Surfing Thread

[donheff]

Always a combination of factors for me (similar but different hazards with kitesurfing).

TD: I have been curious about kitesurfing for some time but have wondered about the learning curve. I noticed that John Kerry picked it up and he looks to be a windsurfer at about my level and close to my age. I also wakeboard and snowboard a bit.

Is kitesurfing hard to get the hang of? A PITA to rig? How much wind do you need to get going out in the water (is it easy to get stuck floating around unable to water start)?

 

[JB]

I keep meaning to buy foam-edged fins and nose bumpers but somehow it never made it onto my list. Well, now it has. Is it better to buy these at a local shop or to order them online?

My guess is that the boys and girls at your local shop are the best bet. Let us know how if there's a performance hit (or advantage) from the urethane edged fins. Didn't mean to spook you -- this happened when he was a beginner.

 

[macdaddy]

Got a few good rides in this morning. Everyone disappeared around 9 AM -- guess they had to go to work.

Next question: Which techniques do you use to get out through the impact zone? I can't duck dive with my 9'6" board. I sometimes roll over and hang below, sometimes sink the nose and pull myself down, and sometimes jump off, hold the nose and sink. But none of these work real well for me.

When I was first learning how to surf I was down on the eastern coast of Costa Rica, off some beach with scorching hot black sand, and the waves were probably 10 or 12 ft high. I didn't know how to really paddle around, so I just kept paddling out, and being pushed back by the waves. I literally paddled continuously for 45 minutes until my arms were about to fall off. I finally thought I had cleared the break so I stopped paddling for about 20 seconds. All of a sudden I look up and another 12 ft wave is breaking right on top of me. 60 seconds later I was up on the rocks on the beach bleeding from 3 or 4 places, with 2 little Costa Rican kids laughing at me. My friends were real proud of me, since I had managed to protect my board.. "board repairs cost money, but wounds heal for free".. one of my first surfing lessons.. now I really want to try windsurfing but the equipment looks more complicated.

 

[TargaDave]

TD: I have been curious about kitesurfing for some time but have wondered about the learning curve. I noticed that John Kerry picked it up and he looks to be a windsurfer at about my level and close to my age. I also wakeboard and snowboard a bit.

Is kitesurfing hard to get the hang of? A PITA to rig? How much wind do you need to get going out in the water (is it easy to get stuck floating around unable to water start)?

I'm 47 and I know plenty of kiters in their 60's. Make sure to take at least a few days of professional lessons (never self teach). Here is one school example (http://www.realkiteboarding.com/) but you can learn just about anywhere. Traveling with gear is a snap (one golf bag for planes) and rigging takes 10 minutes. Need about 12 mph to get going. Wind is about 23 mph in the picture. Over 35 mph and I'm on the beach with a beer.

[I remember during the elections they accused Kerry of being "Elitist" for kitesurfing and windsufing and then showed GW was just a good ole water lovin boy tooling around in Dad's $400k 40 ft express cruiser. Go figure]

If it's under 10 mph I just break out the circa 1983 12' aircraft carrier and play with the kids. Warning: the 83' six pack abbs have been replaced with a permanent six pack (mostly Sierra-Nevada)

 

[donheff]

I'm 47 and I know plenty of kiters in their 60's. Make sure to take at least a few days of professional lessons (never self teach). Here is one school example (http://www.realkiteboarding.com/) [\quote]

Thanks I will see if I can work something out with these guys at Dewey Beach or take a few days down in Hatteras.

[I remember during the elections they accused Kerry of being "Elitist" for kitesurfing and windsufing

The add that irritated me the most was the one that showed him gentling gliding back and forth on a windsurfer in light wind and essentially called him a pussy as compared to GW. Too bad everyone missed the shots of him back in the straps moving at twice the wind speed or getting air (albeit only a few feet) kitesailing. But that is why they pay Rove the big bucks.

 

[Nords]

My guess is that the boys and girls at your local shop are the best bet. Let us know how if there's a performance hit (or advantage) from the urethane edged fins. Didn't mean to spook you -- this happened when he was a beginner.

I'm using FCS tri-fins on our nine-footer and a big ol' single FCS rudder on a 7'9". I'm not sure I'd have enough skill to tell the difference.

I'm not spooked. I've already had one "experienced" guy hurl his skull on the tip of one of my old boards (luckily his skull was harder than the board, but his scalp sure got in the way). Yesterday I had two guys who got close enough on the waves to reach out and touch, which in retrospect I probalby should have done just to save someone else the trouble. At least they were good enough to apologize.

It really pisses me off when I work hard to stay 10-20 feet away from another paddler and they still turn right at me. Or when I paddle to a part of the wave that no surfer in their right mind would ever aim for, yet that's right where they "decide" to go. But that's probably par for the course at a beginner's beach.

The good news is that I rode an eight-foot A-frame right off the lip, down through the mush, bottom-turned back up the lip to a cutback, and made it all the way to the beach. I have no idea how my body processes those reflex actions but it happens way too fast for my analytical thinking skills. However my analytical side knows enough to quit while I'm ahead!

