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The borg?
Old 04-12-2017, 06:30 PM   #1
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The borg?

Self-made millionaire leads Elon Musk in fusing brains and computers

Elon Musk has been in the news lately mentioning the integration of computers and the human brain. I first saw this idea in Ray Kurzweil's book, Age of Spiritual Machines, where he basically says this is the next step in human evolution. Kurzeil goes even further and posits that death will be optional in a relatively short period of time ( I think I saw him on TV talking about what he was doing to try to live longer, thinking this may be possible in his "natural" lifetime).

The above article is about a guy who has a company already trying to do this. I guess it would be like you have perfect memory and access to information embedded in your brain.

Kurzeil touches on some of the challenges this presents. One being, if you think the world is divided into haves and have nots now, just wait until some people have this "enhancement" and others don't.

Could you see this being done to all newborns?

Would you get this done to you if it was available?

The borg def: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borg_(Star_Trek)
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Old 04-12-2017, 07:09 PM   #2
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Sure, if it actually works as advertised. There are many of us currently living with implants that supplement our normal functions ( I have a pacemaker). If there is a much more advanced device that is able to safely integrate into our brains and enhance our quality of life and extend it I would certainly be interested. The objections I have to immortality are based on my current understanding of ever decreasing mental and bodily functions as I have observed in those that get to an advanced age. But if vigor and mental acuity is maintained - why not?
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Old 04-12-2017, 09:25 PM   #3
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In the "Day of the Cheetah" the premise was to fuse the controls of a fighter jet with the pilot to lower reaction time between when the pilot thinks of a manuever and the jet executes. It was an interesting premise back in 1989.

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The project this time is to mate a highly maneuverable canard wing fighter with an advanced neural transfer and response device (ANTARES) which will result in an aircraft capable of turning on a dime, with eight cents change, and reacting at the speed of thought. Using ANTARES a pilot will be able to formulate an action and have his thought transmitted electronically to the aircraft for instantaneous execution. Moreover, the aircraft would be equipped with a computer software program capable of offering the pilot a list of possible actions to undertake in a given situation.
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Old 04-12-2017, 09:30 PM   #4
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Old 04-13-2017, 07:01 AM   #5
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In the "Day of the Cheetah" the premise was to fuse the controls of a fighter jet with the pilot to lower reaction time between when the pilot thinks of a manuever and the jet executes. It was an interesting premise back in 1989.
Going to watch that one - I only knew about this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firefox_(film)

Same premise roughly, 1982
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Old 04-13-2017, 07:06 AM   #6
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It's all very interesting and maybe inevitable but not in our lifetimes. Kurzweil predicted that his "synchronicity" was near several years ago but the reality is that biology is beyond complex. We can't even figure out how to lose weight let alone hold back Alzheimer's. We are making and will make stunning strides but I wouldn't want to be in the early Borg population. There will be some spectacular screw-ups on the way to paradise.
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Old 04-13-2017, 07:06 AM   #7
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Could you see this being done to all newborns?
No. Some, but not all. Vaccines have existed for a while, and alot of newborns still don't get vaccinations, by choice.

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Would you get this done to you if it was available?
Unlikely, I'll probably end up as a hermit in a forest somewhere ..

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.. and I'm probably not worth assimilating
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Old 04-13-2017, 07:18 AM   #8
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If the technology worked flawlessly, then I'd be happy to have cybernetically enhanced intellect. It would also have to be guaranteed to have no negative effects on me in the event of a technology failure. Can't have a localized EMP making me brain dead ya know...

Seeing as how we can't yet replace all the "simple" organs, I can't see technology getting to the point of reliably supplementing our brains in my lifetime.
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Old 04-13-2017, 07:58 AM   #9
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It will come in baby steps. Now, with cell phones being connected to the internet and advances being made to thought control prosthetic limbs, it is fairly easy to see an eventual intersection where we can use our brains to access the internet.
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Old 04-13-2017, 08:22 AM   #10
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It's one of two inventions that, as a child reading SciFi, I've always thought we'd eventually get to.

First, ubiquitous networking. Almost there, with our cell phones.

Second, being able to insert a memory chip (sort of like an SD card) into our skulls and storing information there. As someone with a serious handicap in the memory department, this one always held the most appeal to me.

