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Re: So, how exactly does this work?
Old 10-11-2006, 03:49 PM   #61
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Re: So, how exactly does this work?
Old 10-11-2006, 03:53 PM   #62
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Re: So, how exactly does this work?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sgeeeee


Like I said, I hope we don't start deciding what topics can and cannot be discussed based on majority opinion. That is, in fact, my central point. Did you really not get that?
The poll is to see how many agree with you on how this board should or should not be moderated. Not on what topics can or can't be discussed. But in any event, this is Dory's board and here is a copy of Dory's message on how we should behave:

Most of us are here because we enjoy interacting with and reading the interactions of the friends we have made on this forum, and making new friends on the forum, even though few have met or ever will meet face to face.

It's an unusual community brought together by our interest in early retirement, a topic often misunderstood or awkward to discuss with others, even family. ("Hey Dad, I know you're still working at 70, but now that I'm 40, I'm gona retire" can create some interesting results.) Although brought together by that common interest, we talk about a good many things, as does any such group.

Friends don't always agree on everything or even on most things. They can agree to disagree. When that happens, they might keep their discussions logical and free of name calling and so forth, or more often they just spend their time on other topics. They don't take every opportunity to express their disagreement, incite argument, insult each other, and fan flames. When they are incapable of avoiding this sort of thing, they become much more disruptive than welcome.

Most of us, while we welcome perspectives on all sides of any issue, would not invite a frequently and apparently intentionally disruptive or rude person to a gathering of friends at our homes, nor to any other gathering of friends that they are hosting.

We don't have rules about what is appropriate discussion material. We just ask everyone to follow the "reasonable person" principle. (Reasonable people don't need a definition.)

Thanks to everyone for keeping the tone appropriate for a group of friends. At least the vast majority of the time. Please keep it up!


This is our guide to Moderation. This discussion reminds me of your criticism of me when I suggested on one of our religion threads that name calling was not appropriate. You said:

Quote:
Originally Posted by sgeeeee
Okay. I am insulted, but I choose to engage.

Inflamatory words are not insulting to me. They are words that convey the thoughts and feelings of someone who is trying to communicate. They are communicating in a way that is actually very effective. I understand their position quite well. They are not holding any cards under the table. I may not like their opinion. I may become angry. But I give them credit for being honest.

I often find "tactful" conversation to be insulting. People in authoritative positions often think "tact" is more appropriate. They do not tell me what they are really feeling. Instead, they try to mask their agenda and avoid conflict. This is dishonest. Conflict exists and masking it in "tactful" words and phrases feels like an attempt to lie to me. It is condescending and insulting that these people feel that their approach to conversation is superior to mine. It, in effect, is a statement that they think that they are superior to me.

So if I threaten to leave the boards if one more moderator trys to push their "tact" on me, will you ask posters to stop being so tactful?

SG, the moderators disagree with your attitude.

I trust you will hang around anyway. Hope you do. Other than this one issue I generally agree with your opinions.


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Re: So, how exactly does this work?
Old 10-11-2006, 03:55 PM   #63
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Re: So, how exactly does this work?

BREWER! Behave yourself!
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Re: So, how exactly does this work?
Old 10-11-2006, 04:02 PM   #64
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Re: So, how exactly does this work?

Sorry, Martha. I get bored by these endless squabbles about nothing. Its like watching a Seinfeld episode without any of the jokes and with all of the characters wearing bags over their heads.
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Re: So, how exactly does this work?
Old 10-11-2006, 04:03 PM   #65
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Re: So, how exactly does this work?

Quote:
Originally Posted by brewer12345
Sorry, Martha. I get bored by these endless squabbles about nothing. Its like watching a Seinfeld episode without any of the jokes and with all of the characters wearing bags over their heads.
Good analogy. Apology accepted.
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Re: So, how exactly does this work?
Old 10-11-2006, 04:39 PM   #66
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Re: So, how exactly does this work?

I almost missed this thread- I thought it was about SWRs or something equally imaginary.

But I enjoy these squabbles. Lately I have marking blocks "Mark as read". I wish we could talk more about sex, but next to that I like fights the best.

Only one poster really annoyed me- he was a psycho that spent his time insulting members' wives. He was sent packing, and he should have been.

So letís all have a Big Dog Party, and not worry about pleasing everyone.

