Surprised and Concerned

[Moemg]

Where I live in Florida is really a mixed neighborhood from million dollar houses on the water all the way to a senior mobile park .We have gotten to know a lot of the people and the happiest are the mobile park residents . They are mostly living on SS and small pensions with tiny or no savings but they are having a great life .They are retired golfing, playing shuffleboard , doing water aerobics and just having fun. Everybody that is not loaded are not miserable . They are just living their life with their means.I also frequently see older women working in our local department store.A lot of them are widows and need to get out and talk to people . It takes me forever to check out because of a long conversation about clothes and where I am from.They do not seem miserable only lonely.

[Moemg]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nemo2 Amen. DW & I share an I.D. on Cruise Critic, (although it's morphed into primarily me), and some of the topics raised make one wonder if the initiator has ever crossed the road alone. 'Trivial' falls far short of describing them.

My favorites are the ones that go on and on about formal night and people not dressing appropriately.

[pj.mask]

I think the education system is fine. You typically have the option to take more advanced classes. If you can take calculus you should be able to compute interest.

I think it is more of a society/genetic issue. What I have seen in engineering are many ‘living for today’ can often understand the math but they don’t have any interest in sacrificing to make it happen (there are some with really hairball ideas too.. one economist tried to convince me to bury gold coins in my yard for when PRESIDENT ruins the economy.)

I think the current generation does expect to be given challenges and rewarded for them. What the older generation fails to grasp is how to appropriately respond - simple recognition is a lot cheaper than compensation and may get you just as far. You can cast the blame game all you want between the generations but as the last page of posts seem to confirm, similar accusations will likely reappear in 10, 20, 30, etc. years directed to the newcomers

[ndnguy822000]

It’s very common, I’m 35 and have more saved than my counterpart who have worked same job for more than 20’years. A while back there was a takeover for our company and the pension was no longer available so they offered to cash everyone out, my 55 year old conworkers wife convinced him that it was a good idea to cash out his 120k pension instead of rolling it over. They both make about 160k a year and he got literally HAMMERED with taxes and fees. It’s not that people DONT know it’s that people don’t give a **** until it’s too late. Decisions decisions decisions and people can’t control themselves or have married someone WORSE than them.

[Nemo2]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moemg My favorites are the ones that go on and on about formal night and people not dressing appropriately.

Oh yeah! DW & I travel on ships to get to or from somewhere; it would appear, judging from the 'average' post there, that the vast majority view 'cruising' as an extended 'adult' sleepover where they get to play dress up and engage in childish games.

(We just look for the elusive snippet of actual information.)

[NoiseBoy]

A friend received a buy-out offer from his mega insurance corp last fall. He is just 55, and had not been planning on retiring so soon, but he had to consider the offer because it was also part of a reduction in workforce (of course.) He has a pension.

He is married with two kids who are both out of the house but still being covered by his megacorp HI plan. His spouse works part time. I forget the exact numbers, but the main reason he turned down the package was the cost of retiree HI. I guess the premiums for family coverage in retirement are a lot more than what he is currently paying while working.

[RonBoyd]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oma_here Maybe we like to blame schools for what really is a failure of oarents to teach their children basic financial skills as well as the art of waiting for something you want until you can afford it.

So the Blind (the subject of this thread) leading the Blind is your solution?

[Mr._Graybeard]

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Originally Posted by redduck Don't want to drop names, but I know the "old lady" coming down the stairs in the stair lift. Even been to her house a few times. She was also in a Katy Perry video. She's never going to retire voluntarily. Good on her.

I worked with a couple of guys at my newspaper who were arts critics. One of them was on the job full time until he was approaching 80. He was collecting a paycheck when he died. The other guy was laid off in a staff shakeup well into his 70s. He went to work writing for another publication.

I suppose their identities were tied up in their work, but I think they also simply loved what they were doing and didn't want to give it up. Such people (and such jobs) do exist.

[Amethyst]

In the ad, D.J. Nana sure looks like she enjoys her work!

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Originally Posted by Mr._Graybeard I suppose their identities were tied up in their work, but I think they also simply loved what they were doing and didn't want to give it up. Such people (and such jobs) do exist.

[Joylush]

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Originally Posted by CaliKid "Fallen victim?" Maybe we savers are the victims? I am sometimes envious of people that live for the day. I try not to be judgmental because if they do drop dead tomorrow at 55 or 60 or whatever then I would say they did things right and I am the sucka!

My thoughts exactly. So many victims are victims of their own decision making.

I do remember losing a bit in the stock market in 2008. My carpenter commented about feeling lucky that he had nothing to invest so he didn't lose anything. It was a point to ponder for sure. I lost and he got full use of his money.

