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Old 10-04-2013, 02:47 PM   #121
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I have loved reading this thread. I have one question: When a nursing home is spending your assets before Medicaid kicks in, can they touch an annuity?
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Old 10-04-2013, 03:01 PM   #122
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I have one question: When a nursing home is spending your assets before Medicaid kicks in, can they touch an annuity?
If it is an asset that has a cash value, yes, at least in Maryland. FIL does have one in which he won the bet with the insurance company and it has no residual cash value so he continues to receive a small income from that.
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Old 10-05-2013, 10:11 PM   #123
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New to the forums and hoping to ER in a year or so at about 53.

Your postings give me lots to think about and are very much appreciated.
Thanks for sharing all your experiences and your journey!
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Old 10-29-2013, 12:57 PM   #124
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Posting this here, as it's personal, and not either a recommendation or a request for validation... Just a bit more of "FRUGAL".

STUFF WE DON'T SPEND MONEY ON

Life Insurance
New Clothing
Haircuts
Hair styling
Pedicures/manicures
Beauty products
Movies
Concerts
Sporting events
Restaurants (more than $8 meal)
Books
Music
"New" Computers (since 2002)... all refurb or reclaim
Software... (Twice in lifetime.. total $30) all other "free"
Car maintenance labor... all DIY except 3 times for major repairs
Brand vs. Generic foods
Premium meat or fish
Financial Advisor
Lawyer
Chiro/Massage/Tan etc.
Tatoos...
New Home Decor.. (all resale)
Cars.. since 1998...
Car Wash and wax... since 1989
Premium TV channels
New Bikes or Exercise equipment
Sporting goods
Cruises (so far)
Group trips
Flying (Airlines)
Lodging (more than 3 star)
Premium Gasoline
Tools (already have more than I'll ever use, including welders etc.)
Housekeeper
Carpet Cleaning
Window/Gutter/Furnace etc. Cleaning... all DIY
Premium booze/wine...
Jewelry
Organic foods
Brand sodas
Painting, remodeling
Weapons
Subscriptions (AARP only)
Gambling
Banking or Credit Card Fees
Appliance or Electonics insurance
Eye Glasses... except for $1readers (since 2000... maybe eye test this year.)
Pets... (except bird feed)
Healthcare maintenance... exercise equipment, pool, advisor etc... (all included in our senior community membership. (no fees)
Pest control... DIY
Only "fee for" is Activities Association (FL).. $6/year

.... for starters...
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Old 10-29-2013, 01:36 PM   #125
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Oh master, I consider myself frugal, but my list is a small subset of yours.
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Old 11-23-2013, 04:37 PM   #126
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Wow. Just found this thread again (link from another thread) and read thru it all. Thank you Imoldernu for so much great information! You and your bride are certainly an inspiration to most er/esr-wannabees. My wife and I are ESR'd since 2/13 at age 49. We still have younger kids (ages 11 and 9), so it's a little tough to pack up and head to the hills (your campground), but the ESR thingy will allow our assets (mostly rental properties we self-manage) to continue to grow for a number of years while the mortgages are paid down. We certainly look forward to the days when we can travel between homes/locations whenever we want. Again, many thanks for your information and anecdotes. Best of luck to you in holding off Phase II as long as possible!
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Old 11-23-2013, 11:20 PM   #127
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I've read thousands of posts in numerous forums. This thread is one of the best I've read. Thanks OP and others who responded/contributed. I've learned a lot. I will revisit this thread as reference.
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Old 11-25-2013, 08:56 AM   #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imoldernu View Post

To calculate where we stand in our retirement plan, we add
a. Social security amount.
b. Amount of interest earned on income producing assets.
c. ... and add the Total Assets divided by the number of years between now and age 85.

That establishes how much we can spend, which we then adjust to our best/nominal/austerity budget.

Sounds funky, but it works,and it takes about 2 minutes to tell if we're on budget or not.

The second part of this budgeting thing, is that we've been blessed by not having any debt. All of this makes for very simple accounting. One more thing... we don't try to calculate for inflation. In fact, it has not been a problem over the past 20 years. This may have to change.
I've been fascinated with this simple formula. When I calculate it with my numbers I get about a 6.5% withdrawal rate based on:
1. nestegg expected interest return= conservative 3.5% (I'm kind of allowing for a little inflation here)
2. nestegg / remaining life expectancy of 33 years
3. total of 1 +2 /nestegg is 6.5%

am I doing this right? I've only run a couple of subsequent years and it looks like the WDR will remain high % but the dollars obviously get smaller. Here is where I'm hearing the OP say he runs the 'yearly' double check to make adjustments... in other words, the strategy is intended to be flexible, not absolute..

