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Old 05-23-2012, 08:54 PM   #21
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How does not working make you worth more alive than dead

In my thinking, you are now an expense with no income..... and the pot of money can go a lot farther with one than with two...

SOOO, you have to be bringing more to the table than just 'not working' to be worth more alive than dead.... just saying....
Employment life insurance plus not yet vested stock options. The ratio of "alive vs dead" worth changed pretty substantially the day I quit.

As for your other message, don't think I haven't had that on my mind. We both are expense, and as long as the portfolio does ok I sleep easily because I take the credit. Of course, when the markets are tanking I don't sleep so well ...
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Old 05-23-2012, 09:32 PM   #22
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Employment life insurance plus not yet vested stock options. The ratio of "alive vs dead" worth changed pretty substantially the day I quit.

As for your other message, don't think I haven't had that on my mind. We both are expense, and as long as the portfolio does ok I sleep easily because I take the credit. Of course, when the markets are tanking I don't sleep so well ...
Ahhh... sorry to say that my stock options (and very very small in number... but it really does not matter) are worthless.... the stock price is LESS than it was 10 years ago... but, as mentioned, the number that I got were so few it really does not matter if they tripled... still not much money... a few thousand...

I found out how expensive it can be by getting married a few years back.... man, it was a shock... but since my DW does not know anything about finance, I at least got that whenever I am able to retire...
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Old 05-23-2012, 10:48 PM   #23
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I think the thing that impresses me about companies such as SpaceX is their willingness to take calculated risks while using new methods. The guys who built SpaceShip One are also innovative.
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Old 05-25-2012, 01:02 AM   #24
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Well, I'm still a fan and think Elon is a clever entrepreneur but "visionary" and "monumental" is a stretch for me. The electric car was invented in the early 1900's and we did land men on the moon in 1969. I don't recall people using Mac's, IPods, IPad's, IPhones or Itunes back then.
Well let see he co-created a new payment system for the web.
But that is just how funds his real vision.

He wants to replace all internal combustion vehicles in the country with electric vehicles to help slow climate change.

He wants to establish a self sufficient colony of tens of millions on Mars.

The underlying reason behind both of these endeavors is "enhance the long-term survival of mankind". Mars is really a back up plan in case we screw up the planet.

I think as goal in life, "saving mankind from itself" qualifies as visionary.
It is actually even bigger vision than Gate's foundation of merely wiping out deadly diseases in Africa and other 3rd world countries.

Now for most people this is so delusional that you'd be locked up. Elon is crazy, but I'm pretty sure he is a visionary also.
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Old 05-25-2012, 08:19 AM   #25
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It's about 6:20 AM PDT and NASA TV has some great images of Dragon and the International Space Station in orbit. Great, clear, close images of Dragon with the Earth below it.
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Old 05-25-2012, 04:18 PM   #26
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Another huge milestone for SpaceX, they've docked with the space station! SpaceX Dragon capsule makes historic space station arrival - CBS News
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Old 05-25-2012, 04:58 PM   #27
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Another huge milestone for SpaceX, they've docked with the space station! SpaceX Dragon capsule makes historic space station arrival - CBS News

I love the headline and you've got to give Elon credit for great marketing also. I think we have been docking objects in space for nearly 50 years, since the days of Gemini or maybe even before that by the Russians. But SpaceX gets called historic.
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Old 05-25-2012, 05:44 PM   #28
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I love the headline and you've got to give Elon credit for great marketing also. I think we have been docking objects in space for nearly 50 years, since the days of Gemini or maybe even before that by the Russians. But SpaceX gets called historic.
Since the USA, USSR, China and Elon Musk are the only ones to put an object in orbit and bring it back, I think he's entitled. When an individual matches an accomplishment only three superpower countries have managed in all history (and we've had to abandon our space program) - that's something noteworthy beyond great marketing IMHO...
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Old 05-25-2012, 06:47 PM   #29
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Another huge milestone for SpaceX, they've docked with the space station! SpaceX Dragon capsule makes historic space station arrival - CBS News
Way to go!
I am very happy for the Space X employees and for our country.


Having spent much of my life in US manufacturing and having also done a stint in the Aeorspace field, I have very real questions in my mind about whether or not we will be buying advanced tech military gear /drones etc. from Japan or somewhere else rather than the other way around (us selling our older generation gear to them as is the current practice). I was worried that I might see this in what's left of my lifetime. Today's accomplishment eases that worry.
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Old 05-25-2012, 11:39 PM   #30
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Since the USA, USSR, China and Elon Musk are the only ones to put an object in orbit and bring it back, I think he's entitled. When an individual matches an accomplishment only three superpower countries have managed in all history (and we've had to abandon our space program) - that's something noteworthy beyond great marketing IMHO...

I didn't mean to belittle the remarkable engineering achievement. I meant more in admiring way as in "not only do Elon's companies make great products but he is doing a great job marketing it. " Similar to Jobs at Apple no doubt Apple products were well designed, but Jobs was the best high tech marketing guy. In Elon's case the products are amazing, but the guy is no slouch at getting publicity. We have seen more about space coverage in the last few weeks by the media than we've seen in the last few years, except for the sad news of the end of the shuttle.

