Shutdown-Follow up

Employee retention is an issue where I work (part-time, and not for much longer). People with high-quality skills have to accept lower pay, a much higher retirement deduction than just a few years ago, and yet another pay freeze (pay was frozen 3 years in a row before I finally retired). Job security was always the anchor - and now that's becoming a sad joke. The big question is, why do people stay.
 
Another looming hardship for those working without pay: at the beginning of the month they were going to start paying the full premiums for dental and vision. It’s not that much, but if they didn’t, they would be dropped from the plan for the rest of the year.

Along with beginning of the month rent or mortgage, and no end in sight, it was getting scary. Air traffic controllers and TSA workers driving for Uber or waiting tables after their shift, more calling in sick because they were too tired to do unpaid work, after doing paid second jobs, and it is flu season so more people ARE sick.

The government stopped paying for some section 8 housing contracts in December. Elderly low income folks were starting to get eviction notices because their landlords were providing housing without pay, which they cannot afford to do.

Let’s hope we’re not here again 3 weeks from now.
 
donheff said:
In the shutdown case the budget has not yet been approved thus the need for action. It could be avoided by an automatic continuing resolution in the event of budget impasse.

Your description does apply to the insane debt ceiling which comes up soon. Congress andalrove the budget and allocate the funds but when the debt ceiling is hit spending stops until Congress raises the ceiling.
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Thanks, yes, it was the debt ceiling I was thinking of. But it is all crazy! Gotta :LOL: to keep from :(.


-ERD50
 
njhowie said:
It's bad for the worker if they do not have the savings to cover their living expenses during the period where they aren't receiving a paycheck. Some folks will miss the mortgage or rent payment, others the car payment. Certainly you've seen the stories of government workers at food pantries and soup kitchens. Isn't having to resort to that bad for the worker?

https://www.kare11.com/article/news...check/89-69e2a73f-c177-453d-9e97-c73a7cafc014
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With the rare exception of a rookie working their first job, they should all have over a month of living expenses saved. Even entry level Government jobs pay more than enough to save such a small amount of money. If they didn't then that's on them. I had over 6 months emergency fund in less than a year after starting my first full time job and I was only making around $10/hr. That was in 2001. That's just over $20K/yr and inflation has been low so it's not more than $30K now I would assume. Nearly all Governement jobs pay more than that.
 
aaronc879 said:
With the rare exception of a rookie working their first job, they should all have over a month of living expenses saved. Even entry level Government jobs pay more than enough to save such a small amount of money. If they didn't then that's on them. I had over 6 months emergency fund in less than a year after starting my first full time job and I was only making around $10/hr. That was in 2001. That's just over $20K/yr and inflation has been low so it's not more than $30K now I would assume. Nearly all Governement jobs pay more than that.
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Thanks for your personal opinion.
 
aaronc879 said:
With the rare exception of a rookie working their first job, they should all have over a month of living expenses saved. Even entry level Government jobs pay more than enough to save such a small amount of money. If they didn't then that's on them. I had over 6 months emergency fund in less than a year after starting my first full time job and I was only making around $10/hr. That was in 2001. That's just over $20K/yr and inflation has been low so it's not more than $30K now I would assume. Nearly all Governement jobs pay more than that.
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I was a federali so I will chime in.

I worked at several different agencies and was shocked at eaxh one as I got to know the core GS12to 13 folks. These folks either come in with decent quals or have worked tgeur way up sometimes from gs4-6 level. But at GS13 they are making good money. 75.5k a year right now at step 1. I consider that good money esp since ALOT of these folks are also time or medically retired from the military in my offices as they were DOD. So they are on 50 plus percent of their active duty base pay, heavily subsidized healthcare premiums, commissary privileges etc. Plus their GS 13 pay.

They dress nicely, keep a good new iphone, shiny new luxury car in the sometimes designated parking spot. But you find out they bought a mini mansion 45 mins to an hr outside of the city. Their spouse never worked in 40 years bc they had a child at some point. Now that child lives with them with 2 kids. And on and on. And They prob couldnt come up with a thousand dollars to save their life without a HELOC or tapping their TSP (401k) Not that I am condemning any of these behaviors, but this is the typical picture I would see. Grown folk. Managing huge projects and big budgets, managing staff. Degrees. Living hand to mouth.

