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Old 10-26-2011, 10:49 AM   #81
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Originally Posted by ERD50
I got the impression he just 'wanted it'. I never did figure out why.
Different strokes, maybe?

If I insisted on understanding why everyone wanted stuff I had no interest in, I'd go looney -- as others might in trying to understand why I want stuff they think is silly.
You are misunderstanding me. I don't have any problem with him wanting something that I maybe can't understand. But he posted looking for feedback, and it's hard to give feedback when he really hasn't communicated why he wants it.

Is it economics? Is it environmental concerns? Is it because he just wants new technology? Does he want to appear 'green' to attract the hippie-chicks?

That is separate from whether I would agree with it. You are taking my comments as judgmental, when they are simply seeking information.


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On the face of it, it seems that we haven't made progress, in that the volt only goes 40 miles/charge.

This car went 40 miles/charge:


And this car goes 40 miles on a charge:


But consider that the volt weighs much more, goes faster, has headlights that you don't have to light with a match, is many times safer, can be driven in the winter, can go hundreds of miles using its generator, etc., and you have to admit there's been a lot of progress.
The post was a bit tongue-in-cheek. Likewise, the mpg rating of cars back then isn't all that different from the average car today, for all the reasons you mention. But EVs lost the market back then, for the same reasons they won't gain any great market share today (until/if the economics change, and/or these things actually become a significant environmental plus).

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Old 10-26-2011, 10:55 AM   #82
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From the perspective of GM, it must be or the product will not be successful. The market for expensive items that don't make economic sense is somewhat limited.

With GM it gets complicated by politics, and I will say no more.


Take the Nissan Leaf - do they really need to make a profit, or are they looking at it as a loss-leader, just to get some PR that they are a groovy, high-tech, on the edge company concerned about the environment, and not stuck in the old world of the ICE. We are not your grandfather's car company. Maybe the PR is worth it to them?

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Old 10-26-2011, 11:00 AM   #83
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Until you have an AFFORDABLE electric car that can go 250-300 miles between charges, I'm not interested. Seems all the R&D engineers at the major car companies have gotten going and we now have a whole bunch of 40mpg or higher cars........
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Old 10-26-2011, 11:17 AM   #84
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Until you have an AFFORDABLE electric car that can go 250-300 miles between charges, I'm not interested.
It's not only the cruising range of electrics that is problematic in terms of "mainstreaming" EVs -- it's also the time it takes to "refuel". Until you can recharge nearly as fast as you can refill your gas tank, there's another concern.

Having said that, clearly the folks who have very long commutes and make frequent long "road trips" aren't the target market here.
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Old 10-26-2011, 11:41 AM   #85
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I would wait for a hydrogen fuel cell car. Current electric vehicles run on coal.

Electricity from Coal
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Old 10-26-2011, 11:44 AM   #86
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I would wait for a hydrogen fuel cell car. Current electric vehicles run on coal.

Electricity from Coal
Current hydrogen cars run on fossil fuel.

EIA Energy Kids - Hydrogen

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Steam reforming is currently the least expensive method of producing hydrogen and accounts for about 95% of the hydrogen produced in the United States. This method is used in industries to separate hydrogen atoms from carbon atoms in methane (CH4). But the steam reforming process results in greenhouse gas emissions that are linked with global warming.
Ooops!

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Old 10-26-2011, 12:05 PM   #87
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The forty mile range would cover most of my driving, but the price is too high for my limited budget...
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Old 10-26-2011, 12:18 PM   #88
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Current hydrogen cars run on fossil fuel.

EIA Energy Kids - Hydrogen



Ooops!

-ERD50
Thats correct. Steam Methane Reformers that produce hydrogen are typically fired from boilers that have NG burners and CO and NOx emissions result from the process. Some Reformers use electricity in lieu of NG. No free lunch here given todays technology for producing hydrogen.
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Old 10-26-2011, 01:50 PM   #89
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I'm sticking with my Mr. Fusion powered DeLorean. For long trips anyway. Around town my DWs 2002 VW Beetle TDI get 45-50 mpg, which now that diesel is less than 110% the cost of unleaded means we're winning the price race.
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Old 10-26-2011, 02:11 PM   #90
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I would wait for a hydrogen fuel cell car. Current electric vehicles run on coal.
*Ahem.* They run on photovoltaic solar power too... we already have two neighbors on our street who recharge their Nissan Leafs ("Leaves"?) from their arrays.
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Old 10-26-2011, 04:39 PM   #91
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If the Volt isn't good enough, there's always the Fisker Karma, recently purchased by Leonardo DiCaprio that gets 100 mpg: $100,000 DiCaprio car: Leonardo DiCaprio buys Fisker Karma hybrid - CSMonitor.com

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The elegant-looking machine is manufactured in Finland by Fisker Automotive of Anaheim, Calif. For a mere $95,900, you can get the base model. The Karma has a solar paneled roof that both recharges the car’s Lithium-Ion battery and runs the climate control system.

