Social Security Reform - Today's News............

[Jarhead*]

R40,

Please tell us why you are so impressed with this statistic. And going further, have you come to any conclusions on what should be done about this?

We're listening.

Cutthroat: While you're waiting for a reply from R40,
just a thought.
Why not propose an easier question. Maybe on how to perform brain surgery in the dark?
I for one, after living for 30 years in an area where whites were the minorities, I am fully aware of the statistics. (By the way, my grandparents were both Spanish immigrants).
Civil rights appears to be foremost on your radar screen, and that is commendable, unless you are being a "cocktail party liberal". (Term used by minorities in my former area).
If you are fighting the good fight, and not just posting your thoughts on an internet board, good for you.
Are you involved in any marches, protests, etc.?

Cutthroat: *While you're waiting for a reply from R40,
just a thought.
Why not propose an easier question. *Maybe on how to perform brain surgery in the dark?
I for one, after living for 30 years in an area where whites were the minorities, I am fully aware of the statistics. *(By the way, my grandparents were both Spanish immigrants).
Civil rights appears to be foremost on your radar screen, and that is commendable, unless you are being a "cocktail party liberal". (Term used by minorities in my former area).
If you are fighting the good fight, and not just posting your thoughts on an internet board, good for you.
Are you involved in any marches, protests, etc.?

Jarhead: - Really surprised at you! - While I am no Martin Luther King, I'll answer your question like this.

You don't have to be a member of the Ku Klux Klan to be part of the problem.

For evil to persist, all it takes is for good men to do nothing. Even if they only restrain themselves from internet posting.

[retire@40]

Please tell us why you are so impressed with this statistic. And going further, have you come to any conclusions on what should be done about this? We're listening.

If you are not amazed at 12% of the population committing 44% of all crimes, then it must be tough to impress you. By the way, you supplied this stat not me.

I don't know what your solution is since you haven't provided one, but mine is that you can't make people not behave like criminals. So unless they can figure it out for themselves my solution is to keep building more prisons.

If you are not amazed at 12% of the population committing 44% of all crimes, then it must be tough to impress you. *By the way, you supplied this stat not me.

I don't know what your solution is since you haven't provided one, but mine is that you can't make people not behave like criminals. *So unless they can figure it out for themselves my solution is to keep building more prisons.

You leapt to the conclusion that 12% of the population was committing 44% of the crimes.

This presumes that all of the criminals were caught, prosecuted justly and evenly and Incarcerated. We know that this is not the case.

Do you see how your reasoning is more flawed than the current system?

Build more prisons? - Sometimes, I meet people that make me ashamed to be a human being.

Guest,

How about answering Mickey's question "what kind of minority are you? I grew up in Hawaii, as a caucasion I was a minority also. So what? Do I believe that this distinction lets me somehow identify with the plight of the African Americans, the Native Americans, the Native Hawaiians, the Central, and South American immigrants The answer is no. Do I have some superior understanding of what it means to be a minority in the US? NO! Do I believe that there have been advances in the past 40 years? The answer is YES. Do I believe that racism doesn't exist in the US today? The answer is NO.

I will to continue to "fight" for these peoples as best I can by voting for politicians who I bellieve have their best interests at heart, to vocalize support for policies that serve to ameliorate the damage of past segregationist and repressive policies, and yes to demonstrate for changes that honestly serve to better the conditions for ALL of US citizens. If that means I am termed a "pointy headed liberal" or a "cocktail party liberal", so be it.

I still can look at myself in the mirror and honestly feel I'm postively contributing to the solution instead of somehow whining, rationilizing and justifying the current state of affairs and bemoaning the minimal advances available to people that have suffered during these years of repression.

Don't really know what this has to do with the subject but then again I didn't start this line of discussion.


On topic; I believe that the proposed changes of the bushies will do nothing more than destroy the SS system as it exists today. The whole beauty of the current system is that it is a "minimal" amount meant as a safety net for those less fortunate individuals who would otherwise be a burden to their families and ultimately to the state. If one wants to one can under the current system invest any amount of their income in whatever investments he or she chooses. I believ that this is exactly the major advantage to the current system.

However some of us are relying on the little we may receive as a "supplement" to the monies we've put away. For myself it's allowed me to be a little more "aggressive" in my investing strategies while I've been working.

Regards,
RBC

C-T

You leapt to the conclusion that 12% of the population was committing 44% of the crimes.

This presumes that all of the criminals were caught, prosecuted justly and evenly and Incarcerated. We know that this is not the case.

And if all criminals were caught and all got prosecuted/jailed what makes you think this ratio would change? What makes you think it wouldn't look even worse?

C-T

And if all criminals were caught and all got prosecuted/jailed what makes you think this ratio would change? *What makes you think it wouldn't look even worse?

So, what does that say to you? - Are you saying that Blacks are more inherently evil than whites? Or are you saying that this country's history of discrimination, slavery and injustices have provided an economic playing field that is very difficult to overcome?

[wabmester]

Are you saying that Blacks are more inherently evil than whites? Or are you saying that this country's history of discrimination, slavery and injustices have provided an economic playing field that is very difficult to overcome?

CT, I'm just curious where you're going with this. The solution is obvious: kill whitey and redistribute his wealth. But I'm pretty sure even the most bleeding-heart liberal isn't ready to embrace this strategy.

Wab,

The only place I'm going with this, is just the recognition that racism is alive, well and thriving in this society. Just look at some of the posts in this thread. That is the first step in righting wrongs!

The post that started this basically described things in Mississippi as all hunky dory and that discrimination was a thing of the past and did not affect current economic conditions.