Ha
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Re: So, how exactly does this work?
Old 10-11-2006, 04:42 PM   #67
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Re: So, how exactly does this work?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nords
As much as we love getting customer feedback, we don't seek to wade through cesspools of it. Walk a mile in our shoes... or go start a board filled with the people you feel happy with.
This is an immoderate moderation.

Ha
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Re: So, how exactly does this work?
Old 10-11-2006, 05:03 PM   #68
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Re: So, how exactly does this work?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sgeeeee
Quote from: sgeeeee on October 10, 2006, 09:35:59 PM
Nords: You got it.
Sorry. I won't accept that one. My fealing is
Dory's board: Love it? Improve it.
I'll keep trying to do that until you force me off or I find I don't love it anymore. Don't expect me to stop complaining about over moderation when things like this happen.
SG, you haven't given anyone any reason to force anybody off the board.

I'm a bit surprised that someone of your background & accomplishments has chosen to behave as you do on this board. As you no doubt have learned during your career, you could do a lot more to shape this board by working to change it from within than you'll achieve by criticizing those who are doing the work which you choose not to. If you don't want to do the work or otherwise help the board, fine, but it means that you also don't get to criticize the management. Suggest improvements, sure, offer other help, fine-- but throwing hand grenades from the peanut gallery is not appreciated.

You're a smart guy with perceptive insights who makes valuable contributions. Criticizing the moderation is also something you can feel free to do, but I would suspect that you'll get farther with more concrete descriptors than "How weak and pathetic are you?" (I bet that goes over good during a publicity interview!) You've been here long enough to know how things work. If you can live with it then you're welcome to keep making your positive contributions. If you find it intolerable then you can go somewhere else. The moderators will do what they feel is necessary, aided by board feedback and Dory's tolerance.

Some people feel that a board with a lot of uninhibited yelling & screaming flaming discourse is a healthy way to vent. I used to work in a submarine like that, where either the CO or the Engineer felt entitled to explode in rage with no warning. One day the Eng did it at another person while my back was turned and my flinching at the noise launched hot coffee across most of the room. We decided that operatic outbursts were probably a bad idea for the rest of the group, no matter how good they made the leaders feel. So, no, you don't get to say anything you want here and if we ask you to turn it off or take it somewhere else then we'll expect you to do that.

If you're getting the impression that I care more for the board's environment than I do for some of the posters, you're right. But this does not have to be a zero-sum game. I suspect we'll get more out of contributing than conflicting.

But if this is making you as grumpy as TH, then I understand.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HaHa
This is an immoderate moderation.
Ha
Point taken, and I appreciate the smiley sentiment.

I'm not comparing feedback to a cesspool as much as I was trying to give the image of us standing around discussing what to do while the waters were rising higher. In this case we'd heard more than enough and we'd made plenty of requests to tone it down or take it somewhere else.

OK, guys, I'm done with this topic on a public stage. Additional feedback can be sent to me by PM or by e-mail.
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Re: So, how exactly does this work?
Old 10-11-2006, 05:32 PM   #69
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Re: So, how exactly does this work?

The End!
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Re: So, how exactly does this work?
Old 10-11-2006, 06:00 PM   #70
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Re: So, how exactly does this work?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nords
SG, you haven't given anyone any reason to force anybody off the board.
I'll keep trying.

Quote:
I'm a bit surprised that someone of your background & accomplishments has chosen to behave as you do on this board.
Probably no more surprised than I am by the behavior of you, Martha and Brewer. The defense of the moderator's decision to lock a thread simply because they were bored is so reactionary I am shocked. Why not simply admit that this was probably a mistake? that there really was no good reason to do that? and pledge to be more reasonable in the future?

Quote:
As you no doubt have learned during your career, you could do a lot more to shape this board by working to change it from within than you'll achieve by criticizing those who are doing the work which you choose not to.
Actually, that's not true at all. It really depends on a lot of factors. Dismantling a brick room can be done by chinking away from inside with a hammer and chisel, but sometimes it is more effective to crash a headache ball on the structure from the outside. I'm not sure what choices you believe I've made about work on this board.

Quote:
If you don't want to do the work or otherwise help the board, fine, but it means that you also don't get to criticize the management. Suggest improvements, sure, offer other help, fine-- but throwing hand grenades from the peanut gallery is not appreciated.
I am helping the board, and in this case in the only way I can see to have the desired impact. My comments have been on point and constructive. I suspect that the reason you find exception to them is because they put some of your actions in question. If I could make the point without doing that, I would.

