Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 08-13-2013, 09:43 AM   #21
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
growing_older's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,608
The part about 2 year to DB pension is a problem. Is it possible to transfer or find another position, even a lesser paid one, that still qualifies her for the pension? My impression from your description is that it is just too much value to leave on the table by quitting early.

As for the megacorp, it sounds like you have no such golden handcuffs. My advice would be look elsewhere for a job. So close to FIRE it could be any job. And then get away from your toxic workplace as soon as you have one.

I was in a similar situation once with a company I liked and had spent a few years building excellent relationships with almost everyone. New (horrible) management took over and started pushing 60+ hour weeks with a climate of fear and random layoffs. I decided to tough it out for the sake of the company and people I liked there, in hopes logic and reason would return. Worst decision I ever made. Life at the company continued to degrade, many people including me started showing negative health effects, morale continued to plummet and we were all let go at the next significant economic downturn (about the worst time to be looking for a job). A year later the company was completely out of business, probably because suppliers and partners hated this new management team as much as employees did.

Much as I like the idea of toughing out only a couple years, and that's what I chose to do myself, I have to say it didn't work out well for me. If you do decide to stay put, you should at least start a quiet job search in case things get even worse.
__________________

__________________
growing_older is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 08-13-2013, 09:47 AM   #22
Moderator Emeritus
Bestwifeever's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 16,372
I agree with the stick it out crowd (for both of you). Just slap the biggest grin across your faces the next two years and hunker down. IMHO better than either finding another job that could be as bad or worse and that won't shorten the countdown time, or a part-time job that will just extend the working phase of your lives and often is as much or more of a PITA as a full -time job.
__________________

__________________
“Would you like an adventure now, or would you like to have your tea first?” J.M. Barrie, Peter Pan
Bestwifeever is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2013, 09:55 AM   #23
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 489
I would have the DW stick it out. For you, I would downshift into full "not caring" cruise control mode, start looking full tilt for something new, and let them fire/lay you off if/when they get the courage. I did that years ago before shifting into my own business and ESR, and got a very nice severance package because they knew I could cause them trouble and really wanted me to sign a separation agreement. Obviously every situation is different, though.
__________________
someguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2013, 10:50 AM   #24
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Midpack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 11,963
Eyes on the prize.

“The greater part of our happiness or misery depends upon our dispositions, and not upon our circumstances.” Martha Washington

“Happiness has to do with your mindset, not with outside circumstance.” Steve Maraboli

I'd be happy to elaborate, but this may be more or different than the OP was bargaining for...there is no silver bullet IME.
__________________
No one agrees with other people's opinions; they merely agree with their own opinions -- expressed by somebody else. Sydney Tremayne
Retired Jun 2011 at age 57

Target AA: 60% equity funds / 35% bond funds / 5% cash
Target WR: Approx 2.5% Approx 20% SI (secure income, SS only)
Midpack is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2013, 12:08 PM   #25
Recycles dryer sheets
Tractor guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 105
Been there, done that. The reality for both of you is that finding another satisfying job in your mid 50's may be a real problem. If it was me for you, I'd put on my best poker face when talking to management and meanwhile actively search for another position. Contact headhunters and all of the people who've recently left to find out if there are any openings that might be attractive. Worst case, you'll find out that as bad as it is, its better than anything you can find out there. Best case, you'll find a dream job that you can work in for another 5 years and your wife won't have to stay for manager. Either way, the exercise will let you know what your options are and will provide you with the sense that you are doing something. This will lower your stress level (it did mine).

For her, I'd start cultivating outside hobbies, do the minimum required at work, and do all of the other things that have been recommended to reduce stress. As a friend of mine in a similar situation said, "This job gets a lot easier once you stop caring about it." At the end of the day, if one of the other posters is right and her manager can't fire her before she's eligible for her pension, then the only power he has over her is whatever she's giving him. If she just ignores his craziness, does what she thinks is best, and puts in the 40 hrs/week she owes her employer, what can he do? Its likely that if she doesn't react to him, he'll find some other person to focus on who does give him his desired feedback.
__________________
Tractor guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2013, 12:46 PM   #26
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 534
I'd have the wife grin and bear it. Perhaps she could even emotionally disassociate herself, become a clock watcher, work-to-rule type knowing they can't can her within 24 months. (assuming that's correct). Transfer request might be good as well, or just documenting some of her boss' behavior and taking it to HR, along with her transfer request.

