Solar Electric Assist--- NOT working

[jonat]

I have a roof rake with a plastic blade that I use to clear snow off my panels. Once I get some of them clear, the rest tend to clear themselves in short order. I do have the advantage that the panels are on the roof of my garage, thus only one floor up, whereas the photo shows panels two floors up, making it more difficult. But I go around my neighborhood where several homes have solar panels, and I never see snow remain on them for long.

[ls99]

Nothing but grass planted in these new developments. The grass is treated with weedkiller/insecticide/bugicide stuff so nasty birds won't stay but a moment after landing, no insects, nothing for the butterlies to hang around for... Meantime it is the silent spring coming up. I hae seen several of these in the Johnstown Somerset outskirts.

Maybe when it is abandoned for lack of usefullness, and no further "beautification" treatments, then nature can take over.

[NW-Bound]

OK. So, I guess just having solar panels do not qualify the neighborhood as being "green".

But it is still real green grass. In Mesa, a retirement town east of Phoenix, many homes do not have much vegetation, and just rock gardens all around. They look awful when I was younger, but now can see why these geezers want a low, well, actually zero maintenance yard.

The subdivision in the photo will look OK with real grass, kids playing on it, or riding their bikes on the sidewalk, adults with adult beverages tending their BBQ. I would not be so harsh.

[ERD50]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ls99 Nothing but grass planted in these new developments. The grass is treated with weedkiller/insecticide/bugicide stuff so nasty birds won't stay but a moment after landing, no insects, nothing for the butterlies to hang around for... Meantime it is the silent spring coming up. I hae seen several of these in the Johnstown Somerset outskirts. Maybe when it is abandoned for lack of usefullness, and no further "beautification" treatments, then nature can take over.

Really? Have any evidence of that?

I tend to use a minimal amount of pesticides and fertilizer on my lawn (part cheapskate, part environmentalist), but most of the neighbors go full tilt with a lawn service. We all have lots of wildlife.

-ERD50

[NW-Bound]

Out of curiosity, I looked on Google Earth trying to find this neighborhood. Gave up, and went to Zillow and could not find it either. Boy, looks like Johnstown has some really depressed areas.

[ls99]

Quote:

Originally Posted by NW-Bound Out of curiosity, I looked on Google Earth trying to find this neighborhood. Gave up, and went to Zillow and could not find it either. Boy, looks like Johnstown has some really depressed areas.

Ayep. After the steel/coke mills closed down poverty really kicked in. Altough during the steel heydeys the air pollution was horrendous. Many of the old buildings still have the old grime. Grunge is prevalent in many areas.

[ls99]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ERD50 Really? Have any evidence of that? I tend to use a minimal amount of pesticides and fertilizer on my lawn (part cheapskate, part environmentalist), but most of the neighbors go full tilt with a lawn service. We all have lots of wildlife. -ERD50

I'll see if I can get some grass samples for you in May/June. Around here it is either wild or farm or some idea of anything but weeds and pests in the finely manicured lawn. Not unusual to read in the summer about kids hauled to hospitals after playing in the "freshly or recently treated" manicured lawns.

[SteveNU]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ls99 My guess is that the houses are crappily ]poorly insulated, have lots of air leaks, cheaply built, residents trying to keep warm run electric backup heating (as previously mentioned) without understanding how heat pump and their backup systems work... BTW, by the lamp post shadow, hope the photo was not taken at noon time And I don't feel like taking a 60 mile round trip to have a closer look. Agree with the dreary look comments, I would never live there. Rather live in a tepee.

The article says these are brand new low income housing units. I would guess that some of the tenants have no understanding of how the thermostat works and they probably keep the windows open because it's so hot inside.....

[NW-Bound]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveNU The article says these are brand new low income housing units. I would guess that some of the tenants have no understanding of how the thermostat works and they probably keep the windows open because it's so hot inside.....

You made me read the article. Yes, the poor homeowners did not know.

Kari Imhoff, who moved with her two children into Highland Hills in November, was billed $396.58 for 2,843 kilowatt-hours in December, $449.51 for 3,380 kilowatt-hours in January and $574.77 for 4,040 kilowatt-hours in February, copies of her bills indicate.

Imhoff said she inadvertently left her thermostat set to EM HEAT – that is, “emergency heat” – rather than simply HEAT, not knowing that would cause her energy use to spike.

It made me look at my electric bills. No problem with heating here, but in the hottest month of August last year, I used 2,565 kWhrs, at a cost of $320 for a home twice the size.

[Out of Steam]

Somerset, PA is a very severe climate to have a air-source heat pump without a fuel backup, whether gas, oil, or pellet stove. Climate is also fairly gray and cloudy, so the solar panels are kind of marginal.

The area also has significant elevation and lake-effect snow. Think northern Ohio or Michigan, rather than Philadelphia. Lack of backup heat other than resistance is the mistake.

