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Old 12-04-2011, 01:51 PM   #121
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And, IIRC, DC "juice" is a bit more incapacitating than the same voltage of AC. Something about cycling and the response of human neurons/musculature. None of it is fun.
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Old 12-04-2011, 06:04 PM   #122
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And, IIRC, DC "juice" is a bit more incapacitating than the same voltage of AC. Something about cycling and the response of human neurons/musculature. None of it is fun.
There is a fuzzy video of the elephant getting zapped. Not pretty

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Edison's publicity campaign

Edison carried out a campaign to discourage the use[16] of alternating current, including spreading disinformation on fatal AC accidents, publicly killing animals, and lobbying against the use of AC in state legislatures. Edison directed his technicians, primarily Arthur Kennelly and Harold P. Brown,[17] to preside over several AC-driven killings of animals, primarily stray cats and dogs but also unwanted cattle and horses.[improper synthesis?] Acting on these directives, they were to demonstrate to the press that alternating current was more dangerous than Edison's system of direct current.[18] He also tried to popularize the term for being electrocuted as being "Westinghoused". Years after DC had lost the "war of the currents," in 1902, his film crew made a movie of the electrocution with high voltage AC, supervised by Edison employees, of Topsy, a Coney Island circus elephant which had recently killed three men.[19]
Edison opposed capital punishment, but his desire to disparage the system of alternating current led to the invention of the electric chair. Harold P. Brown, who was being secretly paid by Edison, built the first electric chair for the state of New York to promote the idea that alternating current was deadlier than DC.[20]
War of Currents - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 12-04-2011, 07:57 PM   #123
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I think this is a strange bit of PR on GM's part.
Yes, this strikes me as weird.

I think there's a new technique with politicians and corporations. It goes like this: Even if you think the perceived problem doesn't exist, say you're very sorry right away and offer amends (or go to rehab) so that the public doesn't think you are trying to avoid the issue.

It's as if someone at GM wanted to avoid the publicity that came with the accelerating Priuses (which, BTW, you don't hear about anymore).

But if so, buying the cars back seems to go too far.
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Old 12-05-2011, 07:15 AM   #124
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Based on this reference, http://www.towserver.net/PDF/VoltQuickRef3.pdf, the Volt battery package voltage is 360V. For Gen V Toyota Prius, its battery pack voltage is 201V; and for Honda Civic hybrid, its figure is 144V.

Even the regular 12V battery presents a hazard for EMS after all the metals and wires got tangled together caused by crash, because a lot of energy could still be released by short circuit. That's why EMS personnels always cut a portion of battery cable off at first if they can as precaution. IMO, 360V battery may pack enough punch for motor acceleration, but its voltage is way too high.

Another thought on the basic Ohms law: I^2 * R. Regardless what claims made by manufactures, the electrical power must be coming from somewhere. For the pure electrical plug-in type car, not sure how long its glory will hold, especially considering everyone is going to drive one and charge the batteries from the regular household power outlets at the same time.
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Old 12-06-2011, 12:08 AM   #125
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........ IMO, 360V battery may pack enough punch for motor acceleration, but its voltage is way too high.......
di/dt. The only way to overcome inductance is higher voltage. Used all over for electromechanical systems. The old line printers, remember them? They packed a punch to fire the print solenoids. In my consultant days, among other things, designed stuff using PWM running a 3.6v stepper motor on 50v, for example.

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That's why EMS personnels always cut a portion of battery cable off at first if they can as precaution.
Our FD has sent everyone through a hybrid/electric vehicle training course. They say dealing with smashed hybrids has been no big deal for them. What IS the big deal for them, is the multiplicity of airbags all over cars and trucks lately. In seats, in door panels, in headliners, besides the usual dashboard and steering wheel. They told me that airbags were their #1 safety concern on extractions.

Cutting the battery cable will, after a moment, usually disable the airbags from firing. Unless one gets powered via some other method. Hoods can be hard to open when they are well-crunched, and even a smashed battery with all its acid running out can still power airbags.
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Old 12-06-2011, 12:57 PM   #126
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I'm sure that fires in EVs are really a non-issue. It's like people worrying about terrorism when tobacco kills 4,000 Americans every day.

Think about it...

First, the chances you will be in a serious accident are pretty low. Next, the chances that that accident will happen in just the right way to cause a fire due to the batteries is low (I made this part up, but it's true), and finally, the chance that you or someone will not be able to get away from that fire are even lower.

Non-issue promoted by lawyers or the press.
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Old 12-06-2011, 01:41 PM   #127
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I'm sure that fires in EVs are really a non-issue. It's like people worrying about terrorism when tobacco kills 4,000 Americans every day.

Think about it...

