The American airlines are looking like Amtrak

newguy88 · 04-09-2008, 09:18 PM

American Cancels 1,000 Flights in New Sign of Trouble - New York Times

Boy what a mess. The american airlines that were bailed out after 9/11 are well crashing and burning, sorry for the play on words, but have ya flown recently?? We did this weekend, its bad real bad out in airline land.

Terrible service, incompetent workers, poorly staffed and totally unprofessional.

America at its best.

From the article...
But regardless of the details of the current flap, American and its domestic competitors have been scaling back maintenance. Some airlines sent work overseas in search of cheaper labor. They cut wages of mechanics in the United States and reduced their numbers. And they quickened the pace of work at maintenance facilities.
“They let too many people go,” said Kevin Cornwell, an MD-80 pilot at American who is also a pilots union official. “They sold spare parts years ago to raise cash. Things don’t get fixed as fast.”

Notmuchlonger · 04-09-2008, 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by newguy888

American Cancels 1,000 Flights in New Sign of Trouble - New York Times

Boy what a mess. The american airlines that were bailed out after 9/11 are well crashing and burning, sorry for the play on words, but have ya flown recently?? We did this weekend, its bad real bad out in airline land.

What was bad about it? Share with us. We flew in January on Frontier Airlines and everything was smooth and nice.

Rambler · 04-09-2008, 09:39 PM

Fly all the time. Some of the foreign carriers are better, many are worse. I refuse to fly on a Chinese carrier...pretty much prefer to stay out of China anyway. Singapore Airlines is among the best. Emirates Air was very nice. British is good on long haul flights in business or first. Swiss is good. I avoid Air France and Alitalia like the plague. Japan Airlines is pretty good. I will fly long haul AA or UAL if I have to...

All of that said, on my last trip to Europe, my bag got lost on the way there, found the next day, and again on the way home. It caught up with me two days later. British Air was the culprit in both instances.

R

newguy88 · 04-09-2008, 09:43 PM

Son and Daughter in law just got back from south america. 9 different legs of flying. The 3 legs avianca in south America all on time and top notch. Every other leg american carriers all delayed canceled or just plane difficult.

FIREdreamer · 04-10-2008, 01:14 AM

For a while American Airlines was my favorite US airline. I used them all the time to fly to Europe (the Raleigh-London flight on their new 777 was very practical for me). Nowadays I pretty much avoid flying US airlines on long flights though (service is just too poor compared to many foreign airlines). I particularly avoid Delta (I have terrible memories flying them between Zurich and Atlanta a few years ago, 10 hours cooped up in a narrow seat (middle seat in a row of 5) with my knees bumping in the seat in front of me, no individual entertainment system, old MD-11 plane which looked like it could use some TLC, food which was simply deplorable...). On my trips to Europe I now almost exclusively fly Swiss but I also like KLM and Lufthansa. But even Swiss is not up to par with its predecessor Swissair. The service has definitely gone down hill and I sometimes find their staff borderline rude. But they are usually punctual, the food is not bad, the planes are clean, I feel safe flying them, and they happen to fly where I need to go most of the time. I guess that's about all you can ask of an airline nowadays...

clifp · 04-10-2008, 04:02 AM

The airlines business has always been lousy.

Here is Warren Buffett on airlines from this years stockholder letter.

Quote:

Now let’s move to the gruesome. The worst sort of business is one that grows rapidly, requires
significant capital to engender the growth, and then earns little or no money. Think airlines.

Here a durable competitive advantage has proven elusive ever since the days of the Wright Brothers. Indeed, if a farsighted capitalist had been present at Kitty Hawk, he would have done his successors a huge favor by shooting Orville down.

The airline industry’s demand for capital ever since that first flight has been insatiable. Investors
have poured money into a bottomless pit, attracted by growth when they should have been repelled by it.

I believe that if it wasn't for military contracts, collective the world has not made a dime designing, building, or flying airplanes.

Midpack · 04-10-2008, 05:50 AM

Great, I have a business trip booked on AA in about a month. Might be cancelled, but I can't decide if that's a good thing or a bad thing...

brewer12345 · 04-10-2008, 08:39 AM

Merkin Airlines has about the oldest fleet of all the majors. I don't believe anyone else in the US even flies many MD80s any more. Not a huge shock that issues crop up with old planes.

happy2bretired · 04-10-2008, 08:48 AM

I flew KLM on my recent trip to Berlin. No problems at all. The flight over was a little uncomfortable since I was in the MIDDLE of a 5 seat row and only left my seat once. But, the return trip was nice...aisle seat, my preference. The food wasn't too bad either as far as flight meals.

ziggy29 · 04-10-2008, 09:01 AM

Eeyore strikes again.

