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Old 03-11-2011, 05:04 PM   #41
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There is a difference between killing animals because they can cause a health or safety concern, including the methods used to kill those animals, and torturing animals for the hell of it, and torturing and killing animals that are other people's property.

I have no problem with this being a felony if it's an offense that's happened before enough to warrant federal prosecution, or if the cost lost was high enough to warrant a federal offense, and if it isn't some serious mental issue or incredibly abnormal set of circumstances that caused this.

If it's a first time offense, then whatever charges would normally be filed for theft and destruction of property on top of animal cruelty doesn't seem excessive.

She's an adult. If she wants to throw some tantrum and act like a child, she gets to live with the consequences of what that gets you as an adult.
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Old 03-11-2011, 05:06 PM   #42
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By a larger social problem, I assume you mean overzealous efforts by those involved in animal rescue.
No, actually I meant that her folks are pushing their parenting problems onto society, the ASPCA was overzealous, and apparently the prosecutor needed something to do...but, increasingly in our society, when emotion meets common sense, emotion wins every time.

Kudos to you Purron for your animal rescue efforts, I applaud your compassion and commitment, and empathize with you having to make difficult decisions when it comes to problem animals.
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Old 03-11-2011, 05:32 PM   #43
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Maybe, just maybe, Andy Griffith could shed some wisdom on this issue.

Opie the Birdman...





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Old 03-11-2011, 05:36 PM   #44
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She's an adult. If she wants to throw some tantrum and act like a child, she gets to live with the consequences of what that gets you as an adult.
That is how the "authorities" look at it. That is why her father was an idiot to rely on them to discipline his daughter. Unless he is a bit of a nut job himself and enjoys toying with the chance that his daughter's life will be wrecked.
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Old 03-11-2011, 05:43 PM   #45
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That is how the "authorities" look at it. That is why her father was an idiot to rely on them to discipline his daughter. Unless he is a bit of a nut job himself and enjoys toying with the chance that his daughter's life will be wrecked.
And how far into her life does that get to go? Does she get to face consequences when she's 21 instead? 40? As long as it happens under daddy's roof, she's free of all legal ramifications forever?
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Old 03-11-2011, 06:04 PM   #46
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Only if you had them as pets, one is named Ben and your name is Danny ...
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Old 03-11-2011, 06:06 PM   #47
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Old 03-11-2011, 06:44 PM   #48
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And how far into her life does that get to go? Does she get to face consequences when she's 21 instead? 40? As long as it happens under daddy's roof, she's free of all legal ramifications forever?
We got a pas from the police when I was a kid but that doesn't seem to be the case today. If she gets busted on her own she's busted whether she is living with her parents or on her own. But busted by your idiot father at 20 or 40? That hurts. Serial killer, rapist - yes, turn them in. Hamster killer or pot smoker - no frigging way.
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Old 03-12-2011, 12:05 AM   #49
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seems too many people want to debate how many angels can dance on the head of a pin/how many people do things to hurt living things.

there is a huge difference between putting worms on a hook and killing a pet to be cruel to it. people that torture and kill animals, not trapping mice in traps or poisoning moles, often go on to torture and kill people. mass murders typically do start killing with animals when they are children. why can't people see this vs using ridiculous analogies that are not apropos?

i trap mice, voles and moles because they are pests but i don't catch them alive and torture them to death for the fun or thrill of it. seems people today have to find too many excuses for aberrant behavior which is no doubts why we have so much trouble using the death penalty. i don't live in texas but that state really has it's head screwed on straight when it comes to laws that other states have totally screwed up.

and of course yymv.
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Old 03-12-2011, 01:39 AM   #50
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seems too many people want to debate how many angels can dance on the head of a pin/how many people do things to hurt living things.

there is a huge difference between putting worms on a hook and killing a pet to be cruel to it. people that torture and kill animals, not trapping mice in traps or poisoning moles, often go on to torture and kill people. mass murders typically do start killing with animals when they are children. why can't people see this vs using ridiculous analogies that are not apropos?

i trap mice, voles and moles because they are pests but i don't catch them alive and torture them to death for the fun or thrill of it. seems people today have to find too many excuses for aberrant behavior which is no doubts why we have so much trouble using the death penalty. i don't live in texas but that state really has it's head screwed on straight when it comes to laws that other states have totally screwed up.

and of course yymv.
This begs the question.... what about people who hunt for sport?