Space X also has created a halo effect for Telsa. Last night I came really close to putting $5,000 down for an S coupe. I'm going to hold off until I (hopefully) get a chance to test drive one in July. Part of my justification for spending $50K on car from a start up car company, was well if this guy can design working rocket than an electric car should be easy.
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Old 05-25-2012, 11:50 PM   #31
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What I find interesting is that there are areospace companies that have been building rockets for the military, NASA and private satelite launches for years, but none of them has been able to do what SpaceX just did. Even the supply modules from Europe and Japan, could only bring supplies to the space station. They were unable to bring cargo back to earth in one piece. The Dragon has already proven it can make a round trip and survive.
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Old 05-26-2012, 03:31 PM   #32
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I meant more in admiring way as in "not only do Elon's companies make great products but he is doing a great job marketing it. " Similar to Jobs at Apple no doubt Apple products were well designed, but Jobs was the best high tech marketing guy. In Elon's case the products are amazing, but the guy is no slouch at getting publicity. We have seen more about space coverage in the last few weeks by the media than we've seen in the last few years, except for the sad news of the end of the shuttle.

Space X also has created a halo effect for Telsa. Last night I came really close to putting $5,000 down for an S coupe. I'm going to hold off until I (hopefully) get a chance to test drive one in July. Part of my justification for spending $50K on car from a start up car company, was well if this guy can design working rocket than an electric car should be easy.
Pretty complimentry. I guess Elon is the complete package. Engineering really is not enough. You need the "rain maker" to sell it.
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Old 05-26-2012, 05:02 PM   #33
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I think it is a great idea for NASA to outsource (and subsidize) the routine mission to shuttle supplies (and in the near future Astronauts) to the space station. This free's up resources at NASA to concentrate on bigger projects. Good job!
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Old 05-27-2012, 08:33 PM   #34
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Read an article in todays newspaper about the docking of SpaceX Dragon and the ISS and the subsequest opening of the hatch. The article described what the astronauts observed upon the hatch opening. How impressed they were with the engineering of the spacecraft. How neat and clean it was and that it smelled just like a new car. SpaceX has a lot to be proud of.
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Old 05-27-2012, 08:56 PM   #35
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Well, I'm still a fan and think Elon is a clever entrepreneur but "visionary" and "monumental" is a stretch for me. The electric car was invented in the early 1900's and we did land men on the moon in 1969. I don't recall people using Mac's, IPods, IPad's, IPhones or Itunes back then.
If you want to get technical, at its base the idea of an iPod isn't completely unique to apple either. Putting music in a portable system has been around for quite a while. IPads are essentially just flashy laptops. What apple and Steve Jobs did as a company is monumental on a generational front... but personally I don't see him as a visionary either.

Advancing humanity by creating iPods... or exploring space. Looking back 500 years from now not many people will know who Steve Jobs was, but they'll most certainly know Neil Armstrong... maybe even Elon (if he successfully launches the first company into space, literally).

Those things are truly visionary... IMO, and what will really change humanity.

Now if Apple creates the first true Artificial Intelligence, I'll move them above space travel... probably.
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Old 05-31-2012, 10:28 AM   #36
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Watching the return of the capsule and splashdown in the Pacific live on Nasa TV online.
If it all goes well, the start of a brand new era.
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Old 05-31-2012, 10:41 AM   #37
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amazing... SpaceX has now accomplished what only 4 countries on this planet have done.
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Old 05-31-2012, 11:35 PM   #38
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amazing... SpaceX has now accomplished what only 4 countries on this planet have done.
Perhaps more. Many of those supply ships are destroyed on reentry. That is ok if they are loaded with garbage, but not good if something needs to be returned in one piece. Only the shuttle could return large objects. Now Dragon can.
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Old 06-01-2012, 06:18 AM   #39
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Perhaps more. Many of those supply ships are destroyed on reentry. That is ok if they are loaded with garbage, but not good if something needs to be returned in one piece. Only the shuttle could return large objects. Now Dragon can.
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I guess I am just amazed at what is happening these days even if the Shuttle is no longer in operation. As I write this:

1. The SpaceX Dragon spacecraft is approaching the International Space Station.

2. A Rover are still operating on the surface of Mars.

Truly Amazing.
I watched this with great amazement, and a little bit of pride...for having a very detached relationship with this part of the space program.

Dragon was launched from Space Launch Complex (SLC) 40 at Cape Canaveral. I helped build the previous SLC-40 launch complex which launched the first Mars Observer mission (lost just prior to Mars orbit unfortunately). And now SLC-40 has launched Dragon, beginning a new chapter in the space program.

I'm anxious to see what's next.
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Old 06-01-2012, 07:00 AM   #40
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I guess I am just amazed at what is happening these days even if the Shuttle is no longer in operation. As I write this:

[...]

Truly Amazing.
And yet not a single person has been on the moon in my lifetime. I'm 36.

In a lot of ways, I think the space program (and technology in general) has stagnated, or even regressed, in my generation's time. Sure, we've sent out a few more satellites (I was riveted by Cassini/Huygens), but the space shuttles have been mothballed with no replacement, and we still haven't put a human on Mars.

I think a lot of these types of programs have been completely bogged down in bureaucratic red tape. It blows my mind that they were able to put men on the moon in 1969 (with 1960's technology!), but it took them 5 days to get water to the Superdome after Katrina. It took a decade to replace a pair of skyscrapers in New York (are they done yet?).

When you really think about it, what great technological advancements can we lay claim to in the past 3 decades? I can think of just two game-changers: Cell phones and the Internet (and maybe the drastic scaling-down of computer chips). It's hardly penicillin or footprints on the moon. Still haven't "cured" AIDS or cancer, despite billions of dollars raised in hundreds of thousands of charity runs, book drives, and everything else.

Honestly, it's a little depressing.
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