 

[TromboneAl]

I'll dip the left rail and slide the board to the left to submerge it, get my weight up front on my hands, and do a duck dive.

I had high hopes for this today, but I think my board is just too buoyant.

I had a good workout today. Wave height, according to the buoy was 8-10 feet and the period was only 6 seconds. It took me about 40 minutes to get out. Most of that was spent making no progress at all, and then I finally got a bit of a lull.

I was all by myself out there. Exactly where there was a shark attack in 2002. After a long wait to regain my strength, I caught one wave and rode it all the way in. Perhaps my largest wave ever.

Took a break then practiced some stuff inside.

 

[ronin]

8' at 6 seconds on a long board and you made it out! My cap is off to you. Today we had mixed tropical hurricane and southern hemi long period, 3-4', with enough current headed north to end up half way to Santa Barbara by lunchtime. Just so-so shape with the steep angle. Lotsa dork-a$$ed weekend longboarders floundering everywhere.

 

[TromboneAl]

Last Monday I had a good surf session, but one wave collapsed right behind me, and I let myself fall back into the washing machine.  The fall twisted my back, and strained a muscle that I tend to injure every year or so (despite my Nords-recommended 20 crunches per day prevention regimen).

It felt pretty good by Thursday (denial?), and I went out for a great three hour surfing session.  Back was OK, and I did a few diagonal crunches to start strengthening the back.

Now I'm hobbling around like an old man.   I have got to solve this problem, even if I have to do an hour of silly back exercises every day (once it has healed).

 

[Nords]

Last Monday I had a good surf session, but one wave collapsed right behind me, and I let myself fall back into the washing machine.  The fall twisted my back, and strained a muscle that I tend to injure every year or so (despite my Nords-recommended 20 crunches per day prevention regimen).

Hunh, I've been taking 800 mg ibuprofen 3x/day and haven't had a problem yet! I'm not looking forward to the day my knee is pronounced "cured" and I have to start living drug-free.

Chronic injuries really worry me. Crunches aren't all bad but they aren't all good either. I'm about halfway into Jolie Bookspan's "Fix Your Own Pain" and it's an eye-opener on posture & muscle balance. It'll be interesting to see how she feels about water sports like surfing.

 

[TromboneAl]

I think the crunches have really helped my back in general, but they don't help for the kind of twisting back muscle strain that I seem to get.

 

[ronin]

Maybe it could be worthwhile to compare techiques for receiving a working over, bailing out, falling off, etc?  Having spent nearly 20 years learning, practicing and teaching ukemi (roughly translated: falling skills) in aikido, I think there are some practical areas of overlap with surfing.  I try to use a relaxed posture, not comatose relaxed, more of minimal use of tension, and blend with the forces of the water as much as possible (duh?).  Low and slow as much as possible, and bend in the natural direction the body goes.  For the way you went, Al, as far as I picture it in my mind, I try to use a squid manuever (my imagery) where I bend at the waist, like sitting on the floor touching my toes, keeping by legs shoreward so the leash doesn't wrap around me or jerk me.  I try to combine it with a little penetration of the surface feet first so I get a little under some of the breaking part of the wave.  I find it is effective at slowing everything down, and is a comfortable and safe posture to maintain.  Of course anything can and will happen and it to a large extent depends on how in control we are when we bail and our orientation in relation to the wave, the surface and the board.

 

[Nords]

White Plains is so shallow that anything other than a flat pancake into the water risks chopping your feet (or your skull) into a coral head.

So if I have to get off the board and I get a choice, I dive straight back into the wave or sit down. Of course I rarely get a choice...

 

[ronin]

Nords, I have to go work out in a few minutes, so I won't be back online for a while but.... can you describe "diving back into the wave" a little more? (Sitting down is pretty self-explanatory) What's the set up and where do you end up? What happens to your board?

 

[Nords]

.... can you describe "diving back into the wave" a little more?  (Sitting down is pretty self-explanatory)  What's the set up and where do you end up?  What happens to your board?

It's not much more than duck-diving. I sure hope there's no one shoreward of me and that the leash holds. And it's a lot easier if you're surfing frontside.

But when you fall, make a flat dive out of it and be pointed back out to sea. Hopefully the wave rolls over you, the board is pulled clear of your head, and you're not slammed down into the bottom. The tug on your ankle reassures you that the board is still there and, if necessary, you can climb the leash toward the light.

I usually end up doing it shortly after I dig a rail or realize that I'm not ready to hang 10... or even a cheater five.

 

[TromboneAl]

The second I felt the pain I thought "Well, I've learned another way not to fall."

It happened because (1) I dropped right into the most violent part of the wave, and (2) this back muscle has been strained about 8 times in my life.

In fact, since I can do nothing but sit here and write, let me tell you a story about how my straining this back muscle got put into a song played on the national radio program "A Prairie Home Companion (APHC)."

In 1997 we went to Club Med in Xtapa.  While there we got to be good friends with Pat Donohue and his family.  He's the guitar player in the Guys All-Star Shoe Band on APHC. 

