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Old 07-17-2017, 08:40 AM   #41
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Thank you for the replies! I will provide a more detailed response later today hopefully. Yes I meant she has 4 children sorry about the siblings confusion.
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Old 07-17-2017, 08:57 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by Moemg View Post
IMO you are rushing in too soon . Your Mom needs time to transition to her new status . She may not need your help for many years to come and when she does it may be more in the way of physical help than financial . In fact rushing in too soon may halt her learning to become independent . I can say this because my Mother was widowed at 64 with the same type of financial situation but less savings .She lived to 99 and did fine financially with some help from my sisters as she got older .Sure her life changed after my Dad died but that is to be expected . Lot's of widows live on a less amount and do fine . Give her a chance but be prepared to help later . It may never be equal among the siblings so accept that .
+1
You reminded me, my Mom was widowed at 65, my parents had very little savings, she did get about $100K life insurance, it was years ago, so more equal to $200K now.

She lived for over 20 years, took Church trips, traveled the world a few times with a University club, and eventually died of a sudden heart attack.
She left us a total of $140K inheritance.

So she managed very well on her meager gov't pension without any support needed.
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Old 07-17-2017, 11:32 AM   #43
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Actually I disagree with many of you. If the OP's siblings are inclined establish an account as a partnership for the benefit of their mother invested 50/50 and fund it with a modest contribution ($100) monthly... along the lines of an investment club. Write up an agreement that at the time your mother's passing the balance in the account will be distributed in proportion of the sibling's family contribution. If for any reason a contributor want's their money back they only can get back what they contributed or the value of their remaining share, whatever is the lower.

The minus is that the investment club will need to file a tax return each year.

Mom will not own the account so it shouldn't impact any benefits.
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Old 07-17-2017, 11:47 AM   #44
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Brat: you are solving a problem that does not exist and may never exist.
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Old 07-17-2017, 12:12 PM   #45
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Brat: you are solving a problem that does not exist and may never exist.
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Old 07-17-2017, 03:30 PM   #46
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Rant on.

+1 - Just because everybody does it (well it seems a lot of folks do) doesn't mean it's right. Unfortunately many of our "systems" today seem to almost promote such unethical behavior. Justify it in your mind (as smart, sly, crafty, acceptable, sop, etc) anyway you want but it's cheating and sponging off of your fellow taxpayers. Who do people that do things like this, think they are? Elected officials? It's no wonder why so many younger folks today think the way they do.

Rant off.
+2 While I have no problems with a taxpayer structuring their financial affairs to minimize the taxes they pay, or even those who structure their financial affairs to keep their income low to get Obamacare subsidies, for some reason that I can't explain I think it is unseemly for families to structure their financial affairs to pass assets to children in a way that keeps them out of the hands of Medicare for nursing home care.

I guess the difference is the amounts involved can be much more significant and that the subject's heirs are the beneficiaries of this chicanery, not the subjects... rather than have a 5 year rule they should also have some amount... something like any gifts in excess of $50,000 in total to heirs over 10 years are subject to clawback.... that should stop the games people play. What people give away to get Medicare to pay nursing home bills could be used to buy LTC insurance that would likely cover all or a large portion of their nursing home bills. Heirs should get what is left over after the subject's have provided for themselves to the extent that they have the resources to do so.
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Old 07-17-2017, 03:53 PM   #47
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+2 While I have no problems with a taxpayer structuring their financial affairs to minimize the taxes they pay, or even those who structure their financial affairs to keep their income low to get Obamacare subsidies, for some reason that I can't explain I think it is unseemly for families to structure their financial affairs to pass assets to children in a way that keeps them out of the hands of Medicare for nursing home care.

I guess the difference is the amounts involved can be much more significant and that the subject's heirs are the beneficiaries of this chicanery, not the subjects... rather than have a 5 year rule they should also have some amount... something like any gifts in excess of $50,000 in total to heirs over 10 years are subject to clawback.... that should stop the games people play. What people give away to get Medicare to pay nursing home bills could be used to buy LTC insurance that would likely cover all or a large portion of their nursing home bills. Heirs should get what is left over after the subject's have provided for themselves to the extent that they have the resources to do so.
I think the above are all unseemly and unethical.
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Old 07-17-2017, 03:54 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by pb4uski View Post
+2 While I have no problems with a taxpayer structuring their financial affairs to minimize the taxes they pay, or even those who structure their financial affairs to keep their income low to get Obamacare subsidies, for some reason that I can't explain I think it is unseemly for families to structure their financial affairs to pass assets to children in a way that keeps them out of the hands of Medicare for nursing home care.
Just to remind everyone, the thread topic and discussion is about the OP and siblings assisting their DM. There have been no serious suggestions to move assets to heirs and then ask for public support.
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Old 07-17-2017, 04:04 PM   #49
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Just to remind everyone, the thread topic and discussion is about the OP and siblings assisting their DM. There have been no serious suggestions to move assets to heirs and then ask for public support.
My bad... I read that into some of the posts.
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Old 07-17-2017, 04:08 PM   #50
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My bad... I read that into some of the posts.
Didn't mean to single you out - yes, there were others, and I'm not sure why this keeps coming up. The OP thread topic - siblings helping the DM - is still under discussion, and it would be helpful for every one to contribute to that.
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Old 07-17-2017, 10:07 PM   #51
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Again thank you for all of your replies. This has given me a lot to think about. I think Teacher Terry best summed it up for me by making me think I am trying to solve a problem that may never exist. My siblings and I have talked in general terms about finances but did not discuss setting up a fund. I can see where, as Rodi mention, resentment brewing among the siblings over money issues.

Also Youbet mentioned time & effort vs money becoming more of an issue. We sort of experienced that with our dad’s recent illness and passing. Two of us live close by and spent a considerable amount of time involved in my dad’s care with hospital stays, doctor visits and home care. The two out of state siblings visited and helped out when they could but even though it was nice to have relief it did create some underlying tension. And we do have time before dealing with any financial issues. Maybe we (the four kids) can open the discussion now and revisit it every few years as things change.

Euro mentioned not having a problem pitching in for his in-laws care. I posed the same question to my wife and she was good with it but I suspect among the other in-laws the answer may be different.

Pb4Uski mentioned dumping the money in Wellesley and with drawing $8-9k a year and see if she needs help later. That was one of my other questions. How do I deal with the $100k? I was either going to create a new thread here or post something in the boglehead forum. I wouldn’t want to go off on a tangent in my own thread.

Ivnisfan yes my dad asked me to take over their finances a couple of months ago when he realized he was terminal. My mom was in agreement with him.

Moemg yes I agree my mom needs time to transition so no reason to put anything in to motion now.

Thanks again for all of your input.
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Old 07-19-2017, 11:56 AM   #52
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Your mom is lucky indeed to have a child who cares enough to "worry" about her future financial (and probably health related decisions). God bless you in your efforts for you mom and I hope all works out well.
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