Suspending Sales? Wow!

[mickeyd]

Never seen this happen before.

Toyota Motor Co. said Tuesday it was suspending U.S. sales of eight recalled models to fix accelerator pedals that stick, the latest quality problem to confront the world's No. 1 automaker.
The "stop sale" involves a significant portion of Toyota's fleet and some of its most popular vehicles, including the Camry and Corolla. As part of the plan, Toyota is halting production at five manufacturing facilities for the week of Feb. 1 "to assess and coordinate activities." There are 2.3 million vehicles involved in the recall, which was announced last week.
"This action is necessary until a remedy is finalized," said Bob Carter, Toyota's group vice president and general manager.
The Japanese automaker said the sales suspension includes the 2009-2010 RAV4, the 2009-2010 Corolla, the 2007-2010 Camry, the 2009-2010 Matrix, the 2005-2010 Avalon, the 2010 Highlander, the 2007-2010 Tundra and the 2008-2010 Sequoia.

Toyota halts US sales of 8 recalled models - Yahoo! Finance=

 

[Meadbh]

It's jidoka on a massive scale:

Stopping The Line

 

[FIREd]

I just bought a 2010 Camry. Oops!

 

[brewer12345]

Somehow the $260 I spent this past weekend to have my 7 year old car fixed doesn't seem so bad...

 

[Orchidflower]

Yeah, I read that earlier tonight and was wondering how the salespeople at Toyota were taking it. Wish one was one the board to ask...

 

[Cruisinthru]

It all sounds like the plot of a bad movie. The US automakers are struggling, and their toughest competitor has a very bad problem with their product line and suspends sales. Public confidence takes a nose dive due to all the horrible speculations about product safety. US automakers make big come back.
I can't help but wonder who the bad guys are that tampered with Toyota's designs. And I hope they get a good actor to play the bad guy. Just kidding of course!

I drive a 2005 Avalon and I sure hope that find out how to fix the problem soon. I also have a Toyota Yaris. That's the car the neighbors laugh at, but gosh, it hasn't been recalled yet! I think I will drive the Yaris more in the next few weeks.

 

[tmm99]

This is huge.

When is the last time we ever had a problem this huge in the auto industry?

I actually have had an accelerator pedal sticking happen to me. We bought a used Skylark (can't remember what year) in 1982 or 1983. I didn't know what to do when the pedal got stuck so I pressed on the brake while trying to decide what to do. My tires were smoking. Good thing there weren't any cars in front of me. I can't remember what I ended up doing though. I might have used my emergency brake, put the car in neutral maybe. I somehow parked my car on the side of the road. I was shaking all over from the terror of it all.

 

[thefed]

It's not going to be as big a deal as you think. They are being overcautious, and this will NOT be the demise of Toyota.

 

[travelover]

Having w*rked as an engineer for MegaMotors, I can't imagine how much pressure these engineers are under. When we had even a minor glitch that delayed a single model for even a day, the pressure was immense and the work nonstop. Not only do you need to find a solution, you need to prove that that solution is robust and will not screw up anything else on the car, like emissions, fuel economy, crash performace, durability, etc, etc.

 

[Ronstar]

As a passenger, I always thought the accelerator surging problem in my MIL's 2008 Corolla was due to MIL's age and driving ability. I might have to give it a test drive to see if the problem could be the car and not her.

 

[Nords]

It's jidoka on a massive scale

I think Toyota had to choose between the "Intel Pentium flaw" approach or the "J&J poisoned Tylenol" approach.

Or maybe it's more appropriate to compare it to "Ford's flaming cruise controller" tactics...

 

[Texas Proud]

I think this is going to hurt their long term sales, not just their short term..

I would say Honda, Hyundai and Mazda will sell more... not sure how much more that would have bought a Toyota would go to Chevy or Ford...

I am surprised Chrysler can sell one car... but I bet I might hear from someone on the board why they bought one...