FIREdreamer · 04-10-2008, 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brewer12345

Merkin Airlines has about the oldest fleet of all the majors. I don't believe anyone else in the US even flies many MD80s any more. Not a huge shock that issues crop up with old planes.

Actually quite a few airlines still fly the MD-80 in America: AA, delta, Alaska for the majors, but also Allegiant, Midwest, Spirit... And of course Northwest still flies the ancestor of the MD-80, the DC-9...

Walt34 · 04-10-2008, 09:51 AM

I haven't flown anywhere since three years after retirement, and those trips were part of volunteering for a nonprofit. It just isn't worth the hassle.

brewer12345 · 04-10-2008, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FIREdreamer

Actually quite a few airlines still fly the MD-80 in America: AA, delta, Alaska for the majors, but also Allegiant, Midwest, Spirit... And of course Northwest still flies the ancestor of the MD-80, the DC-9...

Sure, but Delta has been phasing them out and has lots of shiny new planes. Alaska a major? Don't think so. Allegiant, etc., who cares? Northwest is in BK and will likely be shedding a bunch of crappy old planes upon exit from BK.

FIREdreamer · 04-10-2008, 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brewer12345

Sure, but Delta has been phasing them out and has lots of shiny new planes. Alaska a major? Don't think so. Allegiant, etc., who cares? Northwest is in BK and will likely be shedding a bunch of crappy old planes upon exit from BK.

So you have an answer for everything... Better leave it a that...

brewer12345 · 04-10-2008, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FIREdreamer

So you have an answer for everything... Better leave it a that...

O-kaaaayyy... Whatever you say, chief.

saluki9 · 04-10-2008, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brewer12345

Merkin Airlines has about the oldest fleet of all the majors. I don't believe anyone else in the US even flies many MD80s any more. Not a huge shock that issues crop up with old planes.

Northwest does too. That being said I'm on American a couple times a month and they're usually great. I'm still a fan, but then again I didn't get stuck in the latest fiasco.

saluki9 · 04-10-2008, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FIREdreamer

So you have an answer for everything... Better leave it a that...

How about we just leave it at flying is a bad business as long as people are your cargo.

newguy88 · 04-11-2008, 05:24 AM

Hey look at this Frontier airlines has filed bankruptcy.Oh reorganization, but these guys are gonna continue to fly. Uh huh, yep thats right business does it so much better than govmint. Lets just agree that business will try and do it as cheaply as possible and govmint will do it just as poorly.

Oh by the by isn't our military a GOVMINT run organization? Oh and everyone says its the best in the world??

Texarkandy · 04-11-2008, 06:54 AM

Dallas to Fort Lauderdale - Round Trip - 2 passengers (one adult & one youth) - for one week in June

American Airlines - $476 rt (incl taxes & fees) for two passengers - 2 hour flight one way
AmTrak - $694 rt adult fare (child rides free) - 22 hour ride one way
Driving - $435 - (2680 miles at 20 mpg x $ 3.25 per gal = $435) (+ one heck of a long drive)

I'm not complaining about AA too much yet.

FinanceDude · 04-11-2008, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by newguy888

Hey look at this Frontier airlines has filed bankruptcy.Oh reorganization, but these guys are gonna continue to fly. Uh huh, yep thats right business does it so much better than govmint. Lets just agree that business will try and do it as cheaply as possible and govmint will do it just as poorly.

There's a common thread in public transportation: Their LARGEST cost is gasoline, and most haven't done a good job of hedging that cost through futures contracts.

Quote:

Oh by the by isn't our military a GOVMINT run organization? Oh and everyone says its the best in the world??

Find me a better army, I dare you.........

04-09-2008, 09:18 PM	#1
newguy88 Thinks s/he gets paid by the post Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 2,119	The American airlines are looking like Amtrak American Cancels 1,000 Flights in New Sign of Trouble - New York Times Boy what a mess. The american airlines that were bailed out after 9/11 are well crashing and burning, sorry for the play on words, but have ya flown recently?? We did this weekend, its bad real bad out in airline land. Terrible service, incompetent workers, poorly staffed and totally unprofessional. America at its best. From the article... But regardless of the details of the current flap, American and its domestic competitors have been scaling back maintenance. Some airlines sent work overseas in search of cheaper labor. They cut wages of mechanics in the United States and reduced their numbers. And they quickened the pace of work at maintenance facilities. “They let too many people go,” said Kevin Cornwell, an MD-80 pilot at American who is also a pilots union official. “They sold spare parts years ago to raise cash. Things don’t get fixed as fast.”