I feel very bad for the new graduates, recent hires, etc.. But I struggle to summon up thoughts of sympathy for the folks described above. Someine on here mentioned that maybe tge only good thing ti come out of this shutdown is a wake-up call for some foljs to get their finances shored up. Maybe it was just long enough time without pay to scare them straight.
 
Growing up, many people who knew my family thought we were upper middle class. We had a beautiful house, went to private Catholic schools, parents owned 3 restaurants. We took nice vacations, wore nice clothes.
Until we were inches from bankruptcy. Horrible mismanagement from my DF who, as a WWII vet thought loans were good. Our life was leveraged to the hilt. He loved to spend, party and live the high life. Do I blame him? Maybe. He lived through the depression and the war. He struggled growing up and gradually became successful. Somehow, he thought success was spending.

I learned from him, never to be like him. We came so close to losing everything. The angels were on our side. We made it through.

Two doors down from us (this was when I was in grade school) lived a MD and his family. Also, lovely home and all the rest. We saw one day his house was for sale. He lost it gambling. He bet his house. I overheard my parents talking.

No one is above criticism. No one knows what goes on behind closed doors. It's easy to be judgemental until it happens to you.
 
Rianne said:
Growing up, many people who knew my family thought we were upper middle class. We had a beautiful house, went to private Catholic schools, parents owned 3 restaurants. We took nice vacations, wore nice clothes.
Until we were inches from bankruptcy. Horrible mismanagement from my DF who, as a WWII vet thought loans were good. Our life was leveraged to the hilt. He loved to spend, party and live the high life.

I learned from him, never to be like him. We came so close to losing everything. The angels were on our side. We made it through.

Two doors down from us (this was when I was in grade school) lived a MD and his family. Also, lovely home and all the rest. We saw one day his house was for sale. He lost it gambling. He bet his house. I overheard my parents talking.
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Warren Buffet is right on when he (or Charlie Munger) said: "“There’s only three ways that a smart person can go broke…‘liquor, ladies, and leverage.” I guess gambling falls into the leverage part.

Have a neighbor who blew through over $1MM and two fully paid houses just on Keno tickets. She still lives in one but had to sell both houses and now pays rent in the house she grew up in and inherited...that's gotta hurt.

An interesting read is "Palm Beach Babylon". Covers a lot of super rich (and mostly inherited) money and how so many of them died penniless due to the "3 L's"; leverage being the prime culprit.
 
In Las Vegas, gambling was reported to be a huge problem with the residents ( Duhh..) There was a federal employee who didn't have to report to work and headed to Sin City. Las Vegas can make you or break you.
 
It's quite clear that the cost of shutting down and starting up government exceeds the benefits to the goals that the shutdown seeks to further. It's posturing that robs me of a functioning government - that I paid for with my taxes - for matters large and small. The quiet background research work that no private company would pay for. The ongoing monitoring of - of lots of things - water tables, volcanoes, superfund sites, infrastructure safety, and more, and more. Because it's not in plain view, we can pretend that "oh, it doesn't matter. I don't feel a thing from a shutdown." But it DOES matter, and now we see the timetable. About one month before small disasters start breaking out, then larger.

Let's ask our legislators to take this tactic off the table; or, failing that, that they put themselves and their staff on the front lines. No government shutdowns without Congress and the White House - and their staffs - losing paychecks immediately. (Many congressfolk are wealthy and wouldn't feel it - but their staff would not be quite so immune.)
 
As I understand it, the tactic is on the table because of our laws governing authorization and appropriation of govt funding. Either both houses of Congress and the president agree on funding, or funding will lapse.

Like the Constitution itself, funding law no doubt assumes a "reasonable person" standard whereby both houses of congress, and the Executive, care more about the nation's welfare than about a particular bit of funding. (I will go no farther with this sort of talk).

I should think Congress can amend the laws so the results of disagreement are not so draconian as we have just seen. At the very least, there should be committees studying what it would take, and what would be the ramifications.

Pellice said:
It's quite clear that the cost of shutting down and starting up government exceeds the benefits to the goals that the shutdown seeks to further.....
Let's ask our legislators to take this tactic off the table
Click to expand...
 