[tb001]

As others have said, I think the reasons are varied, but one of the things I haven't seen mentioned is the out of control expense ratios on many employer sponsered 401k plans. And the tendency for people to chose an actively managed target date plan. There have been a number of lawsuits about this recently, but even after complaining and switching plans, my company is still above where they should be.

I also don't think it's a coincidence that so many here are either engineers or have jobs that offered a pension. It's huge to be able to finish college with an undergrad degree that lets you step into a reasonably well paying job immediately. I was a science major, and thought that would set me up for a good career. Little did I know how low compensation would be! And if you need a grad degree, which many high paying fields demand now, that can really cut into key earning/savings years.

Couple that with people paying for kids education on the back end of life, and it being way more expensive than anyone expected 20 yrs ago, and it can really do a number on savings. My SIL and her husband have always made good money, but are in their 60s and now living with parents. It's insane and just frightening to think what will happen when they can't live with parents anymore. There was a lot of living beyond their means for sure, but a crazy amount of money spent on education.

[kcowan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nightcap The last one, the most expensive indulgence of all, is the Mistress. She can utterly ruin even the richest man. It's a lot easier just to stay in love with the one you married. Fortunately for me (and my early retirement), the Unindicted Co-Conspirator makes that easy.

Ironically, when I left my SAHM after the kids were long gone, friends said: "Why not take a lover?" and I said it is the way of life that I am escaping. Spending without consequence. I was determined to avoid that mistake again and I did.

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Originally Posted by athena53 Ah, that's another one with recurring "hot threads". Should I try and smuggle alcohol on board? Can I make my flight home if it departs 3 hours after we arrive in port? Should I book excursions independently or through the cruise line? Can I get good deals on diamonds in the port stores in the Caribbean? I try to be gentle- at least they're asking for information. If the responses can keep them from making newbie mistakes, it's all good.

lmgtfy.com is the easiest way to handle that. But it gets old because there is an endless stream of them. Best to avoid the site entirely. Or be very selective about topics visited.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tb001 Couple that with people paying for kids education on the back end of life, and it being way more expensive than anyone expected 20 yrs ago, and it can really do a number on savings. My SIL and her husband have always made good money, but are in their 60s and now living with parents. It's insane and just frightening to think what will happen when they can't live with parents anymore. There was a lot of living beyond their means for sure, but a crazy amount of money spent on education.

Yes I think too many parents consider education of their kids to be their responsibility. Getting the kids educated to the extent of their desire/ability is a good objective. But taking it on is misguided without some skin in the game by them.

[Meadbh]

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Originally Posted by Nemo2 Oh yeah! DW & I travel on ships to get to or from somewhere; it would appear, judging from the 'average' post there, that the vast majority view 'cruising' as an extended 'adult' sleepover where they get to play dress up and engage in childish games.

I did a transatlantic cruise in 2016. It was the beginning of a 35 day, multi country European trip. One of the great advantages of FIRE is the ability to do slow travel. On the ship I met Floridians who were cruising for the 40th time and taking advantage of incredible bargains. They were sailing all the way to Rome, only to head straight for the airport to fly home.

[Nemo2]

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Originally Posted by Meadbh They were sailing all the way to Rome, only to head straight for the airport to fly home.

And, having read their posts and temporarily studied them via 'passive acoustic observation methods', we've noted that many prefer to go from one venue to another en masse using 'private' transportation.......which, of course, doesn't come cheaply.

Civitavecchia, (as per your example), to Roma Termini is quick, easy, painless and enjoyable by train....for some of us......for others it's viewed as running the gauntlet and to be avoided at any cost.

[Meadbh]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nemo2 And, having read their posts and temporarily studied them via 'passive acoustic observation methods', we've noted that many prefer to go from one venue to another en masse using 'private' transportation.......which, of course, doesn't come cheaply. Civitavecchia, (as per your example), to Roma Termini is quick, easy, painless and enjoyable by train....for some of us......for others it's viewed as running the gauntlet and to be avoided at any cost.

I disembarked at Civitavecchia and took the train to Termini, connecting to the Frecciarossa to Firenze, where I had booked a Room with a View!

[aaronc879]

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Originally Posted by Moemg Everybody that is not loaded are not miserable .

Only the ones who are still working. I for one would rather be retired and living on $30K/yr than live on $100K/yr but have to work full time. It's not even close.

[athena53]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moemg We have gotten to know a lot of the people and the happiest are the mobile park residents . They are mostly living on SS and small pensions with tiny or no savings but they are having a great life .They are retired golfing, playing shuffleboard , doing water aerobics and just having fun. Everybody that is not loaded are not miserable . They are just living their life with their means.

