Stop Tipping

[CardsFan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Milton Option 1: When in Rome, do what the Romans do. Option 2: If you prefer to always do things your way, don't be surprised (or complain) when visitors from other countries do things the way they are used to.

I follow option 1. The local custom. Since I used to travel quite a bit for business, and usually had local hosts, I learned the local norms. BUT, when dining alone, I noticed the expectation that the dumb American would leave a tip. In the large European cities (Brussels, Paris, eg.) there was usually a tip line on the credit card slip. If they don't expect a tip, why is that?

[Bestwifeever]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chuckanut You can tell the more sophisticated travelers. They are the ones who blend into the customs of where they are at the moment. The unsophisticated traveler complains about slow service, their pizza (or other food) is not the same as the one they get from their local fast food joint at home, refuses to try the house specialty (beef tartare, duck gizzards with fennel sauce), and then overtips. The sophisticated traveler realizes these guys are pros, enjoys the new tastes sensations (snails, beef tongue, goose necks, and pastries that are not sugared to death) and rounds up.

The wait staff certainly didn’t turn down the American-style gratuity when that party (who consider themselves more sophisticated) prevailed . The other round-it-up party had actually lived in Europe for several years.

DH and I have travelled a lot but it never bothers me to be considered as a more or less sophisticated traveler or as a tourist. I think it’s always pretty obvious when people are from other countries.

[Milton]

Quote:

Originally Posted by CardsFan I noticed the expectation that the dumb American would leave a tip.

I suppose that's the the flip side of some American restaurants automatically adding a fixed percentage to non-American's bills. Both practices are obnoxious, presumptuous, and in IMO should result in a tip of zero.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CardsFan In the large European cities (Brussels, Paris, eg.) there was usually a tip line on the credit card slip. If they don't expect a tip, why is that?

Two probable reasons excuses. Either they cater to a large number of (i) American tourists, or (ii) expense account diners. Neither excuse is acceptable.

[Milton]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bestwifeever The wait staff certainly didn’t turn down the American-style gratuity.

That rationalization is often employed by Americans who over-tip abroad.

The acceptance is unsurprising, really: few people turn down 'free money', especially when it comes from a foreigner who is perceived to have more money than brains.

[Bestwifeever]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Milton That rationalization is often employed by Americans who over-tip abroad. The acceptance is unsurprising, really: few people turn down 'free money', especially when it comes from a foreigner who is perceived to have more money than brains.

Other waiters in another European country laughed and refused even a rounding up level so not sure why you’re generalizing, but okay.

[jimandthom]

We have 1/2 dozen or so local eateries that we walk to and at times feel like Norm on "Cheers."

This is an economically depressed area, where the mediam income is about 50% lower than the rest of the state. If you don't work in a government function, you are in the tourist or retail industry.

We tip well-- more than really is necessary. The couple extra bucks for us is not a big deal. Its an easy way to help out a bit for someone who is working and at least making an effort.

As long as the service/food is up to standards we don't mind. We also tell them when something is not quite up to snuff.

[Milton]

Difficult to keep up with your posts when first you say one thing (“wait staff certainly didn’t turn down the American-style gratuity”) and then contradict yourself (“other waiters ... laughed and refused even a rounding-up”).

Guess you are too sophisticated for a simple fellow like me!

[Bestwifeever]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Milton Difficult to keep up with your posts when first you say one thing (“wait staff certainly didn’t turn down the American-style gratuity”) and then contradict yourself (“other waiters ... laughed and refused even a rounding-up”). Guess you are too sophisticated for a simple fellow like me!

Reading can be hard.

[Milton]

Matthew 12:37.

[HFWR]

I look at tipping much like I do negotiating a car purchase. Just tell me the frickin’ price already... But, it’s the way the game is currently played, and the possible repercussions of me stopping tipping - crap service, evil eye from SO and/or other fellow diners, the “loogie special”... Just seems like more trouble than it’s worth.

[youbet]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Milton Many Americans are seemingly upset by non-Americans in the USA who either don't tip, or tip less than whatever arbitrary percentage (currently 25%?) is in vogue there. Yet those same people often insist on tipping/overtipping in Europe, Australia, Canada, etc., because "that's just what I'm used toextra amount that we demand, or we will poison!

That cuts both ways of course.

[Scrapr]

thought about this thread tonight. A group of 6 of us went to a larger Brew pub for dinner before we walked next door for improv theatre. Waitress split out our bills nicely. As expected mandatory 20% tip for parties of 6+. So we get our receipts to sign and they have split everything out perfectly including the mandatory tip. Right below the Total line? Tip space and below that a Total.