Quote:
You're a smart guy with perceptive insights who makes valuable contributions. Criticizing the moderation is also something you can feel free to do, but I would suspect that you'll get farther with more concrete descriptors than "How weak and pathetic are you?" (I bet that goes over good during a publicity interview!)
I'm always amazed when people condescendingly attack another person for being condescending. I was, of course, being sarcastic with those remarks. I thought that was obvious by some of the other comments in those posts.

Quote:
You've been here long enough to know how things work. If you can live with it then you're welcome to keep making your positive contributions. If you find it intolerable then you can go somewhere else. The moderators will do what they feel is necessary, aided by board feedback and Dory's tolerance.
And you've been here long enough to know that I will comment every time I sense heavy handed moderation that discourages diversity rather than encourages it. If you can live with that, then you're welcome to continue to attack my stance. If you find it intolerable then you can go somewhere else. I will do what I feel necessary.

Quote:
. . .So, no, you don't get to say anything you want here and if we ask you to turn it off or take it somewhere else then we'll expect you to do that.
Not going to happen, Nords. You can ban me, but you can't shut me up by trying to pull this kind of superior position BS. In fact, this kind of comment only convinces me that I need to redouble my efforts to thwart rampent moderation. I am questioning the threshold of censure on the board. Don't threaten to censure me and expect me to back off.

Quote:
If you're getting the impression that I care more for the board's environment than I do for some of the posters, you're right. But this does not have to be a zero-sum game. I suspect we'll get more out of contributing than conflicting.
That's not the impression you are leaving me with at all. The impression I am left with is not very complimentary to you, but it does not involve the way you balance my inputs vs the board's environment. The implication that my questioning the moderator's action places the board environment in jeopardy is really pretty insulting.

Quote:
OK, guys, I'm done with this topic on a public stage. Additional feedback can be sent to me by PM or by e-mail.
Or I can post more here . . .
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Re: So, how exactly does this work?
Old 10-11-2006, 06:03 PM   #71
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Re: So, how exactly does this work?

Ah hem, The End!
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Re: So, how exactly does this work?
Old 10-11-2006, 06:25 PM   #72
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Re: So, how exactly does this work?

Like cube-rat said...

Thiiiiss isss theee ehhheend
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Re: So, how exactly does this work?
Old 10-11-2006, 06:34 PM   #73
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Re: So, how exactly does this work?

Quote:
Originally Posted by donheff
Like cube-rat said...

Thiiiiss isss theee ehhheend
Nahhhh....... Only the moderators can protect us from ourselves. Besides, I just pledged to Nords to redouble my efforts. I would guess we are in for several more days of this.
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Re: So, how exactly does this work?
Old 10-11-2006, 06:39 PM   #74
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Re: So, how exactly does this work?

Hmmmmm

10/06/2006 Commander's Palace in the Garden District reopened last Friday.

Screw skinny.

heh heh heh heh heh - alas I was in Missouri.
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Re: So, how exactly does this work?
Old 10-11-2006, 07:09 PM   #75
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Re: So, how exactly does this work?

Quote:
Originally Posted by HaHa


So letís all have a Big Dog Party.

Ha
Hey, I'm all for that.
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Re: So, how exactly does this work?
Old 10-12-2006, 02:39 AM   #76
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Re: So, how exactly does this work?

Quote:
Originally Posted by unclemick2
Hmmmmm

10/06/2006 Commander's Palace in the Garden District reopened last Friday.

Screw skinny.

heh heh heh heh heh - alas I was in Missouri.
Is Commander's Palace a Chinese restaurant? (I am hungry; it is 2:38 a.m. I think we have some left-over Roast Pork and Mushroom from the Taste of China here...)

Edit: Never mind, unclemick; I googled it and saw it is a fine dining establishment in New Orleans. The menu sounds divinely yummy!
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Re: So, how exactly does this work?
Old 10-12-2006, 06:59 AM   #77
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Re: So, how exactly does this work?

Quote:
Originally Posted by unclemick2
Hmmmmm

10/06/2006 Commander's Palace in the Garden District reopened last Friday.

Screw skinny.

heh heh heh heh heh - alas I was in Missouri.
UM, any idea abou the status/fate of Ugglesich's or Arnaud's?
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Re: So, how exactly does this work?
Old 10-12-2006, 08:17 AM   #78
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Re: So, how exactly does this work?

Brewer

I googled nola.com - looks like Uglesich and Arnaud's are both open.

Won't be visting that way until Christmas time - have to fatten up on KC BBQ in the meantime.

heh heh heh heh
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