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Re: Super cheap laptop
Old 06-12-2005, 07:50 PM   #101
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Re: Super cheap laptop

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Originally Posted by wabmester
TH, when you're right you're right. * And when you're wrong, you defend your bogus claims to the death! * *Didn't you learn anything from watching the OJ Simpson case on TV? * Never ask a question for which you don't already know the answer.

From Dell's tech specs, the battery life for each model is as follows:

Inspiron 1000: 1.5 hours (mobile celeron + NiMH)
Inspiron 1200: 2.5 hours (Celeron-M + NiMH)
Inspiron 2200: 4 hours (Celeron-M + Li-Ion)

I would recommend getting a laptop with at least 3H battery life to allow you to watch a movie on your flight and still have enough juice left to check your email when you land.
Re. "never ask a question unless you know the answer", I may have heard it before, but I remember it from 'A Civil Action' with Robert Duvall and
John Travolta. Great flick! Great book!

JG
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Re: Super cheap laptop
Old 06-12-2005, 07:53 PM   #102
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Re: Super cheap laptop

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Originally Posted by MRGALT2U
Re. "never ask a question unless you know the answer", I may have heard it before, but I remember it from 'A Civil Action' with Robert Duvall and
John Travolta.* Great flick!* Great book!
I was, of course, referring to Johnnie Cochran's immortal words: "if the glove doesn't fit, you must acquit!"
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Re: Super cheap laptop
Old 06-12-2005, 07:55 PM   #103
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Re: Super cheap laptop

Quote:
Originally Posted by wabmester
TH, when you're right you're right. And when you're wrong, you defend your bogus claims to the death! Didn't you learn anything from watching the OJ Simpson case on TV? Never ask a question for which you don't already know the answer.

From Dell's tech specs, the battery life for each model is as follows:

Inspiron 1000: 1.5 hours (mobile celeron + NiMH)
Inspiron 1200: 2.5 hours (Celeron-M + NiMH)
Inspiron 2200: 4 hours (Celeron-M + Li-Ion)

I would recommend getting a laptop with at least 3H battery life to allow you to watch a movie on your flight and still have enough juice left to check your email when you land.
There are some useful tools that let you extend battery life. I use one called SpeedSwitchXP which lowers the CPU speed. That and reducing the brightness of my screen and I can get 3 hours.

You also want to do things like quit programs you won't need on a plane (anti-virus, stuff like that.)
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Re: Super cheap laptop
Old 06-12-2005, 07:59 PM   #104
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Re: Super cheap laptop

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Originally Posted by Whakamole
There are some useful tools that let you extend battery life.* I use one called SpeedSwitchXP which lowers the CPU speed.
That only works with the Pentium-M, which TH believes is a frivolous waste of money
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Re: Super cheap laptop
Old 06-12-2005, 08:00 PM   #105
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Re: Super cheap laptop

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Originally Posted by wabmester
I was, of course, referring to Johnnie Cochran's immortal words: "if the glove doesn't fit, you must acquit!"
Yeah, that is a great line.

JG
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Re: Super cheap laptop
Old 06-12-2005, 08:06 PM   #106
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Re: Super cheap laptop

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Originally Posted by wabmester
That only works with the Pentium-M, which TH believes is a frivolous waste of money
I use it on my Athlon-based laptop and it works fine
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Re: Super cheap laptop
Old 06-12-2005, 09:46 PM   #107
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Re: Super cheap laptop

I knew the answer. Fer chrissakes I was the guy who wrote the frickin product roadmaps

The point is, for 95% of laptop owners, it doesnt matter. Very very few mobile users are away from power for more than 30-45 minutes at a time.

And the people enticed by a $500 laptop arent the 'jet setter' types like you Wab...
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Re: Super cheap laptop
Old 06-12-2005, 10:02 PM   #108
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Re: Super cheap laptop

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Originally Posted by th
The point is, for 95% of laptop owners, it doesnt matter.* Very very few mobile users are away from power for more than 30-45 minutes at a time.
Uncle! You win! All you students out there who want to take your notebook to class, don't take any classes that last longer than 30 minutes. Do not ride in airplanes. Do not commute by train. Do not attend long meetings. Do not brainstorm start-up plans over an extended lunch. Stick with the back of napkins, buy a two-year old laptop based on a desktop chipset that anybody would have been ecstatic to own before computers were invented. You're a wimp if you can't handle the weight and the heat. And remember: misery loves company, and according to TH, 95% of laptop owners are miserable.
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Re: Super cheap laptop
Old 06-12-2005, 10:29 PM   #109
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Re: Super cheap laptop

Hey TH, you aren't going to let this young pup have the last word are you? Get in there man and win one for the Gipper.

