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Spooky stuff
Old 10-12-2006, 06:39 AM   #1
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Spooky stuff

This author (http://www.truthdig.com/report/print...ar_apocalypse/) is obviously a bit overwrought, but I find it more than a little bit alarming that we have sent a carrier group to the Straits of Hormuz all of a sudden. Why would we do this?
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Re: Spooky stuff
Old 10-12-2006, 07:35 AM   #2
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Re: Spooky stuff

Quote:
Originally Posted by brewer12345
This author (http://www.truthdig.com/report/print...ar_apocalypse/) is obviously a bit overwrought, but I find it more than a little bit alarming that we have sent a carrier group to the Straits of Hormuz all of a sudden. Why would we do this?
Because we can?

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Re: Spooky stuff
Old 10-12-2006, 08:09 AM   #3
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Re: Spooky stuff

I believe there is already a carrier task force in the region and this is its replacement.
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Re: Spooky stuff
Old 10-12-2006, 11:12 AM   #4
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Re: Spooky stuff

Quote:
Originally Posted by brewer12345
This author (http://www.truthdig.com/report/print...ar_apocalypse/) is obviously a bit overwrought, but I find it more than a little bit alarming that we have sent a carrier group to the Straits of Hormuz all of a sudden. Why would we do this?
brewer, you're too logical to get caught up in all this conspiracy theory..............I'm surprised at you.................

Here's a news flash: DON'T BELIEVE everything you read on the Internet............
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Re: Spooky stuff
Old 10-12-2006, 11:17 AM   #5
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Re: Spooky stuff

Quote:
Originally Posted by FinanceDude
Here's a news flash: DON'T BELIEVE everything you read on the Internet............
Really? Wow! I wish you would have mentioned this sooner.
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Re: Spooky stuff
Old 10-12-2006, 11:24 AM   #6
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Re: Spooky stuff

Quote:
Originally Posted by brewer12345
This author is obviously a bit overwrought, but I find it more than a little bit alarming that we have sent a carrier group to the Straits of Hormuz all of a sudden. Why would we do this?
A bit overwrought, way too hypercaffeinated, and behind deadline!

Ol' Chris needs a Navy Times subscription. We've had at least one carrier battlegroup within ordnance range of those targets for over 98% of the last 16 years. (The rest of the time the carrier has been in transit or its place has been taken by an amphib and a couple AEGIS cruisers.) No one in the U.S. military wants to take on Iran while we're "otherwise occupied" and watching DPRK indicators popping like gophers. Iran's geography is a lot nastier than Iraq's and the Iranian army has too much opportunity to cause trouble if we're on their home field.

I'm not sure what's to be gained by attacking that country and upsetting what little stability is left in the region, anyway.
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Re: Spooky stuff
Old 10-12-2006, 11:27 AM   #7
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Re: Spooky stuff

Quote:
Originally Posted by FinanceDude
brewer, you're too logical to get caught up in all this conspiracy theory..............I'm surprised at you.................

Here's a news flash: DON'T BELIEVE everything you read on the Internet............
You'll note that my comments included a statement taht I thought the referenced author was overboard.

Dunno about you, but it was VERY obvious to me that we were going to be attacking Iraq long before the mess actually happened. All those quiet press reports indicating that Carrier groups, etc. were casting off several weeks before the invasion were a bit of a give-away. I don't tend toward the tinfoil hat brigade, but I also wouldn't put it past the fascists in the White House to stop at nothing to extend/prolong their power.
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Re: Spooky stuff
Old 10-12-2006, 11:37 AM   #8
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Re: Spooky stuff

Quote:
Originally Posted by brewer12345
I don't tend toward the tinfoil hat brigade, but I also wouldn't put it past the fascists in the White House to stop at nothing to extend/prolong their power.
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Re: Spooky stuff
Old 10-12-2006, 11:54 AM   #9
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Re: Spooky stuff

The oil markets sure aren't acting like it's anything to be concerned about.
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Re: Spooky stuff
Old 10-13-2006, 08:00 AM   #10
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Re: Spooky stuff

Quote:
Originally Posted by brewer12345
You'll note that my comments included a statement taht I thought the referenced author was overboard…I don't tend toward the tinfoil hat brigade...
I don’t think you wear an aluminum beanie, but when I read Hedge’s article my first thought was that the man must order Reynolds Wrap by the pallet-load. But then I realized who this guy is.

Hedges has written extensively about war in general and has covered a number of wars as a reporter. I read his book on war and found it well researched but some of his opinions and conclusions didn’t make sense to me. So I read up on Hedges and found that he has some clear-cut biases that have slipped into his writing in the past. He was once referred to as “numbingly biased”.

We all have opinions and biases, and that’s okay for Hedges when he’s writing a book or an editorial. But he has, in the past, allowed his bias to color his reporting. In fact, he has been accused on a couple of occasions of making up events that could not be corroborated or have been actually proven to be incorrect. I know of at least one correction that the New York Times had to print because Hedges was proven wrong.

Hedges is smart enough and experienced enough on the subject to have known what a lot of other people know. That the Eisenhower group moving to the Middle East is the normal replacement of naval assets that have been rotating through assignments there for years and years. It’s clearly just a case of Hedges attempting to mischaracterize facts order to sway opinion.

