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Texas and capital punishment
Old 03-26-2008, 05:18 PM   #1
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Texas and capital punishment

If someone needed to fry it was this nugget head.


Dad gets 25 years for microwaving baby - Crime & courts - MSNBC.com
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Old 03-26-2008, 06:29 PM   #2
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I've heard that in Texas they have a saying "That guy needed killin'.

Sure applies there.
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Old 03-26-2008, 08:56 PM   #3
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WTF? this is why i could never be a defense attorney...that poor baby...
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Old 03-26-2008, 09:34 PM   #4
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I like what Ron White has to say about this:

"In Texas we have the death penalty and WE USE IT” You come to Texas and kill someone, we’ll kill you back, in fact when other states are talking about abolishing the death penalty my state is puttin in an express lane, you kill some one and there are 3 or more eye witnesses, you go to the front of the line folks!"

I personally think there are many crimes where the penalty should be the release of the convicted criminal to the family of the victim.

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Old 03-26-2008, 09:45 PM   #5
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There should be a Bar-B-Que with that guy being the main course.
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Old 03-26-2008, 11:13 PM   #6
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Being someone who actually was on a jury with the death penalty..... I kind of have toned down my rhetoric.....

Even thought the guy was very cruel, it is not a capital crime... and to tell the truth I do not think it would have been if she had died.... you have to have some more to get there... but they might have 'found' something else to get over the hump...

You THEN have a problem that you have to say this guy is a future.... dang.. can't remember the term... say danger to society.... and I would say he is not... so no death sentence...
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Old 03-27-2008, 08:56 AM   #7
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Being someone who actually was on a jury with the death penalty..... I kind of have toned down my rhetoric.....

Even thought the guy was very cruel, it is not a capital crime...
Would you be comfortable elaborating a bit more? What did the guy do, etc.
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Old 03-27-2008, 09:02 AM   #8
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WTF? this is why i could never be a defense attorney...that poor baby...
I think it takes a special breed to be a defense attorney. I mean, I know the accused is entitled to a vigorous defense and is entitled to Constitutional protections, but I don't think I could do it. I can't imagine talking to my client and hearing (in private, protected by attorney-client privilege) that they did it, and still going in there and giving it all I had to get them acquitted.

Like I said, I respect that someone has to do it. But I couldn't live with myself knowing that I was working to secure the freedom of someone who admitted to doing some pretty terrible things.
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Old 03-27-2008, 12:34 PM   #9
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defense attorneys, honorable & required for democracy, are watchdogs of fascism which you can not fight without getting a little dirty.

as to punishment for someone who would microwave a baby, i have trouble enjoying life to the fullest just thinking that someone could do such a thing. if that guy was not already insane before, just imagine living with yourself after that.
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Old 03-27-2008, 12:56 PM   #10
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defense attorneys, honorable & required for democracy, are watchdogs of fascism which you can not fight without getting a little dirty.

as to punishment for someone who would microwave a baby, i have trouble enjoying life to the fullest just thinking that someone could do such a thing. if that guy was not already insane before, just imagine living with yourself after that.

i agree, many of my dear friends are defense attorneys - i just couldn't do it!

also, on your second point - i've had a cringe in my stomach since reading the article - the microwave was just one of the string of attacks on that poor baby...i can't wrap my head around it and the idea of putting a baby in there!

sometimes the ability of humans to impose cruelty on each other is amazing...
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Old 03-27-2008, 01:22 PM   #11
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defense attorneys, honorable & required for democracy, are watchdogs of fascism which you can not fight without getting a little dirty.
The ones I've asked "How can you defend this (insert vile crime here) creep and then go home and sleep?" all say about that same thing.

They are, for the most part - every occupational group has a few that embarrass the others- decent and honorable people who feel that they are helping to make the justice system work as it was designed to do.
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Old 03-27-2008, 03:52 PM   #12
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Would you be comfortable elaborating a bit more? What did the guy do, etc.
He killed his ex girlfriend and then walked outside and killed her daughter in front of her friends... then went looking to kill her older daughter, but did not find her....
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Old 03-28-2008, 03:11 AM   #13
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Being someone who actually was on a jury with the death penalty..... I kind of have toned down my rhetoric.....

Even thought the guy was very cruel, it is not a capital crime... and to tell the truth I do not think it would have been if she had died.... you have to have some more to get there... but they might have 'found' something else to get over the hump...

