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Old 02-26-2010, 12:06 PM   #221
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Second, they showed some professor who would short circuit the system which Toyota claimed would produce a code... the test driver said the brakes would not slow down the car... and they showed that there was no code in the system. They said Toyota is now interested in seeing the guys research...

I wonder who else can have these problems....
I have to wonder that, too. All modern cars are so computerized; it's scary.
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Old 02-26-2010, 12:30 PM   #222
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Originally Posted by Texas Proud View Post

Second, they showed some professor who would short circuit the system which Toyota claimed would produce a code... the test driver said the brakes would not slow down the car... and they showed that there was no code in the system. They said Toyota is now interested in seeing the guys research...

I wonder who else can have these problems....
To be a tad more accurate:

The prof shorted the two independent pedal position sensor's outputs together. No error code. Then he connected these two shorted sensors' outputs to one of the independent power supplies for the sensors. Still no error code, but the throttle instantly opened fully, allowing maximum engine speed. Still no error code. The prof found this repeatable and on several different Toyota models.

Based on the prof's info, clearly Toyota missed some error trapping opportunities.

It is now up to Toyota to show why no error code, and if this condition can happen in real life, without some professor probing around.

Food for thought.

And as the old Ginzu knife commercial said, there is more.
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Old 02-26-2010, 12:31 PM   #223
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I have to wonder that, too. All modern cars are so computerized; it's scary.
I agree--I don't have a Toyota but who's to say my cars don't have some equivalent bugs in their computerized systems?

The inability to manually override some of the car's functions reminds me of problems that I vaguely remember with the first manned spacecraft being controlled by the NASA people on the ground and not the astronauts.
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Old 02-26-2010, 01:26 PM   #224
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I heard today that the Toyota 2009-2010 Venza is now on the list of recalled vehicles. I believe that is the car that W2R just bought. You need to go to Toyota's site and put your VIN in to see if your vehicle is recalled. Hopefully, W2R's car is not recalled because she has the special floor mats. Anyway, be safe W2R and all other Toyota car drivers.
And this is why the Venza has been recalled....

Toyota owner says automakers can't be trusted
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Re: My 2007 Toyota Tacoma
Old 02-26-2010, 06:19 PM   #225
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Re: My 2007 Toyota Tacoma

I have been impatiently waiting for my notification from Toyota by mail or email of: first, the recall and second, a notice to bring it in for a fix. Last Wednesday, I tried to make an appointment on line with my dealer requesting a fix for the recall. I had no hope of them responding other than something in writing that said they didn't have a solution yet.
A couple hours after I sent the email, I received a phone call asking me when I wanted to bring it in for a "sticky accelerator" repair. (My previous reading of the problem for my model, plugging in my VIN number, suggested no such thing. Just to pull the floor mat and wait till they found a way to get it fixed. Nails or screws or glue or something, I guessed.)

Anyway, I should have it either fixed by Monday evening. I'll post. I have thoughts about the culturally ignorant dodoes I watched lambasting the Toyota's president Toyoda Thursday that I'd like to share.
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Old 02-27-2010, 06:41 AM   #226
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I don't know, but I'm asking and "observing." With all of this fly by wire controls on modern cars what is the likelihood that the controls, like service brakes, gearshift, and ignition (for the most part) are fly by wire also? Isn't the E-brake required to be mechanical? I thought I had read somewhere that it was required that the brakes have enough power to stop a vehicle in case a runaway condition occurred. If the all of the systems are computer controlled and the computer "malfunctions" causing sudden acceleration, then it would make sense that the other systems might not function as designed, which is a good reason to have mechanical backup. The only way that can malfunction is to be physically broke.
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Old 02-27-2010, 07:36 AM   #227
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ls99 View Post
To be a tad more accurate:

The prof shorted the two independent pedal position sensor's outputs together. No error code. Then he connected these two shorted sensors' outputs to one of the independent power supplies for the sensors. Still no error code, but the throttle instantly opened fully, allowing maximum engine speed. Still no error code. The prof found this repeatable and on several different Toyota models.

Based on the prof's info, clearly Toyota missed some error trapping opportunities.

It is now up to Toyota to show why no error code, and if this condition can happen in real life, without some professor probing around.

Food for thought.

And as the old Ginzu knife commercial said, there is more.

Thanks for the accuracy.... I had watched it on TV and did not know what he shorted...

I bet it does not give a code since the system probably believes that the person has floored the pedal and WANTS to go fast...
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Old 02-27-2010, 07:45 AM   #228
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..... I thought I had read somewhere that it was required that the brakes have enough power to stop a vehicle in case a runaway condition occurred. .....