Ha
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Re: Super cheap laptop
Old 06-12-2005, 10:34 PM   #110
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Re: Super cheap laptop

Quote:
Originally Posted by wabmester
Uncle! You win! All you students out there who want to take your notebook to class, don't take any classes that last longer than 30 minutes. Do not ride in airplanes. Do not commute by train. Do not attend long meetings. Do not brainstorm start-up plans over an extended lunch. Stick with the back of napkins, buy a two-year old laptop based on a desktop chipset that anybody would have been ecstatic to own before computers were invented. You're a wimp if you can't handle the weight and the heat. And remember: misery loves company, and according to TH, 95% of laptop owners are miserable.
Exactly. I mean, who doesn't want to lug around a few extra pounds of weight, not to mention the extra bulk?

Whenever I take my small, light and thin laptop to a meeting, I know I regret it almost immediately when I see someone else haul in their beast and then look around for a power outlet. 8)
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Re: Super cheap laptop
Old 06-13-2005, 12:05 AM   #111
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Re: Super cheap laptop

Ha Ha ... are you kidding?

Wab...your point that spending twice as much on a laptop to get some more features is not wasted.

But are we forgetting my prior lives work?

The vast majority of laptop users put it in one place, plug it in, and only use it 'untethered' for very short periods of time. Much less than 90 minutes if you're about to ask...which is the minimum flat out for the basic dell laptop. Most users will get more.

The vast majority do not carry the laptop for extended periods of time. They dont play twitch 3d games. They arent composing dvd video into mpeg4 for 12 hours a day.

Further, most people dont ride on a train for anywhere near 90 minutes on anything approaching a regular basis, and most people who live on planes carry a spare battery and find themselves playing solitaire after an hour of honest work.

My peeve with this point-counterpoint is that this basic $500 laptop is perfectly fine for the vast, vast majority of home and student use. While it may not be optimal for full-on business users, they're getting their lappie bought and paid for by their company.

None of your arguments are 'bad', they just dont apply to most people. And yes, the 2200 is a better machine in some ways and worse in others than the 1000/1100/1200's. But it wasnt available when I made this post. While it has a few small pleasantries that some mobile users will appreciate, it is also a new machine with a new BOM and some new firmware that will take 6 months to fully iron out. There IS some blessing in a machine thats been around a year or two.

I said it right up front. If you're a twitch gamer, or doing heavy computation bound video work, this isnt your machine. For the other 95%+ of people, its fine. In fact, its a better machine BY FAR than the one I'm composing this message on. Which works just ducky for me. As you could have far more smoothly pointed out, if you're a heavy business user or an extreme techy that is willing to pay more, then there are better, more expensive options to consider.

Your "it wouldnt meet my needs and i'm willing to pay a lot more to have those minority needs met so everything else sucks" approach is what prickles me.
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Re: Super cheap laptop
Old 06-13-2005, 12:30 AM   #112
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Re: Super cheap laptop

TH, you'd have a couple of good points there if what you said was true. My problem with your original post and your continuing defense of that post is that the "super" deal on the 1000 was announced a little over one month after the introduction of the 1200 and 2200, both of which are readily available on any day of the week for under $600, and both of which are superior to the lowly 1000. I don't have a problem with people buying a low-end lappy if that's what suits them, but if they can get a better model for the same price, then that particularly lowly choice becomes indefensible.

And as far as the vast majority of people rarely being away from an AC outlet, you don't buy a battery to get you through your *average* time away from AC, you need a battery that ideally will last as long as your *maximum* time away from AC.

These truths would be self-evident to any egoless agendaless thoughtful being -- like me.

BTW, of course I respect your work at Intel. That's a company that clearly has their finger on the pulse of the market and never relied on having a monopoly on the x86 instruction set.
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Re: Super cheap laptop
Old 06-13-2005, 07:36 AM   #113
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Re: Super cheap laptop

I like two kinds of laptops - free(as in gift) and other people's(as in let me use it for a minute).

Sigh! --sometimes I still miss my old webtv with the sticky keyboard.

And I've been known to revert to the old no. 2 pencil and engr. graph paper - just seems more substantial to me.
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Re: Super cheap laptop
Old 06-13-2005, 08:30 AM   #114
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Re: Super cheap laptop

th, just because you don't move your laptop and don't use it for more than 30 (or is it 90?) minutes away from a power outlet, it doesn't mean that everyone has that idea too. There's a reason why people want a laptop instead of a (generally cheaper) desktop - they want the portability.

All it takes is one time where you needed the batteries to last three hours but they only lasted about half that time to curse your purchase.

It has nothing to do with playing "twitch 3d games" or composing dvds or whatever your idea of what we do with our laptops is. Even if you just use it to write letters, catch up on email or take notes, you still want that time, and you also want the portability.

The Dell is a rotten deal, considering the quality has gone downhill lately. Every Dell owner I know complains about it. I know a few Dell laptop owners who can't even get an hour from their batteries.