I wonder how many people double tip

[Teacher Terry]

I was telling my husband about this thread last night while we were eating out. He grew up in a single parent household and his mom was a dealer in a casino making minimum wage. They depended on those tips and he is a good tipper unless the service is horrible.

[Chuckanut]

My Area:
Tipped jobs = non tipped jobs minimum wage
$11+ an hour.

Note: I live in an area where tipped employees make the same minimum wage as non-tipped employees. I think that makes a difference in how we look at tipping and perhaps we should each mention it at the start. If the guy who hands me the muffin over the counter was making $7 an hour, I would feel better about the tip jar. The screen? Forget-About-It.

Overall, employers should pay their people a descent wage and leave the customer's out of it.

[ERD50]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teacher Terry I was telling my husband about this thread last night while we were eating out. He grew up in a single parent household and his mom was a dealer in a casino making minimum wage. They depended on those tips and he is a good tipper unless the service is horrible.

Please realize that most of the posters here who are saying they are opposed to the system of tipping are not suggesting the worker should be harmed in any way by eliminating the system of tipping. What we are saying is it is the business's business to set the pay for their employees.

The business should just charge us what is needed for them to support their business. They obviously need to pay whatever is required to get the kind of employees they need, like any other business. Leave us out of it!

And please don't assume that everyone expressing a dislike for the tipping system is a lousy or zero tipper. I will continue to tip well while the system is in place. But I'd like to see the system dismantled.

OP does is saying to stop tipping, but remember that he is Canadian, and his video says that servers there make a minimum wage of $11/hour, which is different from the US. And it also claims there is significant (Canadian) tax cheating going on with the tips they get.

-ERD50

[68bucks]

I'm a 20% tipper or better. If I have a meal like breakfast that ends up with a $10 bill I'll at least leave a $5 bill. I'm doing all right and the majority of people waiting tables need it worse than me. If you tip well at a place you frequent you get better service, more attention. It's a nice perk sometimes. Now if the service is poor I will cut the tip a bit. I don't tip on how the food was though the servers don't cook it. Bring me cold food though and you will probably get a smaller tip.

[ERD50]

Quote:

Originally Posted by youbet Quote: Quote: Originally Posted by ERD50 Because I know I'm not going to change the system by myself, one non-tip at a time. That one is hard to understand. Do you also fall in line with other marketing ploys such as a car dealer trying to sell you useless after-market add-ons? Or an appliance dealer trying to charge you for delivery when the competition doesn't? Etc.? The absolute only way for consumers to deliver the message for what demand is, is to vote with their dollars one consumer at a time. It's not unlike voting in a political election. We each do it one voter at a time (with exceptions in Illinois of course!)

In what way is this hard to understand?

I'm realistic, I know I'm not going to change the system one no-tip at a time, and since the system is in place, I'm going to follow along.

I don't agree with the system of many of the Federal tax deductions we were allowed to take, but I take them, because I know I'm not going to change that system myself either, other than through , maybe, my vote. We play the hand we are dealt.

But this is a discussion forum, so I am sharing my view on the subject. That's different than expecting I can change it. At any rate, I think discussion is likely to have a greater (though still tiny) effect than me stopping to tip.

I don't follow your other examples. I don't buy the useless add-ons from a car dealer, but in no way do I expect that to change their behavior. But since I don't buy them, I don't pay for them either. There is no expectation there. And I haven't found a new car dealer that doesn't, so I don't really have a choice. We play the hand we are dealt. I think someone else mentioned, that's like telling me I shouldn't go to a restaurant that offers me dessert if I don't want it - just say 'no' if I don't want it, there is no expectation for me to pay for it.

But there is an expectation that a server gets a tip, it's built into the system, and built into the pricing of meals (they would be higher if tips were banned), so I go with it. Just because I dislike a system, and express that dislike, doesn't mean I'm on a mission from god to fight it. I haven't started a blog and a 501(c)(3) named "Ban the tip!".

-ERD50

[W2R]

Yesterday I got my hair cut at Supercuts. It was absolutely pouring rain, and the whole time I was there they didn't have even one other customer. The stylist said it had been that way all day. Since there was nobody waiting, she took her time and did a superb job with my hair so I am pretty pleased.

Instead of my usual 15% tip consistent with being the Scrooge-like cheap penny-pinching unsympathetic tightwad that I am, I impulsively gave her a 44% tip. It's the Christmas season, after all. I think that today at lunch I will leave a higher tip also.

[RobbieB]

I just tipped a delivery guy $20 -

[Teacher Terry]

Serving is a busy demanding job constantly on your feet. If I had a choice between minimum wage jobs with no tipping I think I could find easier work. Tipping is a built in incentive for good service. Plus people would balk at much higher food prices. When my check is small then I certainly tip much more than 20%. No matter how small the check the servers still have to run around just as much.