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Margin Call ( The Movie)
Old 01-07-2016, 02:51 PM   #41
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Margin Call ( The Movie)

I am looking forward to The Big Short but will probably have to go alone. In the meantime, I stumbled on this movie from 2011 (I think) with Kevin Spacey and Demi Moore which is making the rounds on HBO. It deals with the crisis from a totally different angle, apparently. I only watched half of it so far and it's pretty good.

Edit: Ok, the middle and end of this movie were disappointing. I will probably watch it again but I am now more anxious to see The Big Short.
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Old 01-10-2016, 08:10 PM   #42
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Saw the movie tonight & I thought they did an amazing job .It was better than the book.
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Old 01-10-2016, 08:23 PM   #43
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I read the book a while back, and will see the movie when it's available in DVD at the local library.

Book readers will also enjoy Michael Lewis' subsequent book, Boomerang: Travels in the New Third World (2011), where he visited Iceland, Ireland, and Greece and described how these countries dug their own financial grave without having to import the CDO/CDS mess from the US.
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Old 01-11-2016, 05:43 AM   #44
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I always felt bad for all those people with no jobs and no money who were dragged into banks and forced to sign for mortgages they knew they couldn't afford.

So sad.
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Old 01-11-2016, 06:53 AM   #45
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I always felt bad for all those people with no jobs and no money who were dragged into banks and forced to sign for mortgages they knew they couldn't afford.
So sad.
+1
I mean you would have thought that it would be illegal or something? Kidnapping at the very least right?
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Old 01-11-2016, 07:10 AM   #46
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+1
I mean you would have thought that it would be illegal or something? Kidnapping at the very least right?
Right! Sign here or we kill your dog!
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Old 01-11-2016, 07:49 AM   #47
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I always felt bad for all those people with no jobs and no money who were dragged into banks and forced to sign for mortgages they knew they couldn't afford.

So sad.
I get your point, but I'd suggest that there was more collusion on the part of those that packaged these loans into worthless securities than among the ne'er do wells that signed up for the loans.

I'd also suggest that when it was all over, one group did a lot better than the other.
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Old 01-11-2016, 09:14 AM   #48
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I always felt bad for all those people with no jobs and no money who were dragged into banks and forced to sign for mortgages they knew they couldn't afford.

So sad.

Not sure of the percentage who did this, but, at least according to David Faber's reporting, mortgage brokers were blowing smoke to unsophisticated buyers about how housing always goes up, and how they could do cash-out refis...

The bankers were supposed to be the adults in the room, but they got theirs upfront, then sold off the crappy mortgages to Wall Street, who hid the junk inside MBSs...
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Old 01-11-2016, 11:13 AM   #49
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Not sure of the percentage who did this, but, at least according to David Faber's reporting, mortgage brokers were blowing smoke to unsophisticated buyers about how housing always goes up, and how they could do cash-out refis...
.
Could be, but I know for certain of two separate people who knew exactly what they were doing. Their plan was to just live in a $1M house, stiff the bankers and run when things got hot.
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Old 01-11-2016, 11:35 AM   #50
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If those loan packages were honestly rated the lenders incentives to write stinky mortgages would have been seriously reduced. What did the lender care? The loan would be packaged and sold, no risk for them.
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Old 01-11-2016, 11:39 AM   #51
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Could be, but I know for certain of two separate people who knew exactly what they were doing. Their plan was to just live in a $1M house, stiff the bankers and run when things got hot.
Remind me again of the difference between anecdotes and data.

Like HFWR said, the bankers were supposed to be the adults in the room. They were in the best position to know what they were doing was illegal and ultimately benefited the most from the deception. This is not to say that there was not fraud on the part of the loan applicants, but society holds different members of society to different standards.
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Old 01-11-2016, 11:45 AM   #52
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Remind me again of the difference between anecdotes and data.
The 'data' in my example were people we knew who moved into our neighborhood and told us outright what they had in mind. They thought the whole thing hysterical.

If you want names, dates and their new addresses let me know and I'll see what I can do.
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Old 01-11-2016, 11:53 AM   #53
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The 'data' in my example were people we knew who moved into our neighborhood and told us outright what they had in mind. They thought the whole thing hysterical.

If you want names, dates and their new addresses let me know and I'll see what I can do.
I believe that you knew the two people you referenced. I just don't think the next big crash will be avoided by trying to convert all the people like your acquaintances. The point of leverage is with the loan officers, the mortgage bundlers and the rating agencies. They know the laws and stand to lose the most if prosecuted, the operative word being "if".
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Old 01-11-2016, 12:32 PM   #54
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Plenty of blame to go around. I don't know anyone personally who would admit to getting a mortgage with no ability or intention of paying it, but I know someone pushed to sell houses for a developer to people like that in the mid-2000s, and another person (no connection to the first person) on his way to prison for mortgage fraud at the lender level. And a couple of real estate lawyers I'm not too sure didn't have their fingers in the pie. So there are a couple of meaningless anecdotes.

We are going to see this movie today. I love Christian Bale in anything.
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The Big Short
Old 01-11-2016, 12:42 PM   #55
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The Big Short

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Could be, but I know for certain of two separate people who knew exactly what they were doing. Their plan was to just live in a $1M house, stiff the bankers and run when things got hot.

I don't doubt there was outright fraud, but, as we've exhaustively discussed on this very forum, even "smart" people can be incredibly naive when it comes to financial matters. So, not sure how much fraud there was as a percentage, but I still submit that the mortgage brokers and bankers should have known better...
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Old 01-11-2016, 01:48 PM   #56
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I don't doubt there was outright fraud, but, as we've exhaustively discussed on this very forum, even "smart" people can be incredibly naive when it comes to financial matters. So, not sure how much fraud there was as a percentage, but I still submit that the mortgage brokers and bankers should have known better...
In the bad old days when banks kept their mortgage loans, people with bad credit would have been shown the door.
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Old 01-11-2016, 04:10 PM   #57
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Well, that was really good and really depressing.
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Old 01-12-2016, 10:10 AM   #58
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Where there is easy money to be made, there will always be corrupt people to take advantage. But it does highlight an ongoing flaw in the financial system. It was designed back when honor counted.
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Old 01-12-2016, 03:43 PM   #59
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Where there is easy money to be made, there will always be corrupt people to take advantage. But it does highlight an ongoing flaw in the financial system. It was designed back when honor counted.
Honor and skin in the game. Like I said, when banks held their own loans, they didn't finance million dollar houses for day laborers.
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Old 01-12-2016, 03:51 PM   #60
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Honor and skin in the game. Like I said, when banks held their own loans, they didn't finance million dollar houses for day laborers.
Honor in the banking system is as common as a maiden in a bordello. Skin in the game did, and would again, make a big positive difference. The same applies to universities and student loans.
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