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Old 02-01-2010, 02:33 AM   #81
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Everyone on this forum keeps on talking about floor mats. Granted, the floor mats sounds like they do bunch up and that's not a good thing, but if the floor mats were the problem, I don't see why they would stop manufacturing the cars and replacing pedals. I did own a car that actually had an accelerator pedal sticking problem back in the day (We bought a crappy used Skylark) and I get the feeling the problem with Toyota is somethign similar. They were saying on a TV news the other day that Toyota released some statement saying to put your car in neutral when this happens..

The last two cars I've owned are Honda's (both Accords) and the car before then was a Nissan (Sentra). I test drove both Camry and Accord ( in 1991) and ended up buying an Accord (I felt the Camry's steering wheel was too sensitive for me.) I didn't shop around when I was ready for a new car in 2004, since I really liked my first Accord. (BTW, my friends is still driving my 1991 Accord. It must have over 200,000 miles on it by now.) I will probably buy another Accord when it's time.
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Old 02-01-2010, 02:37 AM   #82
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Someone told me that this is happening only to Toyota cars manufactured in the US and the cars manufactured in Japan (driven by the people in Japan, I assume) do not have the same issue. Does anybody know if it's true?
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Old 02-01-2010, 02:42 AM   #83
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I've found some more detailed information here:
asahi.com(朝日新聞社):Pedal problem ignored in 2007 - English

Evidenly, Toyota knew there was a problem in 2007 and they ignored it...
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Old 02-01-2010, 09:07 AM   #84
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Everyone on this forum keeps on talking about floor mats. Granted, the floor mats sounds like they do bunch up and that's not a good thing, but if the floor mats were the problem, I don't see why they would stop manufacturing the cars and replacing pedals.

There are two separate recalls . The first is for the floor mats and the second is for the sticky pedal .Some models are only being recalled for the floor mat and some are being recalled for both problems . Toyota does charge extra for the floor mats . I paid $100 ten years ago so I'm sure it's more now . The interesting thing is only the drivers side mat bunches . The rest stay perfectly flat so sometimes I would substitute one of the other mats in the driver's side and it would start to bunch immediately so I finally just tossed the mat.
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Old 02-01-2010, 11:00 AM   #85
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I have a 99 Camry and the hook worked well to keep the drivers side floor mat in position. The hook broke a few years back and now the mat bunches up. I also paid extra to have the Toyota floor mats when I bought the car.
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Old 02-01-2010, 12:15 PM   #86
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I bet the floor mats that bunch do not have the plastic 'pin cushion' on the bottom.. my Chevy mats did not bunch.. and did not move.. and did not have a clip to hold them... but they were thick... and the bottom was plastic pins that were pushed into the carpet that was there..

If you have carpet on carpet, they tend to slide all the time... so when you are exiting the car and your right leg is pushing itself out, you push the mat toward the gas pedel or center of the car... so it is bunched..

I think floor mat problems are more than what is reported... my mother had an accident because of a stuck pedal with floor mats... but it was caused when a service man put it back in ON TOP of the accelerator...

I have had a sticking pedal on another car... but was able to put my foot under the pedal and pull it up with my foot... no major problem... but did throw out the mat...


As to the poster who thinks 19 deaths is not enough to worry about... because of all the other people who die for other reasons.... Let's say that instead of this being a stuck pedal... you would go out and start your car and it BLEW UP... killing everyone in the car... I mean, big explosion... would that make a difference in your thinking I mean, if only 19 people have died because their car blew up... who cares...

I would think if that happened... NOBODY would buy a Toyota... because you would not want to take the chance of your car blowing up... no matter how small the change it would be you... because if it was YOU, then you are dead... and I do not have to worry about that small chance with a Honda, or Ford, or Chevy etc. etc...
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Old 02-01-2010, 01:20 PM   #87
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As to the poster who thinks 19 deaths is not enough to worry about... because of all the other people who die for other reasons.... Let's say that instead of this being a stuck pedal... you would go out and start your car and it BLEW UP... killing everyone in the car... I mean, big explosion... would that make a difference in your thinking I mean, if only 19 people have died because their car blew up... who cares...

I would think if that happened... NOBODY would buy a Toyota... because you would not want to take the chance of your car blowing up... no matter how small the change it would be you... because if it was YOU, then you are dead... and I do not have to worry about that small chance with a Honda, or Ford, or Chevy etc. etc...
I didn't say that 19 deaths was nothing to worry about. Any death is one death too many. Toyota has a real problem with sticky accelarator pedals and should fix it ASAP. Absolutely and unequivocally. What I said was that the incidence of fatalities is still minuscule yet the media is fueling an unwarranted panic among Toyota drivers. Hey, I drive a Toyota and I could be dead tomorrow if my gas pedal gets stuck. Sure it would suck to be me. But I still drive my car. With no fear. If one Toyota out of the millions currently on the road blew up killing 19 people, I would still drive my car. With no fear. I would still have a better chance of getting killed by some a**hole running a red light than by my Toyota running out of control or blowing up. So should I stop driving?