No I don't propose kill whitey, but I don't think building more prisons is even in the ballpark.

[wabmester]

The only place I'm going with this, is just the recognition that racism is alive, well and thriving in this society. Just look at some of the posts in this thread. That is the first step in righting wrongs!

I'm skeptical that this is even a step in the right direction. * I think part of the problem is labeling people as racist.

I don't think there's any question that cultural, educational, and economic factors will keep the *poor* man down, whatever his race.

Now, there's a much nastier question that liberals (like me) hate to address. * Could there be a genetic basis for people belonging to the underclass? * I think the answer is obviously yes, and I think some white people and some black people will be doomed for generations to come, regardless of how hard we all try to help them.

Here's where my contrarian views really get me in trouble. * First, let me say that I don't think I'm a racist. * I believe strongly that members of all the people we divide into "races" can attain the highest levels of human accomplishment.

But what if there were a social group that failed for generations to escape crime and poverty? * And what if members of that group were descended from slaves? * Isn't it possible that slaves weren't selected from a high-achieving gene pool?

The "liberal" solutions to the problem you're describing seem off-base to me. * We shouldn't necessarily have race-based policies to overcome a history of oppression.

I think this country has done a pretty good job of allowing motivated people to escape the bonds of poverty.

But a much more difficult question, which I don't think the typical liberal ideas address, is what can you do for people who aren't motivated, for whatever reason: cultural, educational, genetic, etc?

Personally, I think if we accept the idea that some people won't buy into the WASP idea of success, whatever their race, then we can begin to address the social needs of those people better than we are today.

I wouldn't mind being taxed to build more prisons, as long as they filled them with liberal politicians. I would rather
take my chances with the criminals, at least as long as we still have the Second Amendment

JG

[sgeeeee]

I wouldn't mind being taxed to build more prisons, as long as they filled them with liberal politicians. *I would rather
take my chances with the criminals, at least as long as we still have the Second Amendment *

JG

OK. It's a deal, John. We'll start taxing you extra now. And as soon as you pay off the debt run up by the current administration, we'll take the extra money you give and build as many prisons as you can afford -- to jail the liberals.

How much extra are you willing to give, John?

How much extra are you willing to give, John?

How much extra are you willing to give, John?

C'mon, he's a businessman. All he'll do is pass the cost on to somebody else and go running to the Gov't for more welfare to pay for his bad decisions.

(Sorry about the double post...tried to delete it but they want me to join something. The Boss can feel free to delete it ASAP)

[Jarhead*]

[quote]


But what if there were a social group that failed for generations to escape crime and poverty? * And what if members of that group were descended from slaves? * Isn't it possible that slaves weren't selected from a high-achieving gene pool?

Wab: Very close to what Jimmy the Greek said from a somewhat different perspective, and lost his job with the Networks for his racist statement.
When asked why the blacks are superior athletes, he said that the slaves were screened and only the ones that were physically above average were chosen. Made sense to me then, and I'll be damned if it still doesn't make sense now.
He, of course, should have known better than say anything on National Television that is even slightly politically incorrect.
I'm sure he figured that it was a fairly accurate and innocuous statement. He was wrong!
Everything I've read about him and friends of his all point to the fact that he was no racist.
I think we've gone a littly "goofy" with the racist label in this country.

[wabmester]

Yeah, I know. I've been accused of being a racist before for bringing up that particular oddball idea. I have lots of oddball ideas, but that's the only one that really brings out the witch-hunter in people. I find that attitude more repulsive than some of the more innocuous "racist" comments I've heard.

But I usually try to keep that one to myself, because I understand better than most how people can use such ideas to justify crimes against humanity. This is obviously a difficult subject to discuss rationally, which I'm sure is why C-T raised it in the first place

[BigMoneyJim]

Drug related gangs have driven blacks and whites out of public schools, I feel sorry for the ones that want to leave and can't because of cost. Most of the drugs are in the gov't projects, and there are alot of them. The people who live in the projects seem to be happy just living there ,doing drugs , drinking and living off the gov't. Thats sad,but I worked in these pojects for 30 years and saw it evryday. Thats what I call slaves to the gov't. programs.

If a better alternative was suggested to remedy this, I missed it.

As far as racial representation in prison, I wonder how that compares with poverty levels among races? Anyone have those numbers?

This is my last post on this topic.

You can certainly dicsuss this topic rationally, until you bring up irrational ideas like genetics.

We have already had the solution of 'building more prisons'. This is just a short step from Auschwitz.

The solution for all of these problems was for humans to not to have been racists.

The solution today is also to stop being a racist.

[retire@40]

This is my last post on this topic.

You can certainly dicsuss this topic rationally, until you bring up irrational ideas like genetics.

We have already had the solution of 'building more prisons'. This is just a short step from Auschwitz.

Funny how you can be so critical of everybody else's solutions, but in all these postings you haven't provided one yourself.

[BigMoneyJim]

To answer my own number request I did some quick googling. I'm not familiar with the Population Reference Bureau and haven't double-checked this info. Also note there's not quite enough info here to compare to Cut-Throat's posted prison population graph (neither includes overall racial ratio of the U.S., and we don't know if both statistics are from the same year), however my intuition before and after seeing these numbers is that poverty--not race--is a strong indicator of prison population.

Almost half of all families in poverty are white, a little more than a quarter are black, slightly less than a quarter are Hispanic, and the remainder are Asian or from other groups. But when poverty rates are examined by race/
ethnicity, whites are less likely than other groups to be poor. In fact, black and Hispanic families are about three times more likely to live in poverty than white families.

From Population Reference Bureau