Pellice said:
It's quite clear that the cost of shutting down and starting up government exceeds the benefits to the goals that the shutdown seeks to further. It's posturing that robs me of a functioning government - that I paid for with my taxes - for matters large and small. The quiet background research work that no private company would pay for. The ongoing monitoring of - of lots of things - water tables, volcanoes, superfund sites, infrastructure safety, and more, and more. Because it's not in plain view, we can pretend that "oh, it doesn't matter. I don't feel a thing from a shutdown." But it DOES matter, and now we see the timetable. About one month before small disasters start breaking out, then larger.

Let's ask our legislators to take this tactic off the table; or, failing that, that they put themselves and their staff on the front lines. No government shutdowns without Congress and the White House - and their staffs - losing paychecks immediately. (Many congressfolk are wealthy and wouldn't feel it - but their staff would not be quite so immune.)
Click to expand...

Congressional staff members and White House staff do not get paid during a shutdown.
 
Last edited:
My work world never included a furlough. My federal agency was open and all employees were working throughout any shutdown. There were times when a little time off would have been nice. My agency generated its own revenue so did not need to furlough any employees.
 
Glad the federal workers can get back to work. Robert Rubin today on CNN said that 78% of Americans live paycheck to paycheck. Scary thought.
 
.

There were many news articles about furloughed government workers who could not pay their bills after missing a paycheck or two. That speaks volumes about our spend, spend, spend "consumer-driven economy."

.
 
Such a difference from the 2013 shutdown- I had friends posting pics on FB about eating their furlough breakfast by the beach - doing a trip - the theme was “thanks for the paid vacation”
None of that this time - no one dared post anything funny or positive.
 
Helena said:
.

There were many news articles about furloughed government workers who could not pay their bills after missing a paycheck or two. That speaks volumes about our spend, spend, spend "consumer-driven economy."

.
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There is an interesting article about Debt Slaves, 7 out of 10 Americans think that being in debt is a necessity in their lives. 7 out of 10 Americans believe being in debt is normal.
 
Nick12 said:
7 out of 10 Americans believe being in debt is normal.
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C'mon, it is normal if you ever want to buy a house for most Americans. Yes, there are life-long renters and people who pay cash, but it is very normal to get a home mortgage and many people are employed providing such a service.
 
LOL! said:
C'mon, it is normal if you ever want to buy a house for most Americans. Yes, there are life-long renters and people who pay cash, but it is very normal to get a home mortgage and many people are employed providing such a service.
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Yes there are people will be in debt when buying a home but the debt mentality flows into credit cards that people lose control of and just make minimum payments, living a lifestyle they cannot afford but do anyway, etc etc. Looking big picture in this slaves to debt issue.
 
Nick12 said:
There is an interesting article about Debt Slaves, 7 out of 10 Americans think that being in debt is a necessity in their lives. 7 out of 10 Americans believe being in debt is normal.
Click to expand...


Notice how upset people were about the Fed raising interest rates. Even after the Fed raised rates several times the past year, interest rates are still not at historic norms. Yet many acted as if it was the end of the world.

.
 
Nick12 said:
There is an interesting article about Debt Slaves, 7 out of 10 Americans think that being in debt is a necessity in their lives. 7 out of 10 Americans believe being in debt is normal.
Click to expand...

When I was a kid I remember people saying "Yes, but it's a good thing to always have a loan; you should always have a loan out there", like it was a good financial plan or something. I think the idea was that it built up good credit...so you could get another loan.

Or something equally idiotic.
 
LastOfTheBoomers said:
Such a difference from the 2013 shutdown- I had friends posting pics on FB about eating their furlough breakfast by the beach - doing a trip - the theme was “thanks for the paid vacation”
None of that this time - no one dared post anything funny or positive.
Click to expand...

But I did meet a few last week on the beach in Florida who came down from snow country. They weren't making a big deal of it though.
 
Our response to this unnecessary mess, was to make a very generous cash donation to our community food bank . It was too late for many of them to make a plan or perhaps their resources were already taxed.
 
Somewhere a smart person wrote about repeating the same actions and expecting different results.

I'm not sure I'm smart enough to appreciate that comment, perhaps others are?[emoji23]
 
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