First, the chances you will be in a serious accident are pretty low. Next, the chances that that accident will happen in just the right way to cause a fire due to the batteries is low (I made this part up, but it's true), and finally, the chance that you or someone will not be able to get away from that fire are even lower.

Non-issue promoted by lawyers or the press.

As one lawyer pointed out to me.... (admit this is a bit old... but still)....

The chance of you being in Vietnam was low.... but if you were there, it was 100%....


But I agree, there are many more things to worry about than this...
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Old 12-06-2011, 02:31 PM   #128
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I'm sure that fires in EVs are really a non-issue. It's like people worrying about terrorism when tobacco kills 4,000 Americans every day.

Think about it...

First, the chances you will be in a serious accident are pretty low. Next, the chances that that accident will happen in just the right way to cause a fire due to the batteries is low (I made this part up, but it's true), and finally, the chance that you or someone will not be able to get away from that fire are even lower.

Non-issue promoted by lawyers or the press.
Much too commonsense...
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Inventory? Sales?
Old 12-16-2011, 09:47 AM   #129
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Inventory? Sales?

Well, of the ~ 10 Volts I have been tracking across 4 dealers, no more have moved since my last update, and three have been added to inventory.

Hard to say how representative that is, I have no idea what the average time on the lot is for vehicles, but it doesn't look like these things are selling like hot-cakes.

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Old 12-17-2011, 09:35 AM   #130
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Seems Audi's North America President has a rather low opinion of the Chevy Volt. Though some might find his logic a tad flawed.


Audi North America President Says Chevy Volt is a ‘Car For Idiots’
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Old 12-17-2011, 09:44 AM   #131
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Hello All---I can afford the 2012 Chevy Volt (electric car); will pay cash for it.
Just remember when say FIRE in this forum it stands for "Financially Independent Retired Early".

Its NOT a recommended car feature.

HAR HAR HAR. I'm such a funny guy.
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Old 12-17-2011, 09:47 AM   #132
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Seems Audi's North America President has a rather low opinion of the Chevy Volt. Though some might find his logic a tad flawed.


Audi North America President Says Chevy Volt is a ‘Car For Idiots’
Ironic. No surprise that he criticizes a competitor who has a product he doesn't have. But his basis is largely critical of the premium customers are paying for the (Volt) technology. Like Audi's are cheap, a good value or cost effective transportation (DW had one for 6 years). Audi is in the conspicuous consumption game themselves to some extent.

I'm not a Volt fan, but you can't deny the Volt has it's own niche, combining largely existing technology in a different way than other carmakers. What has Audi done lately that was as unique, LED's around the headlights?
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Old 12-17-2011, 10:48 AM   #133
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Seems Audi's North America President has a rather low opinion of the Chevy Volt. Though some might find his logic a tad flawed.


Audi North America President Says Chevy Volt is a ‘Car For Idiots’
I think his logic is fine, though his PR person must have had the day off.

No way does one's being an intellectual mean he is not an idiot. Plenty of data points supporting that have sojourned here from time to time.
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Old 12-17-2011, 01:53 PM   #134
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What has Audi done lately that was as unique, LED's around the headlights?
Some of my buds in the train club haul the R10 tdi & R18 to PR events for Audi North America.

The car was unveiled 13 December 2005 and went on to win both its maiden race at the 2006 12 Hours of Sebring in March, and the June 2006 24 Hours of Le Mans.
It was the first diesel powered car to win either of those events. This is the most ambitious and the most expensive project ever undertaken by Audi Sport; the Audi R10 TDI project cost Audi $15 million a year.
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Old 12-17-2011, 02:23 PM   #135
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For the more performance oriented electric car buyers, there is alway this:
Tesla Model S California factory hosts electric car fans - CSMonitor.com
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Old 12-17-2011, 02:32 PM   #136
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Hmmm, I see that this thread is three months old. I was going to add my invaluable opinion here, but I imagine the OP has made up his mind by now.
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Old 12-17-2011, 02:58 PM   #137
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Well, being a mellow geezer that I am, I'd rather be surrounded on the streets with more of these EVs than muscle or sport cars, although I am not going to buy either type.

Why? Just because...

I had stayed away from this thread until now, but just had to pitch in. So, this is my first and also last post on this matter.
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Old 12-17-2011, 03:19 PM   #138
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For the more performance oriented electric car buyers, there is alway this:
Tesla Model S California factory hosts electric car fans - CSMonitor.com

One of the best things about having a Muscle Car is listening to the exhaust. What the heck does a car guy do with one of these things? Sneak up on people!
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Old 12-17-2011, 03:43 PM   #139
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Naw, you can get a recording of a good muscle car engine and put it on the EV.
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Old 12-17-2011, 03:46 PM   #140
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Naw, you can get a recording of a good muscle car engine and put it on the EV.
Or clip some playing cards to your wheel spokes...or buy one of these:

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