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Should She Have Been Disciplined??
Old 01-16-2007, 12:08 PM   #1
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Should She Have Been Disciplined??

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16585140/

Maybe Nords or Jarhead can comment............
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Re: Should She Have Been Disciplined??
Old 01-16-2007, 12:22 PM   #2
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Re: Should She Have Been Disciplined??

What hypocrisy! They have "Don't ask, don't tell" in place and then hammer this woman for taking a few photos? :
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Re: Should She Have Been Disciplined??
Old 01-16-2007, 12:29 PM   #3
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Re: Should She Have Been Disciplined??

The military should have other priorities of greater magnitude on their plates, IMHO.
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Re: Should She Have Been Disciplined??
Old 01-16-2007, 12:30 PM   #4
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Re: Should She Have Been Disciplined??

Quote:
Originally Posted by FinanceDude
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16585140/

Maybe Nords or Jarhead can comment............
Nords already has: http://early-retirement.org/forums/i...0699#msg210699

BTW, she's a local celebrity. She appeared on a live morning show TV broadcast and was besieged for an autograph by every guy working at the station. From the looks of her, she has real talent...


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Re: Should She Have Been Disciplined??
Old 01-16-2007, 12:34 PM   #5
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Re: Should She Have Been Disciplined??

As much as I love to view the unclothed female form, I think that she has violated the Air Force's ethics. As an NCO, a leader, how could any future subordinate/trainee not view her as a joke? She clearly knew that she would be giving up her USAF career to show us her stuff.

If they do not dismiss her from the USAF, a slippery slope will surely be developed for all manner of unprofessional activity.
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Re: Should She Have Been Disciplined??
Old 01-16-2007, 01:06 PM   #6
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Re: Should She Have Been Disciplined??


Why should those willing to lay their lives on the line for our freedoms not
fully enjoy them ?



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Re: Should She Have Been Disciplined??
Old 01-16-2007, 01:16 PM   #7
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Re: Should She Have Been Disciplined??

As a woman and a former Navy enlistee, I find this behavior unprofessional in the extreme. I didn't participate in the womens' movement and struggle for job parity so that this woman could undermine the authority of all military women.

Sorry, but I'm with the Airforce on this one.

BTW, I'd believe that no matter what her job was -- I work in middle management in private industry now, and this would be a career-limiting move here also.
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Re: Should She Have Been Disciplined??
Old 01-16-2007, 01:26 PM   #8
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Re: Should She Have Been Disciplined??

I'm with Caroline on this one.
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Re: Should She Have Been Disciplined??
Old 01-16-2007, 01:36 PM   #9
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Re: Should She Have Been Disciplined??

Posing in the uniform (or just parts of it) is the problem. That makes it a service issue rather than simply a personal one, as she is presuming to represent her employer. It isn't a patriotic or freedom of expression thing at all. It is nothing more using her employer's name to sell herself. If she wasn't an AF SGT in the pictorial, she'd be a "nobody".

It wouldn't be any different if she worked for a civilian business and flashed the logo in her pictorials. Do you think IBM or Starbucks or feel any different than the Air Force.

"She clearly knew that she would be giving up her USAF career to show us her stuff." Or she is so stupid that she doesn't belong there anyway.




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Re: Should She Have Been Disciplined??
Old 01-16-2007, 01:39 PM   #10
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Re: Should She Have Been Disciplined??

I agree with Caroline and Joss, totally unprofessional and should be disciplined no matter who her employer is.
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Re: Should She Have Been Disciplined??
Old 01-16-2007, 01:56 PM   #11
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Re: Should She Have Been Disciplined??

Quote:
Should She Have Been Disciplined??
Yes. You should spank her.
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Re: Should She Have Been Disciplined??
Old 01-16-2007, 02:09 PM   #12
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Re: Should She Have Been Disciplined??

Quote:
Originally Posted by sgeeeee
Yes. You should spank her.
Love to.....got an address??
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Re: Should She Have Been Disciplined??
Old 01-16-2007, 02:33 PM   #13
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Re: Should She Have Been Disciplined??

When I was on active duty, or 20 years ago, I would've been harrumphing in dismay with the other leadership.

Now I think it's pretty funny and a good bit hypocritical.

How many of us who've been in the military for over a decade have been able to maintain that type of physique? Men & women pose in the armed forces bodybuilding championships wearing a lot less square footage than she's wearing in some of her photos, only covering some things that she hasn't covered. She's not showing much more than you can see on just about any European beach (and a lot of American ones). I've seen displays of public nudity on submarines that would sear your eyeballs but when it's in a magazine then we all get our knickers in a knot.

She's managed to advance in a career for 13 years and she had to be doing something right to get training duty. It's pretty reasonable to assume that she's risen through the ranks by demonstrating skills, professionalism, and leadership. Navy recruit training instructors are considered to be among the top 10% performers, on a fast track to NCO, and presumably it's the same in the AF.