When Jeff Birnbaum was the Washington Bureau Chief for Time or Fortune he talked about Hedges’ biases slipping into his reporting:

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The New York Times is one of the great newspapers in America. I spent many years competing against it....And there's a problem allowing someone like Chris Hedges, who has the views, I think you well-described them, to allow him to continue to write news stories is a very bad mistake. That's a misjudgment if they allow him to do that. He should not be allowed anywhere near a war to cover it for the news pages. If he wants to write editorials, that's perfectly fine, but not otherwise. There should be an important distinction and a paper as good as the New York Times should make that distinction.
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Re: Spooky stuff
Old 10-13-2006, 11:14 AM   #11
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Re: Spooky stuff

We used to call these actions gunboat diplomacy. I believe Nords is correct this is business as usual in the Persian Gulf.
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Re: Spooky stuff
Old 10-13-2006, 11:25 AM   #12
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Re: Spooky stuff

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2soon2tell
We used to call these actions gunboat diplomacy. I believe Nords is correct this is business as usual in the Persian Gulf.
We're "showing the flag"!

Here's the press release:
http://www.military.com/features/0,1...ESRC=navy-a.nl
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US Naval exercise in Persian Gulf?
Old 10-13-2006, 01:37 PM   #13
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US Naval exercise in Persian Gulf?

(I don't know how my post ended up on this thread. But, whatever.)

There are reports that the Iranians are taking this very seriously. I can't imagine that the Bush administration would launch an attack. They wouldn't do that, would they? Gunboat diplomacy indeed. I just hope the Iranians don't get the wrong idea.

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Re: US Naval exercise in Persian Gulf?
Old 10-13-2006, 02:15 PM   #14
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Re: US Naval exercise in Persian Gulf?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldbabe
There are reports that the Iranians are taking this very seriously. I can't imagine that the Bush administration would launch an attack. They wouldn't do that, would they? Gunboat diplomacy indeed. I just hope the Iranians don't get the wrong idea.
The battlegroup commander should be smart enough to invite all the Iranian flag officers, with their cell-phone cameras & other spy gear, onboard to watch the exercise. They can serve halal food and even break out the good stuff from the flag mess' liquor locker.

It's the same thing PACOM did with the Chinese during an exercise off Guam a few months back. As long as you're going to the trouble & expense of throwing a party, you might as well invite the neighbors. It'll keep the complaints down, maybe make a friend or two, and impress the heck out of them.
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Re: Spooky stuff
Old 10-13-2006, 02:33 PM   #15
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Re: Spooky stuff

Another perspective, albeit from "The Nation." http://www.thenation.com/doc/20061009/lindorff

Quote from Colonel Gardiner, who taught at Naval War College, regarding PTDO (prepare to deploy orders): "You cannot issue a PTDO and then stay ready for very long. It's a very significant order, and it's not done as a training exercise."

"I think the plan's been picked: bomb the nuclear sites in Iran," says Gardiner. "It's a terrible idea, it's against US law and it's against international law, but I think they've decided to do it."

Also, if you want to read Col. Gardiner's complete analysis the link is here: http://www.tcf.org/list.asp?type=PB&pubid=578
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Re: Spooky stuff
Old 10-13-2006, 03:33 PM   #16
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Re: Spooky stuff

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldbabe
Another perspective, albeit from "The Nation." http://www.thenation.com/doc/20061009/lindorff

Quote from Colonel Gardiner, who taught at Naval War College, regarding PTDO (prepare to deploy orders): "You cannot issue a PTDO and then stay ready for very long. It's a very significant order, and it's not done as a training exercise."

"I think the plan's been picked: bomb the nuclear sites in Iran," says Gardiner. "It's a terrible idea, it's against US law and it's against international law, but I think they've decided to do it."
Well, it would certainly "send a message" although I will leave to you good
folks to decide just what that message might be.

JG
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Re: Spooky stuff
Old 10-13-2006, 04:08 PM   #17
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Re: Spooky stuff

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldbabe
Quote from Colonel Gardiner, who taught at Naval War College, regarding PTDO (prepare to deploy orders): "You cannot issue a PTDO and then stay ready for very long. It's a very significant order, and it's not done as a training exercise."
"I think the plan's been picked: bomb the nuclear sites in Iran," says Gardiner. "It's a terrible idea, it's against US law and it's against international law, but I think they've decided to do it."
While Gardiner may not have ever been on a naval deployment, I think he's right about a contingency plan to bomb Iranian nuclear sites. In fact that plan has probably been on the books for 20 years.

But this is one that I'd want to contract out to the Israelis...

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And on a different military phobia topic, here's an excerpt from my weekly Military Officers Association of America newsletter:

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Army Defies Odds in Meeting Recruiting Goal

The recruiting goal the Army set for FY2006 looked daunting as the year began.