 

[ziggy29]

I think this is going to hurt their long term sales, not just their short term..

I would say Honda, Hyundai and Mazda will sell more... not sure how much more that would have bought a Toyota would go to Chevy or Ford...

Hard to say. It remains to be seen to what extent this erodes the pervasive mindset that "Japanese = safer and more reliable". Those whose faith in Japan isn't shaken overall may consider a Honda, for example. Those who are starting to wonder if the emperor might be more scantily clad than they originally thought might re-consider Detroit, particularly Ford for a number of factors (improving quality, no bailout backlash, et cetera).

 

[TooFrugal]

Three cheers to the LA Times and other news agencies that didn't let Toyota and the NHTSA sweep this under the rug like they tried to do for years.

Runaway Toyota cases ignored - Los Angeles Times

We looked at Toyotas when we needed to buy a new car recently, but ended up getting a Subaru because of articles like the one above.

 

[TooFrugal]

Those who are starting to wonder if the emperor might be more scantily clad than they originally thought might re-consider Detroit, particularly Ford for a number of factors (improving quality, no bailout backlash, et cetera).

On Consumer Reports, Ford actually has very good repair records these days.

 

[samclem]

It's the Audi "sudden acceleration" thing all over again. Once the issue comes up, the reports flow in, the re-appraisal of previous reports starts, and it is damn near impossible to cut through the sensationalism to find and implement a fix, harder still to get the public to accept it.

This is all about a defect in the design of the accelerator pedal, right? That doesn't sound like a huge engineering effort will be required to fix it. And Toyota made this decision on their own (after considering all tyhe pros and cons)--good for them.

Hopefully they'll also modify the fuel control circuitry to command reduced throttle settings when the brakes are applied. If they do, I think they'll be ahead of other automakers.

 

[W2R]

Yeah, I read that earlier tonight and was wondering how the salespeople at Toyota were taking it. Wish one was one the board to ask...

I didn't know about it when I bought my Venza yesterday (which isn't one of the affected models). My Toyota dealership only had 1-2 other buyers while I was there from 2:00-5:30 PM, and at least one was having credit/money problems and looked like she was giving up. I thought the lack of customers was just because it was a Tuesday afternoon and not Saturday. My salesman seemed really happy when I wrote out the check, though!

Maybe I'm wrong but I think that most Toyota customers are extremely loyal, and will just wait to buy (if they can) and go back to Toyota as soon as the issues are fixed.

 

[Leonidas]

This is all about a defect in the design of the accelerator pedal, right? That doesn't sound like a huge engineering effort will be required to fix it. And Toyota made this decision on their own (after considering all tyhe pros and cons)--good for them.

I'm not sure about all that. We had an earlier thread on this and I seem to remember that Toyo claimed there was no series of problems other than cars with the wrong floor mats and driver's who couldn't figure out how to fix it. DOT or NHTSA or whoever went along with that until the death of the CHP officer and his family put this story on the front pages everywhere.

The government, which had been following the Toyo line of reasoning - did a very public 180 - leaving the mfgr lonely in the dock by itself

I think Toyo just faced up to the reality when they were forced to.

 

[Moemg]

What I wonder is how do they know which vehicles are excluded ? Since the Solara was basically a sporty Camry but it is excluded from the recall . I love my Toyota but I'm not sure if I'll stick with them after this incident . That article from the Los Angeles Times has me pretty spooked .

 

[FIREd]

I don't regret buying my Camry one bit. I used to have a VW so I am used to recalls... (just got another notice in the mail last week). I am not at all worried about Toyota's actions. Now that Toyota is the big dog on the block, greater scrutiny is to be expected. I have seen the same kind of virulent attacks against Apple and Google recently. It comes with the territory.

 

[Texas Proud]

Seems Toyota is not the good samaritain some here think... even though there are some hints they did go beyond what was asked...

"The Obama administration said it pressed Toyota to protect consumers who own vehicles under recall and to stop building new cars with the problem.
Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood told WGN Radio in Chicago that "the reason Toyota decided to do the recall and to stop manufacturing was because we asked them to."