Meanwhile, I spent a little more and got a very nice, very portable and more powerful model. It only took one or two times that I wanted to be able to use it for three hours away from a power outlet for it to be worth it.

Stick to mattresses
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Re: Super cheap laptop
Old 06-13-2005, 09:01 AM   #115
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Re: Super cheap laptop

Well that was interesting !!!

Thanks guys....I think we found what we need.
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Re: Super cheap laptop
Old 06-13-2005, 01:54 PM   #116
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Re: Super cheap laptop

Wab - arguing with you is a truly cyclical experience. Neither the 1200 nor the 2200 were available at anything near this price when I made the original post. In fact, there were no comparable laptops of any kind available at this price point without going through 3 rebates and 2 coupons plus a pricematch.

I even asked you to provide a cheaper/better alternative. Your direction was to pay more for features that by research, most people do not need.

Whakamole - sorry but I have to flip your argument. Just because you're a highly mobile professional and use your laptop on the go does not mean most people do. Look up some actual broad based research. The vast majority of laptops are plugged into a wall on a desk at home or at school and left there the vast majority of the time. They're used as small form factor, quiet, unobtrusive machines.

At no point have I argued that this was the laptop for everyone, or that it was the ideal product for a technically savvy person that has specific needs. Because that sort of user is not only not going to be interested in this product (and know it), they probably wouldnt even read the thread.

As far as Dells quality...what can I say? I dont and never have worked for the company, I dont and never have owned their stock, although whenever someone has asked me what to buy I've sent them there. Reason being due to every broad based analysis of product quality and customer service has dell always in the top 3, and frequently at number one. I dont have any other objective experience other than having one of their laptops that is 7 years old and still works great, and my in laws and other relatives having purchased a number of their desktops and laptops. So far nobody has had a problem and the service has been fine.
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Re: Super cheap laptop
Old 06-13-2005, 02:18 PM   #117
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Re: Super cheap laptop

Paid $800 for Compaq 2103-US at Fry's (after rebate). Mobile Atlon 2800, w/256k. Upgrade mem to 512k (~$60), and configured for wireless.

Will run about 3 hrs surfing the Net, a little less watching prono clips...

Touchpad is adequate, but not great, left mouse button is "touchy".

Bought for the aforementioned small form factor, unobtrusive, etc. Have only left home with it once, to test T-mobile connection at Starbuck's.

Overall, satisfactory, but is a bit hefty for true road warrior.
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Re: Super cheap laptop
Old 06-13-2005, 02:40 PM   #118
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Re: Super cheap laptop

For some people a bare bones Honda Civic makes sense. Others a Lexus, still others an F150. I don't understand why you argue about these laptop choices. You are all right.

But I'm still not happy with my 01 Dell Insprion that's been freezing since 2002. I even had to replace a PIII which is supposed to last 5,000 years!!!

I can appreciate the design challenge of a good laptop (performance, weight, battery life, heat dissipation). The problem is that most aren't rugged enough to be used on your lap! If you don't need the portability, you'll get a better value (and longer lifetime) from a desktop.
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Re: Super cheap laptop
Old 06-13-2005, 02:59 PM   #119
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Re: Super cheap laptop

Quote:
Originally Posted by th
I even asked you to provide a cheaper/better alternative.* Your direction was to pay more for features that by research, most people do not need.
Uh huh. Your memory is going. Perhaps this old post of mine from April will refresh:

Quote:
Hondas are fine, but I'm not sure it's a good idea to highlight a sale for discontinued Yugos

Dell has stopped making any laptops with desktop-style chipsets. You can often pick up their new low-end lappies for $500-$600: the i1200 (replaces the 1000), i2200 (replaces the 1150), and i6000 (replaces the 5160 and 8600). Those are the Hondas.
TH, I fear you have descended into madness. Your only hope at this point is to REPENT! Abandon your ludicrous defense of the craptastic 1000.

KB, which laptop did you end up buying for your kid? I am standing by ready to critique
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Re: Super cheap laptop
Old 06-13-2005, 03:11 PM   #120
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Re: Super cheap laptop

th,

I'm not a highly mobile professional, but thanks for guessing

The reason that people leave their laptops chained to a desk is because they are bulky and heavy. Who wants to lug that around?

Think of it this way: people don't carry around boom boxes to listen to music. They carry iPods. Why? Because iPods are light and compact; boom boxes are big and bulky.

The form of the device changes how you use it, even if it is basically the same thing under the covers.

I think it's silly to restrict yourself just because everyone else has. Yes, you can buy an old 15" laptop that weighs about 7 pounds and gets an hour of battery life, and you'll never move it because of the limitations you have placed on yourself. Or you can buy a compact one and see all the possibilities.
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