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Old 03-11-2011, 12:27 AM   #21
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i say lock this sob up now before he hurts someone. it is a well known fact that people that are serial killers abused, tortured and killed animals, it only escalates.
This is an excellent statistical analysis! You should become an expert witness!
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Old 03-11-2011, 07:30 AM   #22
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Uh, not when I was 19 years old and surely not on a hamster.
Agreed.

It was another time (1967), but I left "home" (no, it really wasnít) when I turned 19 and never returned. When you're in the position of being an adult (even though it was considerd age 21 in those days), you act as one.

Today's "kids"? They don't measure up at all in the "responsibility" category, IMHO.

I applaud the parents in what they did, in this case.
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Old 03-11-2011, 07:53 AM   #23
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I applaud the parents in what they did, in this case.
Can't you think of a better way to help your kids than subject them to a potentially life destroying felony charge for an obnoxious teen-aged action? I grant that this was cruel but does it merit destroying her future? That is why I compared it to parents calling the cops when they find a stash of drugs in the kid's drawer. It strikes me that there are better ways to deal with things like this than relying on authorities who do not have your best interests or your child's in mind.
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Old 03-11-2011, 08:10 AM   #24
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Can't you think of a better way to help your kids than subject them to a potentially life destroying felony charge for an obnoxious teen-aged action?
This was not a prank, and not knowing the entire story I would venture that there were previous actions that precluded this occurrence (yeah, been there). It probably did not just start/stop with one occurrence (such as rumbling of a volcano before it erupts).

It could be because of my age, and my upbringing. My parents followed the guidance of "spare the rod and spoil the child" - the same "rule" that was followed in school by my teachers, the penguins (sorry - nuns). Neither "spared the rod". How can we raise our children without setting expectations and limits on their actions? It's the same as if you have a tomato plant but fail to attach it to a stake (e.g. "norms of normal manners/expectations") that it falls to the ground, and the tomatoes rot? Without expectations and rules, we cannot expect our "children" (regardless of their age) to flourish.

I stand by my comment. If you don't agree? Well, you are entitled to your opinion. I’m not about to change mine...
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Old 03-11-2011, 09:00 AM   #25
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Yes, I know most people eat meat and wear leather. And cats, dogs and other animals eat other, smaller animals. This is not usually done done for pleasure, laughs or to make a point with someone they are upset with.
Ever seen a cat "play" with a catch for pleasure? Its not a solely human attribute.

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Those who like to watch or directly inflict pain and suffering on helpless life forms are very distrubing to me.
Agreed.
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Old 03-11-2011, 09:07 AM   #26
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Its also not well known, but true, that most animal abusers do not become murderers, especially serial killers. Growing up, some kids in my neighborhood would shoot birds and squirrels for "fun" with BB guns. Other kids ran over toads hanging out under street lamps with their bicycles. Others put innocent insects and worms on barbed metal hooks, and used them to entice fish to put these hooks in their mouths and suffer pain as they were reeled in towards shore to certain death... and the kids had fun doing it. They didn't end up with lives of crime, family abuse, etc. Animal abuse is one potential indicator, but not a set in stone indicator. The complete, overall picture of the person's actions and patterns are what need to be looked at. I set the woods on fire when I was a kid --- was just a kid doing something stupid with friends which got out of control. I didn't end up an arsonist nor do I enjoy lightning things up; I don't even care much for fireplaces! Got punished by my parents, a stern talk from the firefighters and that's all it took. These days I'd be locked up and sent to counseling.

Yeah, the kid f'd up, but we don't know the bigger picture, and there are better things to argue about on the Internet (well, I guess I'm guilty, as I'm part of this argument, lol).
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Old 03-11-2011, 09:09 AM   #27
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This reminds me of the guy who, several years ago, was involved in a minor car accident and grabbed a little dog out of the other car, throwing him into traffic so that he was run over.

This guy was sued by the dog owner and finally had to pay some amount in retribution.

Sad....sad stuff.
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Old 03-11-2011, 09:50 AM   #28
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We have had them cute little hamster critters for pets in the past. It does make me cringe to think of one being hurt this way. I agree that it is disturbing whenever anyone deliberately participates or takes pleasure in animal abuse.

However, I think that sometimes our perspective gets out of balance. I do not have enough information to speculate on whether this was one of them, though the quote in the OP seemed more about the hamster than the girl and what may have driven her to this state of mind. In real life I'd like to save the hamster, but I'm more interested in saving Monique. I've no idea if a possible two year prison sentence is the best way to help her, but with the little info I have, I doubt it.

My apologies for appearing flippant earlier.
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Old 03-11-2011, 10:10 AM   #29
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I guess it disturbs me more that some people think that charging a 19yo with a FELONY is the right thing to do for cruelty to a hampster....

I am not saying that the act is OK... so don't jump on me for that.... but come on... a felony This will cause trouble for this girl for the rest of her life... sorry, killing a hampster is not worth destroying a person's life IMO...

Now... a misdemeanor... sure... a person that repeatedly does this... sure... but from the info given... not a chance for me to convict if I was on the jury.... they are over charging....
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Old 03-11-2011, 10:32 AM   #30
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Maybe on that day, that one parent finally said, "I've had enough".