The thing is... you see the comments as excuses for aberrant behavior. Don't demonize those who don't agree... it does not mean we (I) condone what happened. I don't excuse the behavior of this person who crushed this hamster to death, not in the least. What I have issue with is the felony charge based solely on the facts presented (which are slim), and far-fetched comments implying people like that will grow up to be serial killers.
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Old 03-12-2011, 06:13 AM   #51
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How many would call the authorities on their kid for this - knowing just the facts in the article, or irregardless of the particular facts? Would it matter if you knew felony charges would be brought? As mortified as I would be, I just cannot think I would do that.
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Old 03-12-2011, 06:27 AM   #52
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A felony count for killing a hamster? Wow, I hope they never find out what happens to rodents I find in my house. I might get the death penalty.
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Old 03-12-2011, 07:15 AM   #53
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Kinda reminds me of my nephew. When he was about 5 there was a huge toad hatch near a lake and we pointed out to him a beautiful, delicate little tiny toad and showed him how it was perfectly formed miniature of an adult. When we set it down, he stomped on it. He is now 42 years old, homeless and toothless. Coincidence? Maybe.
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Old 03-12-2011, 12:36 PM   #54
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Story time. I know a woman so sensitive she could not even step on a bug, and still cannot. Moles in her yard get to stay totally unmolested. She is as sweet and gentle as it would be possible to be, especialy toward defenseless animals, though she can kick the crap out of a man when she cares to.

She is 58, managed to get almost no money from a divorce from a very successful man, blew through a good sized inheritance from her parents mostly spent on her kid and her pets, and today she is broke looking forward to a low level job for the rest of her life. She is too idealistic to use the one outstanding skill she has - to find some hapless guy to take care of her and her causes.

Coincidence? I think not!

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Old 03-12-2011, 12:59 PM   #55
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How many would call the authorities on their kid for this - knowing just the facts in the article, or irregardless of the particular facts? Would it matter if you knew felony charges would be brought? As mortified as I would be, I just cannot think I would do that.

I would not call the authorities on my kids for that but after they received my punishment they would probably have wished I had chosen the authorities.
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Old 03-12-2011, 01:54 PM   #56
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She is too idealistic to use the one outstanding skill she has - to find some hapless guy to take care of her and her causes.
Someone 4 U? ...
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Old 03-12-2011, 03:55 PM   #57
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I would not call the authorities on my kids for that but after they received my punishment they would probably have wished I had chosen the authorities.
Not anymore, IMO. I doubt your punishment, "harsh" as it may have been, would leave a permanent record and put a scarlet letter on their foreheads marking them as unemployable for life.
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Old 03-13-2011, 09:02 AM   #58
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Reported in the New York Post:

March 12, 2011
Authorities are dropping all of the charges against the Brooklyn teen arrested for murdering the family hamster -- and the brother who dropped a dime on her couldn't be happier.

"I called the ASPCA on her for spite. I didn't think they'd go this far. I thought she'd do community service or get a fine," said Aaron Smith, 25.
Instead, his hot-tempered sibling Monique Smith, 19, was cuffed and hauled off on Tuesday and charged with felony and misdemeanor counts of animal cruelty, as well as endangering the welfare of a child.

Smith allegedly murdered Sweetie, the tragic hamster, in a fit of rage by twice slamming the critter to the floor.
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Old 03-13-2011, 09:30 AM   #59
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I think the dad is an idiot. It is like parents asking the police to help with their kids' drug problems. Prosecution on a felony charge is undoubtedly not what dad had in mind. There are better ways to deal with problem kids than calling "the authorities."

I'll bet dad is paying the lawyer for this fiasco.

Perhaps... but maybe not!

Some sort of intervention could be the best thing to happen to someone that is leaning toward going down the wrong path.

You are thinking like someone of means... what if you are uneducated and poor?


In this situation... apparently a sibling called the authorities.

9-Year-Old Called ASPCA About Sister's Hamster Slaughter: Gothamist
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Old 03-13-2011, 09:36 AM   #60
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Reported in the New York Post:

March 12, 2011
Authorities are dropping all of the charges against the Brooklyn teen arrested for murdering the family hamster -- and the brother who dropped a dime on her couldn't be happier.

"I called the ASPCA on her for spite. I didn't think they'd go this far. I thought she'd do community service or get a fine," said Aaron Smith, 25.
Instead, his hot-tempered sibling Monique Smith, 19, was cuffed and hauled off on Tuesday and charged with felony and misdemeanor counts of animal cruelty, as well as endangering the welfare of a child.

Smith allegedly murdered Sweetie, the tragic hamster, in a fit of rage by twice slamming the critter to the floor.
Good, sanity prevails.
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