I have never heard this as a requirement... and I know that the one on my Acura would not stop the car if the transmission was engaged and at full power....

My old Firebird had enough torque that you could have the brakes fully depressed and it could still spin the wheels... it was an interesting way to smoke the tires... if you were stopped, the front brakes would hold the car still enough to get the back tires smoking... release the brakes and shoot off like a rocket.... since the emergency brakes were connected to the back wheels... it would not stop the car at all.....
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Old 02-27-2010, 07:49 AM   #229
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I don't know, but I'm asking and "observing." With all of this fly by wire controls on modern cars what is the likelihood that the controls, like service brakes, gearshift, and ignition (for the most part) are fly by wire also? Isn't the E-brake required to be mechanical? I thought I had read somewhere that it was required that the brakes have enough power to stop a vehicle in case a runaway condition occurred. If the all of the systems are computer controlled and the computer "malfunctions" causing sudden acceleration, then it would make sense that the other systems might not function as designed, which is a good reason to have mechanical backup. The only way that can malfunction is to be physically broke.
On my Escape hybrid, the braking system is controlled by a computer. When you wish to stop, the computer tells the generator to engage and take power from the wheels using input from an accelerometer to vary the level of "braking". If you want to stop even faster, the actual friction brakes are brought into play until it is just friction brakes as you come to a complete stop. There are safeguards that allow you to depend on the friction brakes if there is a computer failure. How fail safe this is, I don't know though I've heard of no problems even with hundreds of thousands per vehicle of taxicab service fleet miles.
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Old 02-27-2010, 09:12 AM   #230
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I have to wonder that, too. All modern cars are so computerized; it's scary.

With all the troubles, I just hope they don't use more computerizinig to overcompensate on future cares. I can see it now, A "Windows Vista like" gas pedal. (Do you want to accelerate? Are you sure you want to accelerate? Are you really sure?)

I admit, I'm exaggerating a bit, but too much computerization in cars leads to much confusion. Yes, it is scary.

I remember one time this was years ago (about 20 years ago) I was stopped by this older gentleman who had a brand new cadillac and said, "Can you do me a favor? Can you start my car for me? My wife bought this new car and it's too new and complicated, I can't start it."
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Old 02-27-2010, 09:28 AM   #231
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Any truth to the rumor that things are so bad at Toyota, that the 1959 Toyopet is being recalled for unintended acceleration
I am very leery of computerized controls and I think Toyota was both sloppy and dishonest in their handling of safety issues. But I cannot tell if they are any more so than the other companies. Stonewalling on the electronic failures may not get them in as much hotwater as it should, but allegations of withholding documents could really hurt them if they turn out to be true. Personally I'd like to see people in jail if they are found to have bribed regulators with lucrative job offers to ignore safety problems. That's evil.

My first thought about the (joke) recall of the 1959 model was what a great public relations idea. So many Toyotas are still on the road that they have to recall a 50 year old model. Now those are reliable cars.
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Old 02-27-2010, 10:17 AM   #232
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[QUOTE=easysurfer;907109]With the news now of a class action lawsuits and a possible cover up, one wonders how far Toytoa as a company will fall.


I've been wondering the exact same thing myself. Good thing I plan to keep my Toyota until it falls apart. It's an '02, but, because I haven't driven much the last 6 years, it has only 65K miles on it. Hoping I can get something close to another 150K or more out of it.

Toyota is running some really affective/effective tv ads now. Common workers saying how they are just like everyone else and all their families drive Toyotas, so this is just a glitch in the system and they will solve it, etc. etc. etc. I believe they will solve it, but how much damage to the company will stick to it....and for how many years? This should be interesting.
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Old 02-27-2010, 11:54 AM   #233
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With all the troubles, I just hope they don't use more computerizinig to overcompensate on future cares. I can see it now, A "Windows Vista like" gas pedal. (Do you want to accelerate? Are you sure you want to accelerate? Are you really sure?)
I've thought cars have been over controlled by too many computers for many years. Most of the "advancements" in cars I think have been a response to the poor driving ability by the population. If you think about it, most people drive to and from work, maybe to the mall and the grocery store, and maybe to some form of entertainment on the weekend. Generally most people drive in the same type of conditions all the time, so when they are faced with emergency situations or something out of the ordinary they are unable to react quickly enough or in the correct manner. I'm not knocking most drivers. It is just a simple fact that most people are not good drivers, simply because they don't have the time to practice the skills to make them good drivers. Most people took some type of drivers ed when they were teens, then maybe a defensive driver course when they were a bit older, but that is the extent of their training.
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Turns Out My Dealer Has A Few Internal Communication Problems
Old 03-01-2010, 06:22 PM   #234
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Turns Out My Dealer Has A Few Internal Communication Problems