My reason for being interested is that my DW and I have no desire to leave a legacy and I feel most approaches are on the conservative side. This approach is less conservative while still allowing for the unknowns. In any event, thanks imoldernu for these insightful ideas...
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Old 11-25-2013, 11:45 AM   #129
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that my DW and I have no desire to leave a legacy and I feel most approaches are on the conservative side. This approach is less conservative while still allowing for the unknowns. In any event, thanks imoldernu for these insightful ideas...
It seems to me that as people get older this may need revision. This basically seems to assume that either you die at 85 or that after 85 you live only on SS (there wouldn't be any portfolio left to provide any income). The thing is that I think it would be hard to live only on SS for the average person (not impossible, just hard). For someone age 60, projecting to age 85 will probably work for many people since they will die by age 85. But, as you approach 85 the likelihood that you will live past 85 increases. That is, when my mom was 50, it probably didn't seem very likely she would live to 90 (and wasn't all that likely). Now that she is 89 the chances of living to 90 are quite high.

So, it would seem this plan would need to ratchet up the 85 as you get closer to 85.
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Old 11-25-2013, 12:42 PM   #130
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This thread is priceless. Thank you imoldernu.

+1
Probably a best of...
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Old 11-27-2013, 07:39 PM   #131
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Originally Posted by Live And Learn View Post
This thread is priceless. Thank you imoldernu.

+1
Probably a best of...

I second that and very much appreciate the time it took imoldrnu to post it all. I'm still digesting the wisdom contained in his remarks.
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Old 12-18-2013, 01:39 PM   #132
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I liked it!
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Old 03-19-2014, 07:12 PM   #133
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I also think this is the best thread overall here. There are many good ones on many subjects but this one is special.

Please make it a sticky thread Mods.

imoldernu Thank you for all the time you took to keep notes and post this info. It is so useful to so many.
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Old 03-20-2014, 10:30 AM   #134
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A while back, I mentioned the initial onset of Alzheimers. I am putting this post into the "sharing" thread because it represents only my own thinking. It is not meant to be a subject for discussion, but a first person experience. Hopefully, as we go along, I can add to these thoughts, not as a matter of advice, but as a baseline measure.

As I near age 80, (a few years away), the subject is dear to my heart. With genetics working against me, Alzheimers is not just a "fear", but a work in progress. I am keeping a journal, just for myself, to be able to look back as long as I am able, and to measure the progression.
I look at this from a different perspective... not as one who is worried about "getting" AZ, or having to deal with parents, friends or relatives who have it... but from learning how to accept it, and deal with the progression.
First, Alzheimers is not an on/off disease, the way you would turn on a light... but more like a dimmer swtch. The only real question is how fast the slide into the serious and debilitating inevitable helplessness.

I try not to give advice, as everyone is different, but some thoughts on my own situation:

-On testing, or doctor's diagnosis - No! To what gain? Perhaps drugs to delay or extend the onset... but at best, current phamacology offers only a slight delay.

-The second part of this "no diagnosis" is the downside that it presents. Friends and relative "hovering" and watching for every indication of problems. Bad enough that I have short term memory problems, but the most irritating thing about that is the constant "OH... everyone has memory lapses... You don't have a problem ". I am dreadfully afraid I'm going to do something drastic to the next person who says that.

-The next part is the internal struggle, to live a normal life, and to begin developing way to cope with the coming years. It's the short term memory that causes the most problems. I honestly don't think that the deep seated intellect is affected. The interest in learning, if anything, is more intense than ever. Curiosity and problem solving has become more entrenched. Perhaps with less pressure from the day to day memory requirements, I am left with more time to pursue knowledge as goal. A happy side effect.

-Freedom... this may be the biggest part of the "no diagnosis" insistance. Once a medical decision has been reached, it becomes a death knell to freedom. I have yet to meet anyone with any degree of Alzheimers who voluntarily accepts the restrictions that come with that life sentence ... This accounts for the struggle that families have in getting loved ones to be diagnosed.
Just imagine... no car... no going out alone... sideways glances always... So no thanks... I'm fine.

-A side note... about Alzheimers and Intelligence... I'm not sure there's a connection between the problems associated with AZ and intelligence... especially in the early stages. Probably so with regard to the testing... intelligence as measured by verbal and cognitive and physical tasks, but not basic intelligence. In my own case, measurement of 145 WB. I am sure that a written test today would probably be below 100, though I don't believe it measures the thinking power or the deep cerebral connections for reasoning and problem solving. This could change.