[Amethyst]

Obviously the people who live there like it (or can tolerate it) or they wouldn't live there. As my Mother would have said, "Oh, they're probably lovely inside."

Do kids still play outdoors somewhere?

Quote:

Originally Posted by NW-Bound The subdivision in the photo will look OK with real grass, kids playing on it, or riding their bikes on the sidewalk, adults with adult beverages tending their BBQ. I would not be so harsh.

[Amethyst]

If we did that our bills would be in the thousands (they are already in the hundreds).

I can see where somebody with their first house might not know, especially if they were used to gas heat previously.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NW-Bound Imhoff said she inadvertently left her thermostat set to EM HEAT – that is, “emergency heat” – rather than simply HEAT, not knowing that would cause her energy use to spike.[/INDENT][/I] .

[HFWR]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amethyst If we did that our bills would be in the thousands (they are already in the hundreds). I can see where somebody with their first house might not know, especially if they were used to gas heat previously.

There are lots of folks who don't know (how) to change the a/c filter, clean the dryer lint screen, check motor oil, program a thermostat...

[NW-Bound]

I wonder why the thermostat has an Emergency Heat setting. In my high-country boondocks home, the heat pump has dual two-stage resistance heaters. These are kicked in sequentially as needed by the thermostat. I do not need to do anything to select them.

[samclem]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Out of Steam Somerset, PA is a very severe climate to have a air-source heat pump without a fuel backup, whether gas, oil, or pellet stove. Climate is also fairly gray and cloudy, so the solar panels are kind of marginal. The area also has significant elevation and lake-effect snow. Think northern Ohio or Michigan, rather than Philadelphia. Lack of backup heat other than resistance is the mistake.

Agreed. A ground-source heat pump (GSHP) (aka "geothermal") would probably work well, but the installation costs generally make them impractical for low-cost housing. I've heard of some interesting GSHP installations in the northeast that had very low costs for the "ground loop," but it was a special case. The homes were on well water and the well was about 2K' deep (to get to a reliable water source). Just the regular well casing provided enough area for heat exchange with the soil/rock. In the winter they'd pump the water up, run it through the heat exchanger with the working fluid, then dump the cold water back into the well at the top and let it run down the walls to the bottom. By the time it got there it was almost at the normal ambient water temp for that depth. Seemed to work fine and no need for a new, expensive "dump" well. I wonder if authorities in all areas would be okay with using a potable water well in this way.

[travelover]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Out of Steam Somerset, PA is a very severe climate to have a air-source heat pump without a fuel backup, whether gas, oil, or pellet stove. Climate is also fairly gray and cloudy, so the solar panels are kind of marginal.............

Exactly. Wrong heating system for this location and marginal solar application, as well.

[samclem]

Quote:

Originally Posted by NW-Bound I wonder why the thermostat has an Emergency Heat setting. In my high-country boondocks home, the heat pump has dual two-stage resistance heaters. These are kicked in sequentially as needed by the thermostat. I do not need to do anything to select them.

I think the "Emergency" setting is fairly common, our home in NC had that setup. Maybe so you know you've consciously selected it and can know to apply for a third mortgage to pay that month's electric bill? It's not great--you can go on vacation in the winter and have a lot of damage from frozen pipes/etc if you left the thermostat on "normal."

[mpeirce]

Quote:

Originally Posted by NW-Bound I wonder why the thermostat has an Emergency Heat setting. In my high-country boondocks home, the heat pump has dual two-stage resistance heaters. These are kicked in sequentially as needed by the thermostat. I do not need to do anything to select them.

Our thermostat has an E Heat setting. It simply overrides the use of the heat pump for heating and forces the use of the gas furnace. It seems to switch over when the outside temperature is lower than around maybe 45°F.

When it was installed (17+ years ago) it was supposedly calibrated to use the heat pump (all electric based) for heat in warmer weather, then switch to gas when the heat pump has less efficient, saving us money.

Since both electricity and natural gas have changed price over the years I doubt it's optimizing things these days.

[jazz4cash]

I always thought panels should have heaters to melt the snow. My neighbors system stays clear up to about 2 inches once the sun comes out.

[meierlde]

Quote:

Originally Posted by samclem I think the "Emergency" setting is fairly common, our home in NC had that setup. Maybe so you know you've consciously selected it and can know to apply for a third mortgage to pay that month's electric bill? It's not great--you can go on vacation in the winter and have a lot of damage from frozen pipes/etc if you left the thermostat on "normal."

The setting is for when your external unit is not working either because of a mechanical failure, or because it froze up (perhaps due to defrost board failure). One example I had a unit blow the low voltage fuse every time the outdoor unit cycled on due to a short on a wire inside it. During the week it took for the repair guys to find the problem kept the unit on emergency heat. (Note that if the temp falls into the teens then you are effectively on resistance heat also (It is called auxiliary heat and is used because a heat pump becomes less efficient the colder it is outside.)