Of course you haven't told us the impact of 2 years on her DB plan, I'm assuming its significant.

If it is significant, you might calculate the effective daily rate she's earning in the next 24 months and maybe that'll help her deal.
__________________
jon-nyc is offline   Reply With Quote
thanks, everyone
Old 08-13-2013, 08:42 PM   #27
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Seattle
Posts: 79
thanks, everyone

I want to thank all of you for your kind, wise words. After long, heartfelt discussions between the two of us, I think we'll try to stick it out. But, we'll reevaluate early next year, as we get a bit closer to our goal. I'm pretty sure the DW can't make it the entire way, however. Me, I think they'll cashier me, no matter what. I'm an old fart in a young man's business; my costs are too high compared to the 30-somethings. I'm 10 years older than my boss and 15 years older than his boss. Hopefully, I can negotiate a small severance plus UI to bridge the final gap, since I know where all of the skeletons are buried around here.

Btw, we are doing a line item by line item review of our expenses to see if we can pare it down a bit. But, we've been pretty frugal and there's not much to cut. At least no "low-hanging" fruit. God, don't you hate those ridiculous statements.

If we can make it another year or so we'll be at 18x+ expenses with about 50% (our total austerity budget) of our FIRE expenses already covered by SS/pensions. I'm thinking that'll be good enough and we'll pull the proverbial ripcord. Though, I hate to leave that defined benefit pension on the table. We will buy a few years of service; 5 or so. It's a great deal, approx. 7% cola'd return. However, I'll trade it for a few extra years of good health with the DW. Thanks again for all of your responses........the last few years have been quite a ride. At least I won't miss the work environment; there certainly won't be any regrets upon leaving the zoo for the last time.................
__________________
jime444 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2013, 09:43 PM   #28
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 5,326
One lesson that is in one of my favorite business books is that you are only as free as your well developed alternatives. If you can't cut your budget or stick it out at the current jobs, then another option is to go back to school evenings and weekends, take a year off to retool, and/or work towards some certification for a job you might enjoy, could do consulting, be self employed or learn a trade you could do part time to make up your retirement shortfall. If it is something you enjoy it won't seem like work.

We have a couple of businesses and I always keep researching back up plans just in case. DH is going to school for something now that will save us having to hire outside expertise, and he could do that as a part time career, with me joining in, if the current businesses stopped making money.
__________________
daylatedollarshort is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2013, 08:17 AM   #29
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 7,526
Sounds like typical workplaces at times. Suck it up, make money as long as it is worth it, and pull the rip cord when you can't stand it any more. You're set up pretty well and will probably land on your feet.
__________________
Retired in 2013 at age 33. Keeping busy reading, blogging, relaxing, gaming, and enjoying the outdoors with my wife and 3 kids (5, 11, and 12).
FUEGO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2013, 08:47 AM   #30
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
JoeWras's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 2,516
Quote:
Originally Posted by jime444 View Post
Me, I think they'll cashier me, no matter what. I'm an old fart in a young man's business; my costs are too high compared to the 30-somethings. I'm 10 years older than my boss and 15 years older than his boss. Hopefully, I can negotiate a small severance plus UI to bridge the final gap, since I know where all of the skeletons are buried around here.
Sorry to hear about your experience, but it is typical.

I want to say you have to learn not to care. You grew in the old culture and care a lot. Forget it. It is over. Learn to not care. I'm talking about the corp, not your employees.

Hell, tell them the truth in whispers. Care for them as much as you can, but make it known your hands are tied.

So what will your bosses do? Fire you? If so, so what. You've almost quit anyway. They'll probably give you a package of some sort anyway.