-The time line... wow... the biggest question. I'd like to think it will be measured in years... hopefully 5 to 10 years, but am prepared for whatever happens.

As we go along, am thinking to use my journal for reflection and measuring the progress. In any case, in no rush to die.
.................................................. .................................................. .......
Sharing a short story that I heard long ago, that represents my outlook on life.

I am in the hospital, where I was brought after an automobile accident. I am in bed, hooked up to tubes and wires. For some reason, I cannot move. Seems like I've been here for a while. Not so bad, I'll rest up, and wait for the Doctor to release me. I smell flowers... yeah, on the bedstand next to me. Oh, oh... here comes the nurse... Pretty little thing... she acts like I'm not here... Oh well... Actually, not so bad... I can see out the window... birds in the trees... flowers... and I don't hurt at all... Not so bad...
Wait!... here comes the doctor. And my wife and kids. Musta took the day off... didn't need to, I'll be home for dinner. They look awful, like maybe the dog died or something. The doctor's talking to them.... he's sorry... Sorry about what?... I'm fine, look at me... I feel very good... What's that? What test? What does he mean, brain dead?.... And now the family is crying, and leaving... Hey wait... wait... Here comes the doctor back again... What's he doing with that plug... Hey... don't... Hey... wait.. Hey...

Life is Good!
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Old 03-20-2014, 11:32 AM   #135
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Thank you for sharing, imoldernu. You are a model for all of us.

In retrospect, my Dad had a good 5 years with ALZ where he functioned very well with just "irritations" regarding memory loss. He drove very successfully without major incident in this time and retained his freedom, humor and grace. I'm hoping for more for you. The disease is different for everyone. I wish you the best.

Dad is now about 6 years in since he noticed (about 4 years for us family) and now it is difficult as he is pretty much in stage 6 of the disease, as defined on the alz.org site. This is when it gets hard. But even now he has good days which we all cherish.
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Old 03-24-2014, 03:55 PM   #136
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Our plan is extremely simple... On the spending side, we have three different budgets that we can adjust as circumstances warrant. Best case... Nominal... and Austerity.

I now have 4 plans on budget plan:

1. Splurge - work 2 -3 more years at current job before RE, travel the world
2. Maintain - live in same place, keep current life style, can RE now if I don't have OMY syndrome.
3. Conservative - hedge against 2 going bad, move to less expensive area, downsize
4. Austerity - hedge against 3 going bad with lots of unexpected events that significantly reduces my asset.
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Old 05-01-2014, 07:01 PM   #137
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imoldernu, this really is a great thread. Thank you for it.

I went back through the 7 previous pages and didn't see anything about this, so sorry if I missed it. Looking back, what would you do differently other than divide retirement into two phases? I'm asking in the broadest way possible -- not just in terms of money. What didn't you do that you now wish you had? What about that you did but now wish you hadn't?
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Old 08-08-2014, 04:00 PM   #138
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Bumping up as this is a great thread. Thank you for sharing your experiences!
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Old 08-09-2014, 04:12 PM   #139
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I just read this entire thread & it is awesome! I know the rules on medicaid/nursing homes are always changing but I know that at one point if you had a home & one spouse went into nursing home that the other spouse could live there until they died. Then the home would be sold & $ given to pay back Medicaid. If the remaining spouse had to go to a nursing home the home was taken at that time. So in effect the home was a temporary shelter of assets but not permanent.
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Old 08-10-2014, 04:32 PM   #140
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I just read this entire thread & it is awesome! I know the rules on medicaid/nursing homes are always changing but I know that at one point if you had a home & one spouse went into nursing home that the other spouse could live there until they died. Then the home would be sold & $ given to pay back Medicaid. If the remaining spouse had to go to a nursing home the home was taken at that time. So in effect the home was a temporary shelter of assets but not permanent.
We just went through this issue with FIL going into a nursing home. In his case it was irrelevant as his wife passed in 1999, but when all other assets are exhausted Medicaid then files a lien on the house for the amount of what they paid. So the house isn't "taken" exactly, but the lien of course has to be paid when the house is sold.

This is why it is so important to see an elder law attorney before the crisis develops. State laws and circumstances vary so there is no "one size fits all" solution but it is very specialized with lots of legal "gotchas" if you don't know all the subtle nuances of the game.
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