My concern would be the increasing expenses with advancing age- prescription copays, more help cleaning the house, mowing the lawn, doing home repairs, etc. because you are no longer physically able to do it, the one-shot expenses of replacing a car or an HVAC system if you own your place, and the items Medicare doesn't cover such as eyeglasses, hearing aids and dental care.

Yeah, I'm a worrier- but I see my BIL and SIL (he's 82, she's in her late 60s) living in a modular home that's falling down around them, on his military pension and whatever benefits she gets as his spouse. Anything- a major car repair or a dead refrigerator- is a crisis.

[kcowan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meadbh I did a transatlantic cruise in 2016. It was the beginning of a 35 day, multi country European trip. One of the great advantages of FIRE is the ability to do slow travel. On the ship I met Floridians who were cruising for the 40th time and taking advantage of incredible bargains. They were sailing all the way to Rome, only to head straight for the airport to fly home.

We met people from England and Wales who stayed on our med cruise ship because they had taken it so often. Cheap all inclusive!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nemo2 And, having read their posts and temporarily studied them via 'passive acoustic observation methods', we've noted that many prefer to go from one venue to another en masse using 'private' transportation.......which, of course, doesn't come cheaply. Civitavecchia, (as per your example), to Roma Termini is quick, easy, painless and enjoyable by train....for some of us......for others it's viewed as running the gauntlet and to be avoided at any cost.

Yes we took the train and met with a walking tour guide who showed us the hidden treasures and got us front of the line to the Colosseum. There were 6 of us who arranged that ahead of time thanks to cruisecritic.

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Originally Posted by Meadbh I disembarked at Civitavecchia and took the train to Termini, connecting to the Frecciarossa to Firenze, where I had booked a Room with a View!

When we returned via Vueling from Sicily last September, we chose to taxi to Fregene on the med rather than go into Rome again for 2 nights. It is a delightful resort town for Romans but was empty in September. At one restaurant, the waiter had to rely on another patron to ensure he understood our order. But there were several restaurants and a small grocery store, and we had an elevated patio overlooking the beach. We used their free bikes to get around town.

[aja8888]

Quote:

Originally Posted by athena53 My concern would be the increasing expenses with advancing age- prescription copays, more help cleaning the house, mowing the lawn, doing home repairs, etc. because you are no longer physically able to do it, the one-shot expenses of replacing a car or an HVAC system if you own your place, and the items Medicare doesn't cover such as eyeglasses, hearing aids and dental care.

Yep, you just shook my memory for the last 12 months:

DW's prescriptions (after Part D pays) - ~$4 K OOP
House cleaning - $150/month - DW no longer able to do a decent job
Lawn care (me, fortunately)
New furnace last week - $3370
Glasses, contacts, etc - $500 +/year
Dental - Last year - $40 K - my reconstruction work, two implants, etc. (one time event)
Dental - DW - $1200 root canal
Other Medicare uncovered (not including insurance coverage)- $1000

Yep, getting older is not for sissies and those with limited funds. I'm starting to wonder why we have a 2,000 square foot house with two of us in it? A smaller condo would suit me better.

[JoeWras]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tb001 I also don't think it's a coincidence that so many here are either engineers or have jobs that offered a pension. It's huge to be able to finish college with an undergrad degree that lets you step into a reasonably well paying job immediately. I was a science major, and thought that would set me up for a good career. Little did I know how low compensation would be! And if you need a grad degree, which many high paying fields demand now, that can really cut into key earning/savings years.

I wanted to be a scientist. Badly.

My mom actually did a little research for me. She was a smart cookie, but only years later did I realize how smart she was since she was "only" a homemaker. Anyway, as part of her parenting, one day, around 9th grade, she said to me:
"Joe, did you know if you want to be an astronomer, you really need a PhD? Do you know what it takes to get a PhD? Oh, and I got this book from the library, check out the pay scales... Have you considered engineering? You might like it."

At the time, I was like, "Yeah, whatever old lady." But it stuck in my mind, and through really good career counseling in my High School, I discovered it was the right way. It became clear to me after calculus in 11th grade, I was not really cut out for PhD tracks anyway. I just didn't think that way."

Anyway, call it lucky, or call it good parenting. Mom really, really had an impact. Thanks mom! Rest in peace.

Footnote: my cousin became an astronomer and does just fine. Yep, he got the PhD. But we're now both burned out on our careers. Different paths, but we're both OK and can R.E. Pure science careers can work too, but you have to get that advanced degree, and man oh man, it is work.