How about the gas mileage? Fisker claims the Karma gets 100 miles to the gallon – and if you only drive 50 miles a day, they say you would need to fill the tank just once per year.
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Old 10-26-2011, 05:44 PM   #92
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If the Volt isn't good enough, there's always the Fisker Karma, recently purchased by Leonardo DiCaprio that gets 100 mpg: $100,000 DiCaprio car: Leonardo DiCaprio buys Fisker Karma hybrid - CSMonitor.com

Hmmmm, $1000 per MPG +gas. At that price who cares about the price of fuel. He shuld have gotten the Bentley.

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Old 11-05-2011, 11:54 AM   #93
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As for demand, I know mine was on the lot about 16 hours until I drove off in it
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I checked a few dealers around this area. A few had 1 or 2 in stock, two of 'em had 4 in stock. I'm curious, so I'll watch see how fast those stock #'s move.
So over ~10 days, I've tracked 13 Volts across 4 dealers in IL (3 nearby, Peoria also came up in my search, so I grabbed it for "Will it play in Peoria" effect)


Only one is gone from the list, and one has been added to the inventory. I just tracked stock numbers, not VIN, so I suppose it is possible that that one simply moved from one dealer to another, but not likely.

No sales in Peoria.

That doesn't seem to indicate any fast sales to me. I wonder if they will need to drop the price once any initial rush of EV enthusiast demand is filled? Then quietly drop it and try again if/when batteries become more cost effective than other options? We already know they aren't an environmental panacea, so what's the point?

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Old 11-05-2011, 12:29 PM   #94
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\
That doesn't seem to indicate any fast sales to me. I wonder if they will need to drop the price once any initial rush of EV enthusiast demand is filled? Then quietly drop it and try again if/when batteries become more cost effective than other options? We already know they aren't an environmental panacea, so what's the point?

-ERD50

Remember that the manufacturer of the vehicles could care less about the car once it's in the dealers hands. They have been paid in full at that point so they will not drop the price. It is possible that a rebate could come up though. Once the vehicle sits on the dealers lot and they figure out that no one wants it they will take all the profit out of the deal and sell it ASAP because of floor plan costs.
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Old 11-05-2011, 01:04 PM   #95
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Remember that the manufacturer of the vehicles could care less about the car once it's in the dealers hands. They have been paid in full at that point so they will not drop the price. It is possible that a rebate could come up though. Once the vehicle sits on the dealers lot and they figure out that no one wants it they will take all the profit out of the deal and sell it ASAP because of floor plan costs.
Exactly (I spent three decades on the manufacturing side )...
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Old 11-05-2011, 08:36 PM   #96
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Remember that the manufacturer of the vehicles could care less about the car once it's in the dealers hands. They have been paid in full at that point so they will not drop the price. ...
Remember that the customer couldn't care less (see the grammar thread for more) who paid what. All they care about is their out-of-pocket cost and the long term cost of ownership (or at least that is what they should care about, financially). If the dealer wants to move the car, they may need to drop the price.

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Old 11-05-2011, 09:34 PM   #97
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Remember that the customer couldn't care less (see the grammar thread for more) who paid what. All they care about is their out-of-pocket cost and the long term cost of ownership (or at least that is what they should care about, financially). If the dealer wants to move the car, they may need to drop the price.

-ERD50
You don't have to tell me that the customer could care less, I know all about that.

I was commenting to your post about lowering the price. No doubt the dealer will lower the price as the car sits but don't expect any help from the manufacturer. From what I've read the Volt is not selling so prices should come down at the dealer level.
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Old 12-03-2011, 04:32 PM   #98
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Read an article a day or so ago, GM is buying back the Chevy volt. Seems they have some self immolating feature. Prior to that they were offering a gasoline powered car as loaner while attempting to fix the source of fire some testing discovered.

My guess: the the Volt is now toast.
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Old 12-03-2011, 04:38 PM   #99
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Read an article a day or so ago, GM is buying back the Chevy volt.
As I understand it they are offering to buy back the Volt from anyone who purchased it and wishes to sell due to concerns about recent reports of battery fires after the cars were involved in accidents.

Not sure I'd qualify the Volt as toast just yet, more like warm buns....
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Old 12-03-2011, 04:40 PM   #100
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I heard they were giving out loaners till the problem is resolved. If GM is now buying them back, well, say goodbye!
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