04-10-2008, 01:14 AM	#5
FIREdreamer Thinks s/he gets paid by the post Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 1,289	For a while American Airlines was my favorite US airline. I used them all the time to fly to Europe (the Raleigh-London flight on their new 777 was very practical for me). Nowadays I pretty much avoid flying US airlines on long flights though (service is just too poor compared to many foreign airlines). I particularly avoid Delta (I have terrible memories flying them between Zurich and Atlanta a few years ago, 10 hours cooped up in a narrow seat (middle seat in a row of 5) with my knees bumping in the seat in front of me, no individual entertainment system, old MD-11 plane which looked like it could use some TLC, food which was simply deplorable...). On my trips to Europe I now almost exclusively fly Swiss but I also like KLM and Lufthansa. But even Swiss is not up to par with its predecessor Swissair. The service has definitely gone down hill and I sometimes find their staff borderline rude. But they are usually punctual, the food is not bad, the planes are clean, I feel safe flying them, and they happen to fly where I need to go most of the time. I guess that's about all you can ask of an airline nowadays... __________________ "Fortune favors the brave" - Virgil

04-10-2008, 05:50 AM	#7
Midpack Full time employment: Posting here. Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 875	Great, I have a business trip booked on AA in about a month. Might be cancelled, but I can't decide if that's a good thing or a bad thing... __________________ You only live once...

04-10-2008, 08:39 AM	#8
brewer12345 Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ... Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 9,223	Merkin Airlines has about the oldest fleet of all the majors. I don't believe anyone else in the US even flies many MD80s any more. Not a huge shock that issues crop up with old planes. __________________ “When you realize that you are one of the rare few who observe moral principles in their relationships with others, there is a temptation to sink into amorality, not out of conviction or pleasure but simply to avoid further pain, because there is no greater suffering than being an angel in hell, whereas a devil feels at home wherever he goes.” – Martin Page, How I Became Stupid

04-10-2008, 09:01 AM	#10
ziggy29 Thinks s/he gets paid by the post Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Texas Hill Country Posts: 2,323	Eeyore strikes again. __________________ FIRE Clock: Retired. Since it feels like I'll never be now. waiting for the government to privatize the gains and socialize my losses in my 401K...

04-09-2008, 09:39 PM	#3
Rambler Full time employment: Posting here. Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 714	Fly all the time. Some of the foreign carriers are better, many are worse. I refuse to fly on a Chinese carrier...pretty much prefer to stay out of China anyway. Singapore Airlines is among the best. Emirates Air was very nice. British is good on long haul flights in business or first. Swiss is good. I avoid Air France and Alitalia like the plague. Japan Airlines is pretty good. I will fly long haul AA or UAL if I have to... All of that said, on my last trip to Europe, my bag got lost on the way there, found the next day, and again on the way home. It caught up with me two days later. British Air was the culprit in both instances. R

04-09-2008, 09:43 PM	#4
newguy88 Thinks s/he gets paid by the post Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 2,119	Son and Daughter in law just got back from south america. 9 different legs of flying. The 3 legs avianca in south America all on time and top notch. Every other leg american carriers all delayed canceled or just plane difficult.

04-10-2008, 08:48 AM	#9
happy2bretired Recycles dryer sheets Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Nebraska Posts: 482	I flew KLM on my recent trip to Berlin. No problems at all. The flight over was a little uncomfortable since I was in the MIDDLE of a 5 seat row and only left my seat once. But, the return trip was nice...aisle seat, my preference. The food wasn't too bad either as far as flight meals.

04-10-2008, 09:51 AM	#12
Walt34 Thinks s/he gets paid by the post Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: WV Panhandle Posts: 1,202	I haven't flown anywhere since three years after retirement, and those trips were part of volunteering for a nonprofit. It just isn't worth the hassle. __________________ Retired six years ago at age 52

04-11-2008, 05:24 AM	#18
newguy88 Thinks s/he gets paid by the post Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 2,119	Hey look at this Frontier airlines has filed bankruptcy.Oh reorganization, but these guys are gonna continue to fly. Uh huh, yep thats right business does it so much better than govmint. Lets just agree that business will try and do it as cheaply as possible and govmint will do it just as poorly. Oh by the by isn't our military a GOVMINT run organization? Oh and everyone says its the best in the world??

04-11-2008, 06:54 AM	#19
Texarkandy Thinks s/he gets paid by the post Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 1,009	Dallas to Fort Lauderdale - Round Trip - 2 passengers (one adult & one youth) - for one week in June American Airlines - $476 rt (incl taxes & fees) for two passengers - 2 hour flight one way AmTrak - $694 rt adult fare (child rides free) - 22 hour ride one way Driving - $435 - (2680 miles at 20 mpg x $ 3.25 per gal = $435) (+ one heck of a long drive) I'm not complaining about AA too much yet. __________________ Last edited by Texarkandy; 04-11-2008 at 11:55 AM. Reason: Edited AA price