While sailing a small boat, and ducking under the boom, I pulled this same muscle in my back.  When I mentioned this to Pat, he got that lightbulb expression on his face, and said "You just helped me get another line for a song I'm writing."

Next week he sings his funny parody song "Mexican Vacation" on APHC, and it's got the line:

"While dancing the rumba, I damaged my lumbar, and cried 'Ah, Carumba, I'm dying...'"

So, that's my name-dropping story of how this muscle was immortalized in song.

 

[Nords]

In fact, since I can do nothing but sit here and write, let me tell you a story...

Get well soon, Al!

 

[Nords]

Martha, Cut-Throat, I take back all the mean things I've said about Great Lakes surfing...

http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/2006/Sep/03/bz/FP609030310.html

 

[Martha]

Martha, Cut-Throat, I take back all the mean things I've said about Great Lakes surfing...

http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/2006/Sep/03/bz/FP609030310.html

A documentary film was made called Unsalted, about surfing the Great Lakes. Part was filmed a few blocks from where I live.

View the trailer and watch the surfers walk through the snow: http://www.surfline.com/video/video_player/video_player.cfm?id=1895&mv=trl

 

[Nords]

Ye gods, I'll never complain about cold water again.

How can those guys be getting tubed without 25 other surfers paddling through?

 

[Nords]

My earlier comments about close encounters were a little too prescient-- my longboard got its first serious ding.

I've had this nine-foot Keola Rapoza board for 3½ years. It's survived parking lots, high winds, and our kid's careless attempts to carry it. However it couldn't survive a kook.

We had great surf a couple weekends ago and our kid was a monster on her 7'9" molded board. She'll be 14 in two months, and she seems to have grown into her shoulder muscles while perfecting the art of the lazy no-paddle takeoff. She must have caught 15 rides in an hour and we were having a wonderful time catching father-daughter party waves.

The guy who hit my board was paddling out through the weekend crowds about 30 feet in front of us when he decided that he just had to have the next wave. He managed to turn around and paddle his longboard into a nice right, but for some reason he decided to go left. We had already turned in that direction but we kept going while expecting him to turn back to the right. However he never turned and, when he finally saw us, he never even popped up. It was like a slow-motion train board wreck as he first narrowly missed my kid and then headed straight for me. I bailed at the last second (in disbelief) under my board and felt his fin crunch to a halt in my rail.

He got off his board, I surfaced and asked him if he was all right, he said he was OK, and he paddled back out. Not even an "Eh, sorry brah", let alone something like "Gee, I'm an idiot, let me give you $50 for the damage and inconvenience I've caused."

We paddled in and brought the board home to dry out. It took over two ounces of UV-cure resin to fill the hole. I still have a couple dimples to smooth out but the board surfed fine today in 5-7 feet. We'll have another good swell this weekend, and I'm going to be a much more defensive paddler!

I've also added a nose bumper and ordered a set of Proteck safety fins. I don't want to hear that crunching noise ever again.

I was also surprised to learn that UV-cure resin can harden inside the container over the course of a couple years.

 

[JB]

We have a nice south swell on the way from New Zealand. The equatorial bouy is showing long 19-24 second intervals. Unfortunately, there's a box jellyfish warning forcasts for the same time that we'll see waves. These critters usually come to south and west side beaches 8-10 days after the full moon.

The first time I was stung by a Portuguese Man o' War it hurt so much that I screamed. I may becoming immune to the venum because the stings aren't nearly as painful now. Once I was stung on the foot while doing a 4 mile upwind windsurfing run. The lymph nodes in my groin swelled up and it was so painful I could barely walk. I had to come in and call for help.

It's always a tough call whether or not to surf when there are jellyfish around. If they are swarming I stay on the beach. If they are scattered I'll go out with a long sleeve rash guard and try to paddle around them. A friend tells me some surfers use nylons on their legs for protection.

The good news is that we also have a NW swell on the way. Might be able to save on some gas and jellyfish stings.

 

[donheff]

I'm 47 and I know plenty of kiters in their 60's. Make sure to take at least a few days of professional lessons (never self teach). Here is one school example (http://www.realkiteboarding.com/) but you can learn just about anywhere. Traveling with gear is a snap (one golf bag for planes) and rigging takes 10 minutes. Need about 12 mph to get going. Wind is about 23 mph in the picture. Over 35 mph and I'm on the beach with a beer.

Thanks for the link Dave. DS and I are going down to Hatteras next Thursday for a three day individual "zero to hero" clinic. I will report back on the results.

 

[ronin]

Warren Bolster dies

Pioneer surf/skateboard photographer Warren Bolster died of a self-inflicted gun shot wound in Hawaii. If you get a chance check out some of his images. He was a great photographer.

 

[TromboneAl]

Finally surfed again after pulling that muscle in my back. 7-8 foot waves, and I sure felt old and tired. Will see how the back feels after the ibuprofen wears off.

Funny thing that happened was this young diving sea bird (Murrelet?) swims over while I'm waiting for waves. Wants to get on the board, so I pick it up and hold it for a while. It's perfectly happy, looking around, not scared at all.