Solar, Wind Renewable Energy

[ERD50]

And this post from the weather thread would fit in on the subject:

Quote:

Originally Posted by REWahoo Here on the eastern edge of the Chihuahuan desert our rainfall averages just over 30 inches a year. In the past six weeks we've seen 25 inches and rain is forecast every day for the next week. I miss the sun.

A week of near zero solar. Not sure of the wind, but for those thinking we can go 100% RE, that's a lot of energy to make up.

-ERD50

[NW-Bound]

Better keep those nuke plants in tip-top shape!

[Red Badger]

I guess I'll chime in on the supply issue - not the cost side.

So I'm a 20 YO kid in the Midwest small town circa 1976-ish. The oil embargo is in full swing. Gas is odd-even days, and limit is 5 gallons (if there is any to be had). So, there's a billboard on main street, perhaps from the recently minted** EPA. It's a graphic of the globe superimposed on an automobile fuel gauge. The needle was at 1/4 tank and the caption was "Now what?" 40+ years later - - - now I know the "now what." The US is an energy exporter and we're debating here what is the optimum source of energy.

**Not sure of the source, but I doubt there was an environmental group in 1976 that would buy a billboard in a town of ~6000. But perhaps the DOE or EPA? I think so.

[TwoByFour]

The US is not an energy exporter, although we are close, like 90% self-reliant. But we still import a lot of crude oil. We export a lot of refined products and natural gas but the overall balance is that more energy comes in to the US then goes out.

[Chuckanut]

Here's an interesting story regarding what some renewable energy programs are up against. As I have been reading lately, land use policies are going to be a big hangup for some renewables.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/hampton...ct-11650058015

Hamptons Residents Fight Offshore Wind Project

Quote:

Local opposition to renewable-energy projects from large-scale solar farms to windmills on land and sea is delaying and sometimes halting the shift away from fossil fuels.

Quote:

More than 200 wind and solar projects face local opposition, according to Columbia University’s Sabin Center for Climate Change Law, which backs green projects through a pro bono partnership with the law firm Arnold & Porter. That is up from roughly 165 in September. The Sabin Center worked for a group of residents who argued in favor of South Fork.

[RobLJ]

I, at least, care.
My panels created 15.57 mwh last year; it has a SolarEdge inverter with an app that reports hourly, daily, monthly, yearly production on a cell phone or browser. We did lose 2 weeks of production last April to replace the inverter (under warranty). Production was 15.96 in 2020; the difference was mostly the 2 week outage and the high heat in July/August in 2021.

I suspect discovering regular production is harder for older installations that don't use the SolarEdge or Enphase inverters.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NW-Bound In walking around our neighborhood, I saw so many homes with a lousy solar installation. Either the roof is facing the wrong way and the panels would produce a fraction of what they are capable of, or there are trees blocking the sunlight for a few hours each day. The installer does not care. The government paying the tax rebate does not care. The home owner probably cares, but does not know enough to question. I am sure that if you ask people how much electricity their solar systems produce, the numbers will be all over the place.

[NW-Bound]

Quote:

Originally Posted by RobLJ My panels created 15.57 mwh last year...

My solar system is underused. It's an off-grid system with a storage battery, and does not feed excess power production into the grid. Prior to the peak summer heat, it generates more electricity than I use, and once the battery is full, the excess potential production is simply wasted. For example, today as well as the last several weeks, the charge controllers throttle down at about 11AM because the battery is already full.

Yet, once it gets to 120F the battery only gets partially charged because the ACs draw a lot of solar power as it is generated. Hence, the battery runs out at about 8PM. When that happens, everything switches to the grid.

If the high is only 110F or so, it's not as hot at night and the battery can carry the ACs throughout the night until the sun rises again.

So, my measure of solar production is different. I compare the energy I draw from the grid prior to installing this DIY solar system to what I draw now.

In the last 12 months, I used 11.528 MWh less from the grid than what I used back in 2017.

[travelover]

Quote:

Originally Posted by NW-Bound My solar system is underused. It's an off-grid system with a storage battery, and does not feed excess power production into the grid. Prior to the peak summer heat, it generates more electricity than I use, and once the battery is full, the excess potential production is simply wasted.......

You need to mount a coin operated EV charge station by your house. Charge a little less than the power company per KwH.

[Koolau]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chuckanut Here's an interesting story regarding what some renewable energy programs are up against. As I have been reading lately, land use policies are going to be a big hangup for some renewables.

I've mentioned before that there were (almost violent - chaining to fences, standing in front of moving trucks, lots of arrests, etc.) protests against putting up (IIRC) a dozen or so windmills on the North Shore. They won't make a dent in our electrical supply but they're a start toward renewable energy. We are blessed with wind and mountain slopes not suitable for anything else, but...