You bet I'd sign up for it! I'm not even looking for any guarantees. If there's even a chance it'll work, I'll take the risk. It's not like I've got my whole life ahead of me or anything. I've got much more to gain than to lose, even if you don't count the service to humanity of being a guinea pig.
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Old 04-13-2017, 08:47 AM   #11
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It's one of two inventions that, as a child reading SciFi, I've always thought we'd eventually get to.

First, ubiquitous networking. Almost there, with our cell phones.

Second, being able to insert a memory chip (sort of like an SD card) into our skulls and storing information there. As someone with a serious handicap in the memory department, this one always held the most appeal to me.

You bet I'd sign up for it! I'm not even looking for any guarantees. If there's even a chance it'll work, I'll take the risk. It's not like I've got my whole life ahead of me or anything. I've got much more to gain than to lose, even if you don't count the service to humanity of being a guinea pig.

Interesting perspective! Me, I'd be way too chicken to even consider it. Same as expedition to colonizing Mars or the moon, etc - endlessly fascinating, but....
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Old 04-13-2017, 09:18 AM   #12
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Arthur C Clarke, Fredrick Pohl, William Gibson and many more that don't immediately come to mind (my Brain Cap seems to be slow today). This is definitely only a matter of time. It seems to me that this is the only way that humans are likely to reach the stars unless the laws of nature are not as we currently understand them.
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Old 04-13-2017, 10:29 AM   #13
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I find this an interesting thought coming from a guy who thinks we need to be careful of AI lest we "summon the demon'.

Maybe people should read the children's book series - The Tripods.

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Humans are controlled from the age of 14 by implants called "Caps", which suppress curiosity and creativity. Some people, whose minds are broken by the Caps, become vagrants.
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/...ripods_Trilogy
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Old 04-13-2017, 07:29 PM   #14
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Interesting perspective! Me, I'd be way too chicken to even consider it. Same as expedition to colonizing Mars or the moon, etc - endlessly fascinating, but....
I'd go in a heartbeat.

I grew up during the space race, and just always assumed we'd colonize the Moon and be on Mars during my lifetime. Maybe I'd even go myself.

Perhaps we just lost our MoJo. Then again, I suppose it took 200 years between Columbus and any significant European settlement activity in the Americas, so maybe that was overly optimistic.

It's ironic that we live when we do. All the amazing advances of the last 100 years, and things just keep accelerating. It's actually reasonable to think that we might eliminate a lot of the ailments of aging and extend life significantly... right around the time it's too late for those of us on this board.
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Old 04-13-2017, 08:26 PM   #15
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I'm too chicken to do lasik... and still where glasses... I think the closest I'd come to having a chip inserted in my brain is having my cell phone nearby. I'm a wuss.
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Old 04-13-2017, 08:28 PM   #16
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Some people, whose minds have been broken by the Caps, become vagrants...
And some become politicians...
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Old 04-13-2017, 08:37 PM   #17
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It will come in baby steps. Now, with cell phones being connected to the internet and advances being made to thought control prosthetic limbs, it is fairly easy to see an eventual intersection where we can use our brains to access the internet.

I look forward to when people use their brains...
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Old 04-13-2017, 08:43 PM   #18
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I look forward to when people use their brains...
And you think people fall for fake news easily now.........
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Old 04-13-2017, 09:32 PM   #19
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Watch a couple of episodes of the series Black Mirror to see where some of this could turn ugly (it's available on Netflix). While it could be awesome in theory, I worry that in practice it would be an opening to be controlled by the government, big business (which may be the government at some point), or hackers.

As to Kurzweil, he's a really smart guy and he's probably right that the convergence is coming but his dates are constantly changing. It's kind of like the perma-bears who know the market crash is coming but they can't accurately predict when. The convergence timing is hard because it's exponential and it will creep up on us until it explodes but at the early slow stages of change it's hard to know when that will happen. We may be right on the edge of the curve where it goes infinite or that may be 100 years from now.
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Old 04-14-2017, 04:43 AM   #20
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The convergence timing is hard because it's exponential and it will creep up on us until it explodes but at the early slow stages of change it's hard to know when that will happen.
There also multiple frontiers that tend to expand in bursts, make new things possible, get triggered by individuals and influence each other.

The electric car is a nice example. It probably would have happened eventually, but without Tesla .. probably ten years or more later. Same thing with VR: if Oculus was crowd-funded five years earlier or five years later, very different timing.

Not sure who said this, but it rings true to me: you can see that water will flow downhill, but the path it takes and where it exactly ends up is nearly impossible to predict.
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