And now the blame game starts:

"The supplier is CTS Corp., based in Elkhart, Ind., and the problem part was manufactured at its plant in Ontario, Canada, according to a report Toyota handed to the U.S. National Highway Traffic Safety Administration last week."

Here is the article...

Toyota US sales halt deals blow to image, earnings - Yahoo! News

 

[clifp]

I haven't been following this case very closely since I've never owned a Toyota (Honda, Mazada guy). Only my mom has one.

The LA Times article was chilling and reinforced a pattern I've seen recently about regulators. First we have the SEC ignoring repeated concerns about Bernie Maddox, and also naked short selling. Then we have the Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac regulators issuing a report saying that Fannie and Freddie were well capitalized. Just weeks before Morgan Stanley (at the John Paulson's request ) conducted an investigation that were actually insolvent for the tune of 50-200 billion. Now we have the NHTSA failing in a spectacular fashion.

One of the argument why financial regulators failed is that the pay is some much better in the banks and Wall St for the most part the smart guys went to Wall St and others went to work for the government. I don't think you can make the same argument about the folks who work for the NHTSA. I would think compared to the auto industry the government job offers comparable pay, slightly better benefits, and vastly better security.

 

[brewer12345]

I would hate to be within an organizational mile of this mess. Lincoln said that "the path to success is broad enough for two to walk abreast," meaning credit can always be shared. When it comes to spreading the blame for an eff up of such galactic proportions, I get a mental image of Civil War era soldiers forming a line and slowly walking toward a guy with a Gatling gun.

 

[TooFrugal]

Now we have the NHTSA failing in a spectacular fashion.

One of the argument why financial regulators failed is that the pay is some much better in the banks and Wall St for the most part the smart guys went to Wall St and others went to work for the government.

I think part of the problem with Wall Street is that the government workers want to end up at the Wall Street firms so to take a hard line with any financial firms means shooting down future job prospects.

I don't know what the NHTSA iproblems are but I think the lack of action on their part over so many years is appalling and as big an issue as the recall itself.

 

[Leonidas]

The fatal crash in California involved a Lexus, and so did many of the other accidents in which uncontrollable acceleration was experienced. But only Toyotas (not Lexii) are being recalled. Would love to hear the explanation of that one.

There is something just a little stinky on this recall though. Last year a Lexus owner vigorously pursued a mandatory recall after having an out of control acceleration incident. The same NHTSA investigative engineer who looked into the California fatality looked at that guy's car as well. NHTSA's report showed all sorts of tests that they said were done and they were unable to recreate the problem, as did Toyota say at the time as well. The end result was a recall regarding the floor mats (which were involved in the California case). But within days of the California crash NHTSA started making noises like there was something else wrong, and Toyota appeared to be twisting in the wind a little in their reaction.

I wonder what was different that made NHTSA distance itself from backing Toyota's claim that it was all about floor mats. Either they discovered new evidence or they realized that they had not done enough in the earlier investigation are the only things I can think of.

Whichever the case is, or something else even, I'm not very impressed by the lack of clarity on exactly what is wrong and that old standby, "who knew what and when did they know it."

Edit to add: The vultures are already flying overhead.

Hoping to capitalize on the problems facing Toyota and its recalls, GM will offer a monthlong incentive to Toyota and Lexus owners. The move comes as a response to “thousands” of calls and e-mails to dealers from Toyota owners asking for help (believe it or not).

The incentive runs through the end of Feb. and will offer the following:

* Those who choose to lease a vehicle may waive three payments for up to a total of $1,000.
* Qualifying customers who are financing a vehicle purchase can receive 0 percent financing for up to 60 months.
* Cash buyers can receive $1,000 off their purchase.

According to GM spokesman Tom Henderson, the incentive applies to GMC, Buick, Cadillac and Chevrolet vehicles.