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Speaking of financial mistakes...
Old 05-14-2007, 11:27 AM   #1
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Speaking of financial mistakes...

...how about Daimler Chrysler?

- Daimler buys Chrysler for $37 Billion in 1998
- The "merger of equals" fails miserably and the new company bleeds money
- Daimler Chrysler sells dumps Chrysler in 2007 for a bargain price of $7.4 Billion. [Edit: Daimler only sold 80% of Chrysler, retaining 20% for future losses opportunities.]

However, it looks as if Daimler is actually going to have to write a check at closing:

"...the German automaker, which will be renamed simply Daimler, will not actually get most of the money that Cerberus is paying for the once proud automaker. Instead Cerberus will contribute $5 billion to the Chrysler auto operations it will now control, with just over another $1 billion going to Chrysler's finance arm.

While Daimler will receive the remaining $1.4 billion of Cerberus' capital contribution to the sale, Daimler expects to have to cover another $1.6 billion in Chrysler losses before the deal closes. So Daimler estimates that it will end up paying out about $650 million to close the deal..."


When I look at my business and personal financial screw ups against this disaster, I've got nothing to be ashamed of.


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Re: Speaking of financial mistakes...
Old 05-14-2007, 12:19 PM   #2
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Re: Speaking of financial mistakes...

Quote:
Originally Posted by REWahoo!
When I look at my business and personal financial screw ups against this disaster, I've got nothing to be ashamed of.
You may be able to lose a little on a transaction, but it takes a true Megacorpse to really make it up on volume.

I can't believe how many careers & jobs were savaged by the last decade's "synergy" experiments. An American autoworkers union triumphing over German management-- that really was the irresistible force hitting the immovable object!

I'm intrigued by the thought that Cerberus now owns 51% of GMAC and 80% of Chrysler. I see another huge round of cheap vehicle financing heading our way...
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Re: Speaking of financial mistakes...
Old 05-14-2007, 12:21 PM   #3
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Re: Speaking of financial mistakes...

Cheap vehicle, or cheap financing... :P
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Re: Speaking of financial mistakes...
Old 05-14-2007, 02:38 PM   #4
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Re: Speaking of financial mistakes...

I bet Daimler thinks they got off easy.

What vehicle in the Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep lineup gets you all hot and bothered? Exactly.

A running car is necessary for many in the U.S. of A., but everyone knows you can keep the same car running for decades. So what drives a person to a showroom and to begin rationalizing taking on a new payment? Passion, they fall in love with a car.

Nobody is falling in love with a Sebring. Some gangster elements got into the 300, but that's fading fast, too. With gas prices up major $$$, the one strong suit, trucks and suv's, is taking a beating with U.S. automakers.

No amount of lobbying is going to turn around a company that sells vehicles people don't want that cost an extra $5k to build due to retired union worker health costs etc. There is no magic to it, the Japanese don't have a secret formula, they just have an extra $5k in production costs to play with and still be competitive.
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Re: Speaking of financial mistakes...
Old 05-14-2007, 03:55 PM   #5
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Re: Speaking of financial mistakes...

Quote:
Originally Posted by HFWR
Cheap vehicle, or cheap financing... :P
Heh, maybe both?
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Re: Speaking of financial mistakes...
Old 05-14-2007, 05:38 PM   #6
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Re: Speaking of financial mistakes...

That'll teach those foreigners...

The Japanese bought our real estate at the top of the 80's bubble. They wanted some trophy properties. They took a beating!

Now a Europeans thinks they are going to own/fix one of our troubled car companies and it sucked the life out of em.... Heck, they probably just got saddled with a bunch of pension obligations.

Who else in the world wants to own some prime US trophy investments. I wonder what investments the Chinese are eyeballing... How about some nice office buildings in Manhattan

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Re: Speaking of financial mistakes...
Old 05-14-2007, 08:33 PM   #7
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Re: Speaking of financial mistakes...

We have a Dodge Grand Caravan. Great for our trips but doesn't impress the chicks, which the DW appreciates.
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Re: Speaking of financial mistakes...
Old 05-14-2007, 09:57 PM   #8
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Re: Speaking of financial mistakes...

Quote:
Originally Posted by chinaco
Now a Europeans thinks they are going to own/fix one of our troubled car companies and it sucked the life out of em.... Heck, they probably just got saddled with a bunch of pension obligations.
As far as I can tell the pension obligations stay with Chrysler, but Daimler's having to pony up the funding to keep them covered.

Just what the UAW would want-- a German car company responsible for orphaned American pensions...
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Re: Speaking of financial mistakes...
Old 05-15-2007, 09:46 AM   #9
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Re: Speaking of financial mistakes...

I wonder if there are any ongoing synergies in platform sharing. I know some of the "new" Chrysler models are using old Mercedes stuff. It would never justify the cost difference, of course. A $37.5 billion lesson indeed. German arrogance meets Detroit intransigence.
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Re: Speaking of financial mistakes...
Old 05-15-2007, 11:29 AM   #10
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Re: Speaking of financial mistakes...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nords

Just what the UAW would want-- a German car company responsible for orphaned American pensions...
Hey, if the UAW had to pick one country that was all for running their economy into the ground in order to pay totally unrealistic pension obligations Germany would be a top pick!

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Re: Speaking of financial mistakes...
Old 05-15-2007, 12:04 PM   #11
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Re: Speaking of financial mistakes...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Laurence
What vehicle in the Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep lineup gets you all hot and bothered? Exactly.
Viper. Crossfire.