If I wanted to live a risk-free life, I would lock myself at home, cut the water (mold risk) and electricity (fire risk), and even then I would not be able to avoid tornadoes, burglaries and heart attacks. Life is full of risks. You weight each one. Some are worth taking, others not. Driving a Toyota despite 19 people dying over 10 years because of sticky gas pedals, is a risk I am willing to take. Standing in front of a F5 tornado and hoping for the best is not.

You want to buy a Honda, Ford or Chevy so you won't have to worry about the possibility of your gas pedal getting stuck, no matter how remote... Well, Ford Explorers used to roll over and kill people. Ford Pintos used to blowup upon impact. And now they found out that some Hondas can catch on fire. So what are you gonna do? Are those risks more acceptable to you?
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Old 02-01-2010, 04:18 PM   #88
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I didn't say that 19 deaths was nothing to worry about. Any death is one death too many. Toyota has a real problem with sticky accelarator pedals and should fix it ASAP. Absolutely and unequivocally. What I said was that the incidence of fatalities is still minuscule yet the media is fueling an unwarranted panic among Toyota drivers. Hey, I drive a Toyota and I could be dead tomorrow if my gas pedal gets stuck. Sure it would suck to be me. But I still drive my car. With no fear. If one Toyota out of the millions currently on the road blew up killing 19 people, I would still drive my car. With no fear. I would still have a better chance of getting killed by some a**hole running a red light than by my Toyota running out of control or blowing up. So should I stop driving?

If I wanted to live a risk-free life, I would lock myself at home, cut the water (mold risk) and electricity (fire risk), and even then I would not be able to avoid tornadoes, burglaries and heart attacks. Life is full of risks. You weight each one. Some are worth taking, others not. Driving a Toyota despite 19 people dying over 10 years because of sticky gas pedals, is a risk I am willing to take. Standing in front of a F5 tornado and hoping for the best is not.

You want to buy a Honda, Ford or Chevy so you won't have to worry about the possibility of your gas pedal getting stuck, no matter how remote... Well, Ford Explorers used to roll over and kill people. Ford Pintos used to blowup upon impact. And now they found out that some Hondas can catch on fire. So what are you gonna do? Are those risks more acceptable to you?
The media is on it because there is not much else right now... if we get some good OJ type story... well, people will move on and Toyota will be OK..

But history shows that ignoring it does not work. Yes, the Ford Explorer rolled, the Pinto blew up (you haven't see any new pintos have you.. but then again, the Pinto was not that much worse than other cars... but there were memos stating that the cost of fixing the problem was more than paying for the crispy people), the Suzuki Samari also rolled, Audi had acceleration problems... but all companies took a hit on sales... Audi almost went out of business...

And how many people died because of the spiked Tylenol? Not many... but if it was ignored, the company would go out of business... yes, the risk is small... and I would not worry about driving a Toyota... but it is a risk that should not be there and they need to fix it...
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A question no sane person is asking
Old 02-01-2010, 09:23 PM   #89
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A question no sane person is asking

Okay, here's another question for the quantitatively inclined: For the average Toyota owner, is it more dangerous to drive to the dealer and get this fixed or to continue to drive the car? A back-of-the-envelope analysis follows.

Factors:
- US automobile death rate in 2006: 1.41 fatalities per 100 million vehicle miles traveled (Source: NHTSA vehicle crash stats for 2006)
- Assumed: The average driver has to drive 30 miles (total round trip) from his home to the dealer for this repair (Source--personal estimate)
- Risk of a fatal car wreck for the average driver taking this drive: 1: 4.23E-7
- The risk per mile from leaving the pedals unmodified is uncertain, but several sources (including Reuters) give the total number of deaths due to "sudden acceleration" as 19. This is up from an earlier estimate of 5. This includes fatalities due to both the accelerator pedal problem and the floor mat problem. A WAG on the number of vehicle-miles driven by all affected vehicles: let's estimate their average years on the road as 2.5 (see the recall list: One model was fitted with the suspect accelerator pedal in 2005, but most were fitted starting much later). The average car in the US is driven about 11,000 miles/yr . So, these affected vehicles were driven a total of about 6.325 x10E10 miles. If 19 people died due to the stuck accelerators, that's a rate of 3.0xE-10 deaths per mile (that's 1/1400th of the normal vehicle death rate from all causes per mile, and represents the additional risk you'd take by not getting this problem fixed. Miniscule).
- The average length of time new owners keep a car appears to be about 6 years (Source). If these owners, on average, have driven their cars for 2.5 years, then on average they'd be expected to have them for an average of 3.5 additional years. The risk of death due to the pedal defect during this time is 3.5 (years) x 11000 (avg miles per year) x 3.0E-10 (death rate per mile) = 1.16E-5.

