highway, and it amuses me that they for some reason feel that if I do not give them their hand-out, that I will go out of business. When in fact people that eat at my place, know that I do not tolerate idiots, and they eat there to get away from the idiots.
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Old 09-24-2007, 12:42 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by Bigritchie View Post
"Which is worse:
1. A manager who sets up a rule system that people take advantage of, or
2. A manager who sets up a rule system that people take advantage of, and then complains about being taken advantage of?"

Which is worse:
1. A girl being pretty and wearing a sexy outfit that criminals take advantage of, or
2. A girl being pretty and wearing a sexy outfit that criminals take advantage of, and then complain about being taken advantage of?

I am more of a believer in teaching people that taking advantage of someone is wrong.
Such a bad analogy I won't even respond.....
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Old 09-24-2007, 12:56 AM   #36
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Honobob and Bigritchie....


You two guys are so jaded it is amazing... if a Subway shop that is DESIGNED to put on what you want as you go down the line can not make a sandwich the way you want then nobody can....

And what did he ask for, a ROAST BEEF, hold the roast beef.... to me that is like when I was in a place that only listed cheeseburger on the menu... I said, hold the cheese... they got it right... and charged me for the cheeseburger... and the guy after me said hold the bacon... and they got HIS right also... He never asked to replace the roast beef with anything else... just do not put it on my roast beef sandwich...

You are in the service industry... and almost all of your rants are of customers that are rude to your employees... I don't see where the OP was rude at all... but you seem to see it...
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Old 09-24-2007, 08:19 AM   #37
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Wow - nothing like a Monday morning chuckle as I patiently wait for my software to load and sip the 2nd cup of coffee this morning! FOUR pages of controversy over 3 little slices of roast beast! Thanks Al! Sorry, but it really is comical!
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Old 09-24-2007, 08:45 AM   #38
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They should send an employee out to the dining room to assure the customers eat the sandwiches without picking anything off. .... Maybe they could staple the sandwiches together as an added deterrent.
AH Ha ha ha ha ha !!

I've never eaten at Subway that I can remember, but maybe with the veggie sub you get more veggies than with the RB sub minus RB? Everytime I start trying to suss out the most cost-effective combination that gets me the closest to what I really want from all the distracting "meal" specials, I just end up giving myself a headache. I just order a la carte (even this alone can sometimes mess with their minds). It's worth paying .70 extra to not have strife and crankiness on either side of the counter.. who needs it?

If .70 were important to me, I'd order the RB and take the meat home for the dog or throw it away if no dining companion wanted it. T Al's principle may be sound but bucking "the rules", even if they are stupid, is not worth it to me in these kind of situations. Consider the .70 a token contribution to Subway so they can keep offering relatively cheap food and/or wait for the veggie sub special.

samclem is right, though.. by "sticking it to the man" you are setting yourself up for possibly unpleasant unknown repercussions. If you like frequenting that Subway franchise I'd say .70 and a smile could yield better future treatment. Get friendly with the folks and over time the rules might "bend".
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Old 09-24-2007, 08:59 AM   #39
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Jesus weeps....

Customer's who would rather make an issue than just pull the meat out and leave it on the plate... vrs... restaurant staff who's policy is "thinking... we don't do no stinking thinking".

LMAO!!! Have you ever considered just how damn fortunate we must be... that this is what we view as an important problem?
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Old 09-24-2007, 09:25 AM   #40
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A while back (still true??) there were airlines that charged less for a trip, say, from Cleveland to Dallas (with a stop in Atlanta) than for a trip from Cleveland to Atlanta. So, of course, some people would buy a ticket to Dallas and get off in Atlanta.
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