After falling 6,000 short of its 74,000 goal for FY2005, the Army raised the bar to 80,000 for FY2006. They began the fiscal year last Oct. 1 with only 12% of that goal "banked" in the delayed enlistment program, compared to 25% a year earlier. Further, Congress didn't enact needed new bonus incentives until January, more than three months into the fiscal year. So many - including MOAA - had doubts whether the new goal was attainable.

But the Army met the challenge by adding over 1,300 recruiters since 2005 and expanding various criteria to widen the prospect pool. So we congratulate the Army and the other services, all of whom met or exceeded their active duty recruiting goals.

Nevertheless, other numbers offer reasons for legitimate concerns for FY2007 and beyond.

First, only two of the six Reserve components met their goals. The Navy Reserve missed the mark by the largest margin, enlisting 87% of its goal. The Army Reserve enlisted 95% of goal (still, an improvement over last year's 92%). The Army National Guard narrowly missed with 99% -- still a big upgrade from 80% last year.

Second, the Army had to pull out virtually all available stops to get the job done.

Recruit Quality: Defense Department quality standards are that 90% of entrants should have a high school diploma, and 60% should score above average on armed forces aptitude tests. This year, only 82% of Army recruits had diplomas, and 61% met the aptitude test standard - down from 92% and 72%, respectively, since 2004.

Enlistment Standards Adjustments: The Army raised its maximum enlistment age first from 35 to 40 in January 2006, then to 42 in June 2006 and increased waivers for previous restrictions on tattoos, legal infractions, etc.

Increased Bonus Budgets: Enlistment bonus costs jumped from $166M in 2005 to $238M in 2006. Reenlistment bonus expenditures for FY2006 may exceed $650M - vs. an average of $120M for FY2000-2004. If reenlistments drop among overstressed servicemembers and their families, recruiting goals will have to get even bigger.
So while it's good news that the Army met its recruiting goal, the not-so-good news is that service leaders had to stretch every available tool to do so. And some trends - particularly on recruit quality - pose significant concerns for the future.

To further examine the future of the All-Volunteer Force, MOAA is hosting a Military Professionals Symposium on Thursday, November 16, 2006 from 1-3 p.m. at the Doubletree Hotel in Arlington, Virginia. In cooperation with the National Defense University Foundation, experts from the administration, Congress, the Pentagon, National Defense University and the national media will discuss whether the country can sustain the All-Volunteer Force in an extended conflict.

For more information or to register online for this free event please visit MOAA's Web site.
[Edited to add the MOAA excerpt]
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Re: Spooky stuff
Old 10-13-2006, 10:55 PM   #18
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Re: Spooky stuff

Quote:
Originally Posted by brewer12345
This author (http://www.truthdig.com/report/print...ar_apocalypse/) is obviously a bit overwrought, but I find it more than a little bit alarming that we have sent a carrier group to the Straits of Hormuz all of a sudden. Why would we do this?
Lots of talk about The Straits of Hormuz.
How about the gays of Hormuz? Don't they deserve some attention too?

JG
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Re: Spooky stuff
Old 10-14-2006, 05:35 AM   #19
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Re: Spooky stuff

Can you imagine starting Basic Training at 42 years old? I guess this could be a money-saver for Uncle Sam--the guy/gal draws a pension for 20 fewer years and the retiree will be eligible for Medicare 3 years or less after retiring.

Still, lowering the bar in all these areas is going to haunt the Army long after the present situation ends.
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Re: Spooky stuff
Old 10-14-2006, 08:32 AM   #20
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Re: Spooky stuff

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Originally Posted by samclem
Can you imagine starting Basic Training at 42 years old? I guess this could be a money-saver for Uncle Sam--the guy/gal draws a pension for 20 fewer years and the retiree will be eligible for Medicare 3 years or less after retiring.

Still, lowering the bar in all these areas is going to haunt the Army long after the present situation ends.
I did it twice before 21 (Parris Island and a police academy run by former Marines) and swore off all forms of basic training after that. But, there are folks doing it in their 40's and doing well.

Quote:
Margie Black had wanted to enter the military as a teenager, but having her first child at 19 put off her ambitions. So when she learned the Army raised its enlistment age, Black, now a 41-year-old grandmother from West Columbia, Texas, didn't hesitate to join. The decision took "about 30 seconds," she said. "It has always been a dream of mine to be in the military and now I am fulfilling that dream," Black said.
A few older soldiers won't hurt the army - but I would worry about the effects of lowered educational standards. Today's military is much better trained, lead and motivated than what we had after Vietnam that they can probably expand the recruiting pool without too much harm - provided that they are rigorous in eliminating anyone who doesn't measure up to standards in training, performance and discipline. In those areas there should be no lowerng of standards.

Maybe Nords can comment on this aspect: The Eisenhower is relieving the Enterprise, which has been deployed since May and is due back home in November. Enterprise has been working its butt off, supporting missions in both Iraq and Afghanistan and has been without a port call for more than 150 days. The aircraft flying missions into Afghanistan have to fly as much as 1,000 miles per mission - sometimes requiring three refuelings to stay aloft. Pilots are reporting flying as much as 100 hours per month. All of that has to take a toll. Is it possible that the Eisenhower deployment was moved up a few weeks to the Enterprise people could get their relief a little early in light of what they've been doing for almost six months?
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