So, based on the very uncertain estimates above, if you are average, the risk of death from the pedal problem is about is about 27 times greater than the risk of being killed in a vehicle crash while going to have the problem fixed.

Note: the calculations above disregard the risk of death to other vehicle occupants in all cases, and the risk of death to subsequent owners of unmodified vehicles. But, hey, they could drive the cart to the dealer and get the fix done themselves.

Now, if we figure that an hour spent in the dealer's waiting room is an hour of human life that has been wasted, and given the very low risk of death from runaway vehicles, I'll bet we'd find that getting this fixed results in a net loss of human life-hours compared to doing nothing--but that's a fun extra-credit calculation for another day.
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Old 02-01-2010, 09:35 PM   #90
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Well, Samclem, you are only looking at the risk of death. Granted, that risk is small, but how about close calls? How about the drivers who escaped death, but got some unwanted excitement, soiled their pants and had their day ruined? I suspect the number is higher than 19.

I tell ya, if I were a Toyota owner, I would take it to the dealer to have the problem fixed.
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Old 02-01-2010, 09:48 PM   #91
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Well, Samclem, you are only looking at the risk of death. Granted, that risk is small, but how about close calls? How about the drivers who escaped death, but got some unwanted excitement, soiled their pants and had their day ruined? I suspect the number is higher than 19.
Right, but I figured the same ratio of close calls, nonlethal injuries, struck pedestrians, etc would happen due to other causes on the way to the dealer, so the underlying 27:1 ratio wouldn't be materially affected.

But, I agree with you. Even if the numbers had shown it to be more dangerous to drive to the dealer for the fix than to live with the tiny extra risk from this defect, I'd go get it fixed, too. Because if you were unlucky and the pedal stuck in a year or so, it would be dang hard to explain to any survivors in the ICU that you'd done the logical thing.
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Old 02-01-2010, 09:51 PM   #92
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Now, if we figure that an hour spent in the dealer's waiting room is an hour of human life that has been wasted
Good point, if you plan to sit there. I have done that and the dealer's waiting room provides an exercise in enduring the tortures of the netherworld as far as I'm concerned.

If my Venza is ever recalled*, Frank will follow me to the dealer (about 0.25 miles from his house) and we will go have a nice lunch or something, and then when they call my cell phone number he will bring me back to pick it up. Pretty painless.

He has done this before when I had to leave my Solara at the dealer's for various reasons. Yes, he is a keeper.

*It probably won't be recalled, since that model is only on the floor mat recall list and mine has firmly anchored aftermarket floor mats.
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Old 02-01-2010, 11:41 PM   #93
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If it were me.... I would not hurry up to get it there... I think I could live with the risk involved... and get it fixed the next time I am at the dealer for an oil change or some other item that needs fixing...


I usually do that on other recalls....
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Old 02-02-2010, 07:59 AM   #94
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There was a crude drawing in this AM's paper showing the suspected problem - excessive friction between two gears in the pedal mechanism (maybe a rack and pinion - hard to tell). I'd shoot it with WD40.
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Old 02-02-2010, 09:13 AM   #95
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There was a crude drawing in this AM's paper showing the suspected problem
This is the problem with life in a world comprised mostly of technical and scientific illiterates, the news doesn't have the technical details that an engineer would like to see. I'm sure a close-up clear diagram of what the fix is can be found, but it isn't shown on the nightly news.

Carl Sagan: We have designed our civilization based on science and technology and at the same time arranged things so that almost no one understands anything at all about science and technology. This is a clear prescription for disaster.
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Old 02-02-2010, 09:51 AM   #96
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Carl Sagan: We have designed our civilization based on science and technology and at the same time arranged things so that almost no one understands anything at all about science and technology. This is a clear prescription for disaster.
Actually, it's a sinister plot so the computer nerds and techno-geeks can take over the world and get all the hot chicks...

Carl Sagan proved this theorem...
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Old 02-02-2010, 09:53 AM   #97
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Thanks Moemg. This is my first Toyota ever. I hope I didn't jinx the brand!
Is that an SE model with aftermarket wheels?
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Old 02-02-2010, 10:31 AM   #98
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This is a clear prescription for disaster.
Sounds like social Darwinism to me, as well as a solution to your overpopulation concerns...
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Old 02-02-2010, 10:36 AM   #99
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Is that an SE model with aftermarket wheels?
Actually it's a LE model and I picked it off the lot as is. I really liked the SE's look but, given the topography of my driveway, I was concerned with the low skirting in the SE. So I decided to go with a sporty-looking LE instead.
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Old 02-02-2010, 10:51 AM   #100
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I think I am going to go for a joy-ride in my new Venza in a little while. FIREdreamer, I hope you are having fun with your beautiful new Camry as well!
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