We'll never know because that's not how the media works....it's all about sensationalism and at first glance charging a 19 year old with a felony for killing a hamster is pretty sensational.
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Old 03-11-2011, 11:02 AM   #31
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I am not saying that the act is OK... so don't jump on me for that.... but come on... a felony This will cause trouble for this girl for the rest of her life... sorry, killing a hampster is not worth destroying a person's life IMO...
In the absence of knowing "the rest of the story", I would agree. A criminal record is a scarlet letter these days, particularly when it comes to future employment. I think (again, without knowing all the details) it's "on its face" rather draconian to ruin someone's future over a hamster. Not to justify animal cruelty, of course, and I'm not saying it shouldn't be prosecuted, but this seems like rather extreme overkill (no pun intended).
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Old 03-11-2011, 11:15 AM   #32
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While a teen killing a hamster in a fit of anger is troublesome, the overreaction by the parents, ASPCA and the authorities is indicative of a larger social problem, IMO. What's next...indicting the CEO's of companies making bug spray for conspiracy to commit cruelty to animals? Felony charges for anyone caught using a mouse trap? Federal background check and a 5-day waiting period to buy a flyswatter? And what about those serial mole killers?
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Old 03-11-2011, 11:29 AM   #33
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In the absence of knowing "the rest of the story", I would agree. A criminal record is a scarlet letter these days, particularly when it comes to future employment. I think (again, without knowing all the details) it's "on its face" rather draconian to ruin someone's future over a hamster. Not to justify animal cruelty, of course, and I'm not saying it shouldn't be prosecuted, but this seems like rather extreme overkill (no pun intended).

My thinking... if there was a lot of 'the rest of the story', we would have read it also... if there was a history of her killing animals they probably would have reported it... look at Michael Vick...

But, the 'crime' does not fit what she is being charged...


Decided to do some research... 4 states don't even have felony charges at all..

Pet-Abuse.Com - Animal Cruelty Laws: Felony vs. Misdemeanor



Looking at some of the laws... it appears that some are pretty draconian.. with loopholes... I know in Texas lots of people shoot wild boar as often as they can... and it looks legal...

Stray Pet Advocacy
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Old 03-11-2011, 11:30 AM   #34
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.. not knowing the entire story I would venture that there were previous actions that precluded this occurrence ...I stand by my comment. If you don't agree? Well, you are entitled to your opinion. Iím not about to change mine...
.. no need to wait for the facts, your honor, the jury has reached it's decison.
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Old 03-11-2011, 11:38 AM   #35
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Hopefully, cooler heads will prevail, and the alleged teen will get off with a slap on the ass wrist...
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Old 03-11-2011, 12:25 PM   #36
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This reminds me of the guy who, several years ago, was involved in a minor car accident and grabbed a little dog out of the other car, throwing him into traffic so that he was run over.

This guy was sued by the dog owner and finally had to pay some amount in retribution.

Sad....sad stuff.


Makes me wonder what background someone has to do things like this? What a total lack of emotional control they have.

And, trust me when I say I had plenty of legitimate reasons when I was 19 to act out, but I would never, ever hurt a little defenseless animal or child or anyone really.

I hate to be so unforgiving here, but I think the Police should have gotten involved. This is really sick, sick behavior to choke a family pet like the hamster? Good gosh...horrible to me. If that were my child I'd be mortified.
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Old 03-11-2011, 01:37 PM   #37
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Felony charges for anyone caught using a mouse trap? Federal background check and a 5-day waiting period to buy a flyswatter? And what about those serial mole killers?
We live next to a large field grass field. In the winter we usually end up with a few mice sneaking into the warm house. Got three of them this year. Tried the "humane" traps and they don't work most of the time. When I use a conventional trap that mouse is dead and I know its not coming back in or breed more mice. Moles... we poisoned several of them... no guilty feelings here about it, good riddance to the pests putting holes in my yard which potentially twist or break someone's ankle!

I guess that makes me a bad person to some people. They can discuss it over a meal with meat.
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Old 03-11-2011, 01:41 PM   #38
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While a teen killing a hamster in a fit of anger is troublesome, the overreaction by the parents, ASPCA and the authorities is indicative of a larger social problem, IMO. What's next...indicting the CEO's of companies making bug spray for conspiracy to commit cruelty to animals? Felony charges for anyone caught using a mouse trap? Federal background check and a 5-day waiting period to buy a flyswatter? And what about those serial mole killers?
By a larger social problem, I assume you mean overzealous efforts by those involved in animal rescue. I agree that there has to be a rational way to deal with animal cruelty and abuse.

Having volunteered at our local animal shelter for many years, I've seen a lot of animal cruelty cases first hand. I'll spare everyone the gory details. You can't help but want to make the punishment severe enough to deter this kind of behavior. Especially after looking into the eyes of the furry victims.

The shelter I volunteer at is not "no kill". It can't be because, by law, it must take in every animal. Human health and well being is always put first. The shelter would never adopt out an animal that is agressive or dangerous. I understand that sad reality.

I support our Animal Control Officers who vigorously go after people who commit horrible acts of cruelty and hoard animals. With the awful cases these folks deal with, they have to have strong laws on the books to back up their efforts.

Felony charges for buying a mousetrap? No.
Felony charges for running a dog fighting operation or setting someone's pet cat on fire? Yes.
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Old 03-11-2011, 04:09 PM   #39
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As teenagers a lot of my friends and I used to go to the local dump ground and shoot rats for fun. I guess by today's standards we should all have felony records.
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Old 03-11-2011, 04:20 PM   #40
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As teenagers a lot of my friends and I used to go to the local dump ground and shoot rats for fun. I guess by today's standards we should all have felony records.
Only if you had them as pets, one is named Ben and your name is Danny ...
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