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Old 02-22-2008, 02:17 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by free4now View Post
Like all audiophile debates, this is probably getting out of hand but I can't resist continuing

Mathjak, while you are technically correct that some amplifiers are capable of supplying more current than others with the same rating, in actual practice it's of little consequence. The custom built speakers I am listening to right now are biamped, meaning I have separate amplifiers for the tweeters and the woofers, partially because the simpler loads don't exhibit the problem you describe with the inductive loads of crossovers causing some power to be wasted. I know where you are coming from.

But after studying this stuff a while I realized that this effect can't suck more than about 5-15% or so out of the amplifier power, nowhere near the 20W vs 300W that your example implies. In fact there could very well be instants when the inductive load "pushes" back more current than the amplifier can supply, giving you a negative current flow between the crossover and amp when you wanted positive 10A. But we are saved by the fact that audio is an AC waveform and inductive loads can only push back what they have stored from the amplifier power itself. The effect you described can only happen at one part of the waveform, not over the whole waveform.

And so called "high current" amplifiers are really just normal amplifiers that are underrated and whose voltage-producing abilities may be crippled. They are designed that way because rich audiophiles believe that they are better, not because they actually drive normal speaker better.

The one exception is extremely low impedance loads like say a 1 ohm subwoofer driver, but I think it's safe to say that the OP isn't planning anything exotic like that.

actually i measured on a pioneer sx1980 which was rated for 270 watts into a pair of quad esl63 speakers a 4 volt output at certain frequencies before it shut itself down to protect itself. that was barely a dribble of its rated power. even a pair of tiny rogers ls3/5a were enough of a bad load to have the output of the amp fall off drastically.

on the other hand a hafler dh200 and apt 1 was totaly unscathed by both loads. a krell can deliver full power into even less than an ohm.

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Old 02-22-2008, 05:42 AM   #42
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Go with the HK. I have one and LOVE it

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Old 02-22-2008, 05:50 AM   #43
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Boy..... this thread has gotten WAY off from the OP...

Just buy the one that is 'on sale'... at the low/mid level, there is not much difference in the box with the 'good' names...
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Old 02-22-2008, 07:46 AM   #44
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Did you see this?

Shop Onkyo

The tx 8522 is just $199 refurbished, comes with a 1 year warranty. You can extend that to 3 years total for an extra $40.

They also have an 8222 for $149 refurbished, and a 5.1AV receiver for $109.

You have to sign up for their club (free) to get some of these prices.

That 8222 at that price looks like a pretty good performer if you're just listening to music...
Be fearful when others are greedy, and greedy when others are fearful. Just another form of "buy low, sell high" for those who have trouble with things. This rule is not universal. Do not buy a 1973 Pinto because everyone else is afraid of it.
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Old 02-22-2008, 01:04 PM   #45
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a little trivia, harmen karden was actually one of the first mass mid-fi companies to actually higher top notch well known audio designers to help them turn out better quality receivers. i believe stu hegaman was one of their designers. can't speak for the company now as i pretty much think all the mid-fi companies are all alike.

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