It turns out that there is a constituency against EVERYTHING. The only reason we have liquid fuels for vehicles and electricity for everything else is that these were implemented 100 years ago before any tom-dick-or-harry constituency could sue to stop everything. Building our first Walmart took YEARS to get approved environmentally and then it was stopped for (IIRC) 2 years because someone found some bones during construction.

At this point, I think the "march" toward renewables will not be thwarted by technology or even general public acceptance. It will be stopped by the tom-dick-and-harrys of the world. End of rant as YMMV.

[NW-Bound]

Quote:

Originally Posted by travelover You need to mount a coin operated EV charge station by your house. Charge a little less than the power company per KwH.

I don't think EV charging stations set different rates depending on time of day or the season yet, but on the wholesale market this is the time when utilities can get solar energy for less than 3c/kWh.

And this is also the season when AZ and other states got paid to take solar power from CA, as reported by LA Times a few years ago.

The problem with wind and solar power is that sometimes you have so much of it, you don't know what to do with it. Then, there are days you don't have enough.

How do you store flood water from a hurricane, or send it off to places with drought?

[mpeirce]

Quote:

Originally Posted by NW-Bound I don't think EV charging stations set different rates depending on time of day or the season yet

I’m trying to think of another product were people have to pay more based on the time of day and can’t really come up with one.

I wonder how this will work out for people to deal with it.

If your electricity supply is predominantly solar, then it should be cheaper to use electricity based on night/day cycles and to a lesser extent if it’s cloudy vs sunny.

Wind is trickier, wind power is more plentiful when the wind is blowing, but not hard (it shuts down when it’s too windy). So zero availability when the window calm, and also zero when it’s above maybe 25(?) mph and on a sliding scale in between.

I expect this is too many variables for most people to think about.

[Sunset]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mpeirce I’m trying to think of another product were people have to pay more based on the time of day and can’t really come up with one. ..

Restaurants, very common for lunch or early bird supper to be cheaper than 6pm or later supper.

[travelover]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sunset Restaurants, very common for lunch or early bird supper to be cheaper than 6pm or later supper.

Also Uber has a sliding scale based on demand.

[Gumby]

Road tolls in areas with congestion pricing. Airline tickets.

[Mr._Graybeard]

The local paper had an interesting story about a farmer who cut a deal to have a "solar farm" (massive solar panel array) built on his acreage in southern Wisconsin. This guy boasts of shaking Nixon's hand. https://www.jsonline.com/story/money...ar/9510694002/

Wisconsin is not a particularly sunny state. In fact, if you look at solar energy maps, it's near the bottom of the scale. Nevertheless, a regional utility has plans for his property.

I have a few acres myself -- if the payback is sufficient, I might consider it. Cash-crop rental is not that lucrative.

[misanman]

Quote:

The problem with wind and solar power is that sometimes you have so much of it, you don't know what to do with it. Then, there are days you don't have enough.

I think it's a bit worse than that - on the grid, the power consumed must match the power generated. So it is critical to be able to find someone who can use the excess when you have it.

[HenryD]

Quote:

Originally Posted by misanman I think it's a bit worse than that - on the grid, the power consumed must match the power generated. So it is critical to be able to find someone who can use the excess when you have it.

That's why we'll need more and more grid-scale storage, and innovations like Packetized Energy - https://spectrum.ieee.org/packetized-power-grid

[ocean view]

Quote:

Originally Posted by NW-Bound I don't think EV charging stations set different rates depending on time of day or the season yet

8-10 years ago I had to research EV charging station pricing for work and learned that only a utility company is allowed to resell electricity. As a result, the EV charge network operators (like Chargepoint) have to base fees on time rather than actual electricity consumption. I don’t know if that rule has changed, but I suspect it has not.

[street]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ocean view 8-10 years ago I had to research EV charging station pricing for work and learned that only a utility company is allowed to resell electricity. As a result, the EV charge network operators (like Chargepoint) have to base fees on time rather than actual electricity consumption. I don’t know if that rule has changed, but I suspect it has not.

I believe that is still true as of today. There are many good reason why that is a law.
I won't go into detail about that.

[Masquernom]

Two companies have attempted to install large solar panel facilities near the town I grew up near in Kentucky. Apparently, many of the local farmers were happy to sign up to allow the panels to be installed on their farms. However, the community members banded together to force the local jurisdiction to not rezone the farm land to multi-use so the projects could proceed. Currently, I think one project is pretty much cancelled now. The other has another zoning vote upcoming. It's a typical NIMBY situation. People claim they don't want their views spoiled while driving past the installations.