Of course none of us underlings have ever seen our leadership behave in manners that could be perceived as embarrassing to the reputation of the service, and I include myself among that leadership. At least she took the uniform off instead of disgracing it! As for her effect on impressionable youngsters, I think that today's generation is much less scandalized and perhaps even more apathetic about nudity than we old farts. Watch a few MTV reality shows.

Ironically the uniform standards require covering up any visible tattoos. And neither she nor any other military would be allowed to display the photos in her workplace... yet I bet she's done more to piss off the Taliban and other Islamic fundamentalists than an entire company of special forces shooters.

No court-martial or even NJP. Who'd want to waste their time writing up the investigation? What CO would want to examine this type of evidence or subject their command to the media scrutiny? She won't work with the recruits again and she'll be stuck in the curriculum-development or admin office processing paperwork for a few months while she goes to auditions after hours. She'll probably have even more free time now to finish her college degree (MFA?) on her tuition assistance or GI Bill. I think it's safe to say that she'll be allowed to separate whenever her career takes off she's ready.

Force shaping indeed...
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Re: Should She Have Been Disciplined??
Old 01-16-2007, 02:35 PM   #14
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Re: Should She Have Been Disciplined??

The short of it is her conduct was prejudicial to good order and discipline and there should be some form of punishment. She cannot maintain control of her Airmen if they view her as a "plaything." With that stated I've known several Airmen who were strippers prior to entering the Air Force and continued to dance while on active duty. They were made to stop, once their chain of command found out about their off duty job.

On a personal note she can't be all that high speed if she's still a Staff Sgt after 13 years. Talk about gaining rank slowly.
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Re: Should She Have Been Disciplined??
Old 01-16-2007, 03:26 PM   #15
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Re: Should She Have Been Disciplined??

Quote:
Originally Posted by RustyShackleford
Why should those willing to lay their lives on the line for our freedoms not
fully enjoy them ?
For the same reason that those of us who lay it on the line every day in law enforcement are not free to "fully enjoy" the freedoms you so enjoy. In many cases doing so would damage the public's confidence in the professionalism, integrity, and capabilities of the agency. You get a DUI and you get a fine and some points. I get a DUI and I lose my career.

This woman; an NCO and a drill instructor who knew she was shaping future servicemen and their views of duty, honor, and integrity; deliberately ignored the good of the service and did damage to the public's perception of the USAF. She should be disciplined and released from service.
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Re: Should She Have Been Disciplined??
Old 01-16-2007, 05:49 PM   #16
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Re: Should She Have Been Disciplined??

Quote:
Do you think IBM or Starbucks or feel any different than the Air Force.
I work for one of the organizations cited above and just spewed my afternoon coffee across my keyboard at the idea of a nekkid employee and our logo in the same centerfold.

Like I said, a PROFOUNDLY career-limiting move.

BTW, and just for the record, that would hold for the men, too. It's not about sex, it's about judgement and professionalism.

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Re: Should She Have Been Disciplined??
Old 01-16-2007, 06:20 PM   #17
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Re: Should She Have Been Disciplined??

Quote:
Originally Posted by lets-retire
The short of it is her conduct was prejudicial to good order and discipline and there should be some form of punishment. She cannot maintain control of her Airmen if they view her as a "plaything." With that stated I've known several Airmen who were strippers prior to entering the Air Force and continued to dance while on active duty. They were made to stop, once their chain of command found out about their off duty job.

On a personal note she can't be all that high speed if she's still a Staff Sgt after 13 years. Talk about gaining rank slowly.
Well...I did have a comment all ready to lay down, then lets-retire pretty much stole my thunder :. My thoughts exactly. Looking at this from the perspective of an Air Force Senior NCO (Reserves now, prior active duty) the Air Force is taking exactly the right action. Do I enjoy seeing a fit, unclothed young lady? YES!!! Do I want my fellow NCO's doing this in public, NO. Terrible example for subordinates, and she would never regain the degree of respect required in a military environment. She knew 100% what the outcome of her actions would be. Now, where do I get that mag issue?!?!
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Re: Should She Have Been Disciplined??
Old 01-16-2007, 06:22 PM   #18
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Re: Should She Have Been Disciplined??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Caroline
. . . Like I said, a PROFOUNDLY career-limiting move.

BTW, and just for the record, that would hold for the men, too. It's not about sex, it's about judgement and professionalism.

But now that I'm retired would there be any drawback to me making a few extra bucks for posing nude? How do you think one gets a retirement gig like that?
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Re: Should She Have Been Disciplined??
Old 01-16-2007, 06:25 PM   #19
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Re: Should She Have Been Disciplined??

I have to study the evidence before I decide what I think.
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Re: Should She Have Been Disciplined??
Old 01-16-2007, 07:12 PM   #20
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Re: Should She Have Been Disciplined??

Should She Have Been Disciplined??

Do we have any volunteers to perform the dicipline role ??

Don't be shy now. It's a job that someone has to do
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