You THEN have a problem that you have to say this guy is a future.... dang.. can't remember the term... say danger to society.... and I would say he is not... so no death sentence...

X2

In the Texas case I served on, the victim was shot during a stick-up, apparently because he only had $8 in his wallet. Capital murder was the charge because the victim died during the commission of a specified felony, armed robbery.

After guilt was established, the jury was instructed to determine if defendant's conduct was deliberate and if he would probably remain violent. A “yes” to both questions meant a death sentence. A “no” to either or both meant a life prison term. A third question asked jurors if mitigating evidence they heard convinced them a life sentence would be more appropriate.

As bad as the microwave case is, it's definitely not a capital murder case.
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Old 03-28-2008, 07:39 AM   #14
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He killed his ex girlfriend and then walked outside and killed her daughter in front of her friends... then went looking to kill her older daughter, but did not find her....
It can get complicated. I did learn that the shades of gray are infinite, few things are black & white especially with tangled relationship issues like that.

More often than not the victim had it coming. Doesn't make it right, but it can be understandable.

But shooting the armed robbery victim because he didn't have enough money on him? No - that one needs to be shot.
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Old 03-28-2008, 07:54 AM   #15
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More often than not the victim had it coming. Doesn't make it right, but it can be understandable.
Am I reading this RIGHT?

I am sorry, but nobody 'had it coming' to be killed.. or should I say MURDERED.
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Old 03-28-2008, 08:17 AM   #16
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Am I reading this RIGHT?

I am sorry, but nobody 'had it coming' to be killed.. or should I say MURDERED.
Yes you are reading it right. "Dysfunctional" doesn't begin to describe some family structures. Children literally tortured/belittled/starved for their entire lives and then they get big enough to strike back. It's hard to believe or comprehend until you've seen it up close and dirty.

Also happens with battered spouses a lot, probably a foreign concept to most on this forum but it is amazing what some women (and men) will put up with. Court orders notwithstanding, they do not protect anyone from a determined aggressor who cares nothing for the consequences. So for them the best form of self-defense may be a preemptive strike, or so they perceive. Whether that perception is legitimate is a jury question.

Some people simply do not understand any form of persuasion more subtle than a 12 gauge.
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Old 03-28-2008, 11:15 AM   #17
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Yes you are reading it right. "Dysfunctional" doesn't begin to describe some family structures. Children literally tortured/belittled/starved for their entire lives and then they get big enough to strike back. It's hard to believe or comprehend until you've seen it up close and dirty.

Also happens with battered spouses a lot, probably a foreign concept to most on this forum but it is amazing what some women (and men) will put up with. Court orders notwithstanding, they do not protect anyone from a determined aggressor who cares nothing for the consequences. So for them the best form of self-defense may be a preemptive strike, or so they perceive. Whether that perception is legitimate is a jury question.

Some people simply do not understand any form of persuasion more subtle than a 12 gauge.

Uhhhhh.... WOW...
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Old 03-28-2008, 11:25 AM   #18
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So for them the best form of self-defense may be a preemptive strike, or so they perceive.
Wouldn't moving out be a less aggressive answer to this problem? What you are calling a pre-emptive strike is actually first degree murder.

Ha
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Old 03-28-2008, 11:28 AM   #19
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Wouldn't moving out be a less aggressive answer to this problem? What you are calling a pre-emptive strike is actually first degree murder.

Ha
Abuse does some pretty awful things to people mentally.
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Old 03-28-2008, 03:48 PM   #20
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Wouldn't moving out be a less aggressive answer to this problem? What you are calling a pre-emptive strike is actually first degree murder.

Ha
To a normal person in a normal environment you're correct. But perception is everything. Someone who is, shall we say, "mentally confused" from years of abuse perceives things differently. It actually may not occur to them that they have an opportunity to run. Happens a lot with battered spouses.

One sees that with kidnapping victims occasionally - they had what was in retrospect many clear opportunities to escape, but if they are so intimidated that they don't perceive those opportunities they won't even try.

To make it clear, I'm not defending murder or saying that it is acceptable. But almost everyone when backed into a sufficiently tight corner will fight back.

Ever see the movie "Eye of the Beholder"? It's from the '50's and deals with the issue of perception's accuracies and inaccuracies.
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