I'm still at my megacorp after massive culture shifts. Five years ago I created my own personal hell because I cared so much. I learned to let it go. I care about everything else except mega. Does that make my work fun? Or do I have passion? No. But I also don't have pain. Sounds sterile, but it worked for me.
__________________
JoeWras is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2013, 09:23 PM   #31
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Seattle
Posts: 79
Thanks, JoeWRas. My DW had been nagging, I mean telling me, the same thing. And from experience, I know she's much smarter and astute than I've ever been. I'm just too much "old school", actually give a damn if they add inefficiency which will ultimately outsource the business. it's happened to me before, several times, btw.

Great quote (modified just slightly) from Dilbert, that I repeat here (regardless of breaking some copyright laws):

"Middle Management is the Glue that Binds Apathy with Unreasonable Expectations/Vague Objectives.

I guess I need to unstick myself and move towards the apathetic side eh? Thanks again for the comments.
__________________
jime444 is offline   Reply With Quote
Just an update
Old 01-20-2014, 11:54 PM   #32
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Seattle
Posts: 79
Just an update

Well, back at the forum for an update to our situation, thanks to all of you that gave us some different ideas. We tried to hang on, but it was impossible, the damage was already done.
Well, they "cashiered" me after my health got to the point I was almost dysfunctional. I did manage to eek out a 8 week severance package after some veiled threats, since my "replacement" was 20 years my junior. After a few calls around, I got a less stressful job making 20% more money, better benefits, etc. It appears the megaCorp's pay wasn't quite up to market standards, eh? They truly suck.
As for the DW, we're pulling the plug on her employment sooner than later. It's truly affecting her mental state and now being off a bit, it's clear to me she needs a break. Firecalc now has us <1 year for FIRE at 95% success rates. I'll probably work 2-3 years or more, if the job seems to be as good as it does at this moment. It's all starting to smell like roses, once again. Good luck to all of you, thanks for your input.
__________________
jime444 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2014, 12:25 AM   #33
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Katsmeow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,392
Well that is great news about the new job. Glad it worked out for you.
__________________
Katsmeow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2014, 02:46 AM   #34
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
clifp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 7,450
Wow I love the part about getting a 20% pay bump. You do wonder what the young folks were getting. Jobs have honeymoon periods also, and it sound like your in an ideal position to work until the honeymoon is over, but well before the if I don't get a divorce I am kill someone phase sets in.
__________________
clifp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2014, 07:08 AM   #35
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
tryan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,449
I would volunteer for the RIF and layoff (cha-ching, cha-ching)... then signup for your share of the never ending unemployment bennies (cha-ching again). The FIRE "gap" will not be THAT wide ....

Sounds to me like the benefit of getting out outweighs.
__________________
FIRE'd since 2005
tryan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2014, 07:38 AM   #36
Moderator
MichaelB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Rocky Inlets
Posts: 24,408
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katsmeow View Post
Well that is great news about the new job. Glad it worked out for you.
+1

One of you quitting now may reduce some of the stress you both are bringing home, and that way you'll make it to the point where you reach FI.
__________________
MichaelB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2014, 07:59 AM   #37
Moderator Emeritus
Bestwifeever's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 16,372
Quote:
Originally Posted by jime444 View Post
...
Well, they "cashiered" me after my health got to the point I was almost dysfunctional. I did manage to eek out a 8 week severance package after some veiled threats, since my "replacement" was 20 years my junior. After a few calls around, I got a less stressful job making 20% more money, better benefits, etc. It appears the megaCorp's pay wasn't quite up to market standards, eh? They truly suck.
As for the DW, we're pulling the plug on her employment sooner than later. It's truly affecting her mental state and now being off a bit, it's clear to me she needs a break. Firecalc now has us <1 year for FIRE at 95% success rates...
Thank you so much for the update. What a great development for you both.
__________________

__________________
“Would you like an adventure now, or would you like to have your tea first?” J.M. Barrie, Peter Pan
Bestwifeever is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:17 PM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.