And the PT Cruiser has been very popular for several years.
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Re: Speaking of financial mistakes...
Old 05-15-2007, 12:06 PM   #12
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Re: Speaking of financial mistakes...

Quote:
Originally Posted by saluki9
Hey, if the UAW had to pick one country that was all for running their economy into the ground in order to pay totally unrealistic pension obligations Germany would be a top pick!

Pretty much any European country would be
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Re: Speaking of financial mistakes...
Old 05-15-2007, 12:38 PM   #13
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Re: Speaking of financial mistakes...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Laurence
...What vehicle in the Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep lineup gets you all hot and bothered? Exactly.
...
So what drives a person to a showroom and to begin rationalizing taking on a new payment? Passion, they fall in love with a car...
I'm a die-hard GM man, but Chrysler has had some of the best vehicle designs of the last 5 years or more.

I would hardly say the Camry or Accord inspire passion... but their quality speaks for itself.

The big three are making some very solid cars, but are fighting an uphill battle of consumer perception and staggering legacy costs.
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Re: Speaking of financial mistakes...
Old 05-15-2007, 01:27 PM   #14
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Re: Speaking of financial mistakes...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick
Viper. Crossfire.

And the PT Cruiser has been very popular for several years.
Viper - Fun car but tiring to drive. We have one in the family and I've spent a fair amount of time in it both on the street and on the track. The construction quality is poor at best and the interior makes a vette look like a Bently

Crossfire - 1990's benz rebadged, American built, and slapped with the most awful ugly ass body they could find. It gets people so hot and bothered that they have to give incentives equal to 15% or more of the cars MSRP to get rid of them

PT Cruiser - You get hot and bothered by the PT Cruiser?
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Re: Speaking of financial mistakes...
Old 05-15-2007, 02:29 PM   #15
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Re: Speaking of financial mistakes...

Quote:
Originally Posted by bow-tie
I'm a die-hard GM man, but Chrysler has had some of the best vehicle designs of the last 5 years or more.

I would hardly say the Camry or Accord inspire passion... but their quality speaks for itself.

The big three are making some very solid cars, but are fighting an uphill battle of consumer perception and staggering legacy costs.
So my phrasing was poor, but you hit it on the head, the american branding is just not there. When talking in the coffee room, and cars come up, a person can say "I have a Camry" and everyone will nod their head as if to say, "smart guy, very sensible, good job" - so that's not hot and bothered, but if you said any american car, people will turn their head and inquire "why?". The branding is so strong for Honda/Toyota, it will take a ton of work to turn it around for american car makers, and I don't know if they have enough time.

People trust American trucks, but if gas hits $4, that may be the nail in the coffin.
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Re: Speaking of financial mistakes...
Old 05-15-2007, 02:52 PM   #16
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Re: Speaking of financial mistakes...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Laurence
So my phrasing was poor, but you hit it on the head, the american branding is just not there. When talking in the coffee room, and cars come up, a person can say "I have a Camry" and everyone will nod their head as if to say, "smart guy, very sensible, good job" - so that's not hot and bothered, but if you said any american car, people will turn their head and inquire "why?". The branding is so strong for Honda/Toyota, it will take a ton of work to turn it around for american car makers, and I don't know if they have enough time.
On that line, one of my ex-coworkers went out, splurged, and bought a Saab. I thought there was going to be a knock down drag out fight, when I told him it was nothing but an over priced GM when he started bragging about it. Fortunately one of our GM fans was standing there and assured him it wasn't an over priced GM....it was a fairly priced GM.
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Re: Speaking of financial mistakes...
Old 05-15-2007, 02:56 PM   #17
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Re: Speaking of financial mistakes...

I mean, the Mustang is still cool, but it's a specialty car. When I daydream about taking care of DW I imagine her in an E-Class, not a Cadillac.

( I tell DW I wish I could give her big diamonds and fancy cars and a house overlooking the ocean - she points out that she doesn't care about those things and she does get to stay home - I'll keep her).
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Re: Speaking of financial mistakes...
Old 05-15-2007, 09:09 PM   #18
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Re: Speaking of financial mistakes...

Quote:
Viper - Fun car but tiring to drive. We have one in the family and I've spent a fair amount of time in it both on the street and on the track. The construction quality is poor at best and the interior makes a vette look like a Bently
Maybe, but it goes like stink! Like the old Cobra. Carrol Shelby was the Viper's godfather, I read. Ol' Shel rocks. First lotto check buys me one (after I pay off the house).

Quote:
Crossfire - 1990's benz rebadged, American built, and slapped with the most awful ugly ass body they could find. It gets people so hot and bothered that they have to give incentives equal to 15% or more of the cars MSRP to get rid of them
I kinda like the way it looks. Don't know what is under the skin, though.

Quote:
PT Cruiser - You get hot and bothered by the PT Cruiser? Huh
Here, we agree.
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Re: Speaking of financial mistakes...
Old 05-15-2007, 09:13 PM   #19
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Re: Speaking of financial mistakes...

Quote:
Originally Posted by saluki9
PT Cruiser - You get hot and bothered by the PT Cruiser?
I don't, but apparently millions of other people have.
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Re: Speaking of financial mistakes...
Old 05-15-2007, 09:26 PM   #20
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Re: Speaking of financial mistakes...

Quote:
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I don't, but apparently millions of other people have.
Maybe a few people got hot and bothered. However I doubt many Vette or Boxster sales were scrapped in favor of the PT
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