Today I took my 2007 Toyota Tacoma into the dealer for the "sticky accelerator" replacement set up by their service appointment gal. But the service guy says I don't have a problem, no Toyota Tacoma has had this problem. Two guys, the service manager and the service technician said if I had just logged onto the internet and plugged in my VIN, I would have known this. The assumption on their part was that all their customers should be internet saavy. They also assumed that all owners had heard about, or read about the problem, so they have never bothered to directly communicate by phone, email or mail, about the still unresolved floor mat problem. (No, they were weren't expecting a soluction any time soon, and yes I still should leave it off.) No apology for wasting my time, today, or the misinformation given to me by their own staff. "Go away, punk, we are tired of pissy customers."
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Old 03-02-2010, 12:31 AM   #235
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Old 03-02-2010, 08:29 AM   #236
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Today I took my 2007 Toyota Tacoma into the dealer for the "sticky accelerator" replacement set up by their service appointment gal. But the service guy says I don't have a problem, no Toyota Tacoma has had this problem. Two guys, the service manager and the service technician said if I had just logged onto the internet and plugged in my VIN, I would have known this. The assumption on their part was that all their customers should be internet saavy. They also assumed that all owners had heard about, or read about the problem, so they have never bothered to directly communicate by phone, email or mail, about the still unresolved floor mat problem. (No, they were weren't expecting a soluction any time soon, and yes I still should leave it off.) No apology for wasting my time, today, or the misinformation given to me by their own staff. "Go away, punk, we are tired of pissy customers."
To be fair, the service guys are working non stop on this issue.
You received no notice indicating your vehicle has an issue, did no research (since you are posting here I assume you could also check online)?
I do agree that the receptionist should have checked. Did you ask about the floor mats, your Tacoma is listed under that recall.
So YOU wasted your time, not them. No, they failed to catch it, but you made the appointment without receiving any notification other than the media hysteria.
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Old 03-02-2010, 08:44 AM   #237
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Did I miss part of this. Elderdude has a service appointment set up by his dealer. He brings in the truck. Service guy says his truck isn't listed for recall for THAT problem, gave him a hard time about not doing more internet research, then didn't do anything about the recall that does include his truck. Does not sound like dealer handled it very well.

Toyota service folks may be working hard on fixing things, but TOYOTA is the one responsible for the issues and the recalls (and apparently other issues not yet recalled, but soon to be). Doesn't give them a license to be rude to customers.
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Old 03-02-2010, 08:54 AM   #238
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Re-reading Elderdude's first post above and then the report of the rude service clearly shows it was the dealer who made the appointment for the wrong problem after ED contacted them about the floormat recall, which his car's VIN was included in.

Not good, Toyota.
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Old 03-02-2010, 11:05 AM   #239
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To be fair, the service guys are working non stop on this issue.
You received no notice indicating your vehicle has an issue, did no research (since you are posting here I assume you could also check online)?
I do agree that the receptionist should have checked. Did you ask about the floor mats, your Tacoma is listed under that recall.
So YOU wasted your time, not them. No, they failed to catch it, but you made the appointment without receiving any notification other than the media hysteria.
Perhaps reading Elderdude's post at post#225 might shed a little different light on the dealer visit.
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Old 03-02-2010, 12:00 PM   #240
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Perhaps reading Elderdude's post at post#225 might shed a little different light on the dealer visit.
If I made an error and the dealer did send notification, I deeply apologize.
However, from the beggining of what Elderdude posted in #225:
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Originally Posted by Elderdude
I have been impatiently waiting for my notification from Toyota by mail or email of: first, the recall and second, a notice to bring it in for a fix. Last Wednesday, I tried to make an appointment on line with my dealer requesting a fix for the recall...
The only thing here I see is that he was impatiently awaiting the notice, and then tried to make the appointment.
I get the impression that he tried to make the appointment without getting a notice.
Then, there appears to be a screw up on the dealer's part, when they called him and asked him when he wanted to bring it in for the "sticky accelerator issue". If he had the 'floormat issue' he should have told them on the phone that he was calling about the floormat issue, not the sticky accelerator issue.

Granted, the dealer could have handled this better, and should have made should not have made the error. But Elderdude was told what they were looking at ON THE PHONE before he ever went to the dealer.

So while, imo, the dealer is not without fault, neither is elderdude.
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