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Re: The 51'st state?
Old 04-20-2006, 08:14 PM   #61
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Re: The 51'st state?

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Yeah, and I bet the Texas residents who weren't U.S. citizens felt the same way that the native Hawaiians did...
The reason Mexico let Anglos in was because they couldn't get any decent Mexican to go to Texas. The number of non-Anglos in Texas was miniscule until the 1940's until jobs opened up here.

The Texas schools search deperately for Tejanos to highlight in the Texas history classes. The ones they find were fighting the same battle for independence that the Anglos were fighting in 1836. Santa Anna was a despot and an equal opportunity tyrant.

I'm not well versed in the Hawain issues. The best parallel is what happened to indigenous peoples (existing at a Stone Age level for the most part) when European settlers arrived. They got screwed royally. Hawaii was annexed/included as a state in much the way North Dakota was.

We currently have Puerto Rico but they can become an independant nation for all I care. Of course, the US aid and tax benefits would cease. Can you spee H-A-I-T-I? Ending the bombing range just about wiped part of the island out.

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Re: The 51'st state?
Old 04-20-2006, 08:23 PM   #62
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Re: The 51'st state?

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Ending the bombing range just about wiped part of the island out.
Was that intentional?

Could be true for all I know, but funny anyway
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Re: The 51'st state?
Old 04-20-2006, 08:52 PM   #63
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Re: The 51'st state?

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Was that intentional?
Heh, I thought he was talking about Kaho'olawe...
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Re: The 51'st state?
Old 04-21-2006, 07:38 AM   #64
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Re: The 51'st state?

I don't remember how N Dakota became a state, but my recollection of Hawaii is that American (and maybe European) sugar and/or pineapple plantation owners forced the king of Hawaii to agree to some "democratic" reforms such as only wealthy land owners could vote. When a later Queen tried to curtail their power--which was a violatation of some aspect of that "constitution," the wealthy plantation owners overthrew her gov't and lobbied the US for annexation.

Was there something similar going on at that oil meeting in Dick Cheney's office ~5 years ago? I dunno. But I tend to be skeptical of the "everything happens for the noblest of reasons" view of the victors' history books, especially where overthrow of other gov'ts and taking of territory is concerned.
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Re: The 51'st state?
Old 04-21-2006, 12:08 PM   #65
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Re: The 51'st state?

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I don't remember how N Dakota became a state, but my recollection of Hawaii is that American (and maybe European) sugar and/or pineapple plantation owners forced the king of Hawaii to agree to some "democratic" reforms such as only wealthy land owners could vote. When a later Queen tried to curtail their power--which was a violatation of some aspect of that "constitution," the wealthy plantation owners overthrew her gov't and lobbied the US for annexation.
The Bayonet Constitution was signed by Kalakaua to avoid what he regarded as the inevitable. When Lili'uokalani, who'd be regarded today as a fundamentalist, came to power and began pushing her plans to return power to the Hawaiian monarchy with a new constitution, that was the end of it.

Ironically the U.S. federal govt agreed that the takeover was a travesty of misguided American imperialism and was going to fix it any day-- right up until Hawaii was needed as a coaling station for the Spanish-American war fleet on its way to Manila Bay.

The Hawaiian sovereignty movement remains strong & popular, but the alleged "leaders" are so argumentative, emotional, and splintered by squabbles that it makes one despair of progress. Even something as simple as distributing the revenues from ceded lands is too controversial to avoid gridlock.

Gavan Daws' "Shoal of Time" and "Land and Power in Hawaii" are probably still floating around Mainland libraries.
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