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Old 04-06-2011, 05:25 PM   #301
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Hmmm..since you asked, and since one of the prize perks of being on the Net is the ability to quibble....yes!

Two surgeons have actually prefaced their advice to me or husband with, "Now, I'm a surgeon, so you know I like to operate...." then explained why surgery was not the best option in the particular case at hand. Two others simply explained why the cons of surgery outweighed the pros. In every instance, I and/or husband have been glad we didn't opt for surgery.

On the other hand...since I am still in a quibbly mood...I wonder if a cosmetic surgeon would ever tell a 60-year-old woman she doesn't need a facelift .

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have you ever gone to a surgeon who did not think that a surgery was a reasonable thing to consider?

.
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Old 04-06-2011, 06:23 PM   #302
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Were I the OP I would definitely consult with an attorney on the qt, but I would also take the approach that another suggested to have the husband write out his plan and explain why it is a good strategy financially. Tell him you want to consult with your CPA to make sure that there aren't financial consequences that neither of you have anticipated, take along a copy of your last two tax returns. Do the old "help me understand" stalling tactic until you can structure your finances to protect your interest with the guidance of the attorney and CPA.

It could be that he is wrong about the benefits of his proposition, it could be that he is trying a fast one. Could be either, both or neither.
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Old 04-06-2011, 06:33 PM   #303
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it is true that any property purchased during marriage is 50/50, no matter who mortgages it or whose name is on the deed.

Lauliza: Ask your attorney.....if the same is still true...if your husband can prove he made the mortgage payments for the larger house out of his own account with the account titled in just his name. That makes a difference here in Virginia.

My husband says it is a tax benefit to each have a mortgage, and we can both pay off each with the proceeds from our current home. I understand that part.

What? Do you file your taxes separately? If so, I can see this as a benefit...but it is the only way I see a tax benefit. Otherwise...if you file "together" I see no tax benefit.

He pointed out that the property taxes on both houses are lower than the current one. I replied back that (obviously) added together two real estate taxes end up exactly the same, actually a little more, than the current property tax on the house we own now. Its just that I would presumably pay one bill while he pays the other. He can clam up when he doesn't want to talk, so I assume my suspicions are correct. If there is any real financial benefit to this, can someone let me know? So far, all I have found out is that the arrangement makes no sense financially unless he wants to be sure we own separate properties in case we divorce. We have not had a good marriage for a while, so I see that. Also, to point out while one house is bigger than the other, both are quite nice and suitable for year round living with the kids, especially if it were only three people and not four. He grew up in larger houses, so that is what he is accustomed to. I guess the writing is on the wall, but when I try to get a logical answer from him I see no logic. Yes, it is not devious in that he is trying to take any money away from me, this is fair if we were to split up. But staying together? I can't imagine any other financial benefit of this. I guess I'm trying to see if there is any logic out there and I don't want to really share this info with those close to me yet as I am sure the reactions would be suspicious as well...
For him to do this takes your willing cooperation as you do not have to sign the listing agreement for your current home..unless of course you want to.
If ...things progress ...the way you suspect...and he ends up with the larger house...and you the smaller...then it wasn't 50/50. Try to think about what you would like to have happen....if you do divorce. Do you really want a house that he manipulated you into? Or would you rather take 1/2 the proceeds from your current house and buy what you want? And check out that titling thing....if he can prove he paid the mortgage with his own money from his own account. Your attorney may have a different answer for you . Make sure he scours the divorce code for your state for extenuating circumstances. There is a reason your husband is doing this...otherwise why not just title both properties in both names?
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Old 04-07-2011, 12:07 PM   #304
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TO be a little more clear on this, the house we own now we did pay off and is deeded in both of our names. Also, we both have been professionals with good incomes and have our own money. He made more and does have some of his own money from family real estate deeded to him before we married and since sold. He has two houses in mind that he loves in the same town we live in now. His plan is to now sell our current, jointly owned house, divide the money, and purchase these two new houses with a mortgage on each, one for him, one for me. Also with one deeded to him, one to me. I did ask an attorney and in Mass. it is true that any property purchased during marriage is 50/50, no matter who mortgages it or whose name is on the deed. My husband says it is a tax benefit to each have a mortgage, and we can both pay off each with the proceeds from our current home. I understand that part. He pointed out that the property taxes on both houses are lower than the current one. I replied back that (obviously) added together two real estate taxes end up exactly the same, actually a little more, than the current property tax on the house we own now. Its just that I would presumably pay one bill while he pays the other. He can clam up when he doesn't want to talk, so I assume my suspicions are correct. If there is any real financial benefit to this, can someone let me know? So far, all I have found out is that the arrangement makes no sense financially unless he wants to be sure we own separate properties in case we divorce. We have not had a good marriage for a while, so I see that. Also, to point out while one house is bigger than the other, both are quite nice and suitable for year round living with the kids, especially if it were only three people and not four. He grew up in larger houses, so that is what he is accustomed to. I guess the writing is on the wall, but when I try to get a logical answer from him I see no logic. Yes, it is not devious in that he is trying to take any money away from me, this is fair if we were to split up. But staying together? I can't imagine any other financial benefit of this. I guess I'm trying to see if there is any logic out there and I don't want to really share this info with those close to me yet as I am sure the reactions would be suspicious as well...

I don't get this... from what I read, you currently live together in one house... your husband is suggesting that you sell that ONE house and buy TWO houses... and that you have separate names and mortgagages on the houses... is this correct

If so, I think your husband is already planning for the divorce and just wants to get some of it done before he tells you... for the life of me I can not see why someone would want to own two houses that are close to each other unless they wanted to live separately.....
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Old 04-07-2011, 12:49 PM   #305
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Lauliza,
It does seem like something is amiss since he wants to apparently separate the assets. His opaque behavior is a giant red flag to me. Consider also the possibility of another woman, or? on the scene.

Yes, I would consult with an attorney. And, surround yourself with people who support you (friends, family, etc.). Put you and the children first.

Don't forget to take good care of yourself.
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Old 04-07-2011, 01:00 PM   #306
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It doesn't sound good to me. At all. Do you have access to the bank accounts? Or do you maintain seperate accounts? Have access to the investments? If he is splitting the house money, he may be doing it with the other money.
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Old 04-07-2011, 01:31 PM   #307
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I think this is just a lot of worry about nothing. Unless he can hide the money, you can count on US divorce proceedings to ferret out everything, then add a little lagniappe for the lady.

I know a woman whose husband was giving money to 2 women, and also sending some off to his parents in another country. Except for the minibucks spent on his GFs, all the rest of his machinations did him no good at all. Hiding money takes more courage than the average middle class man with average middle class connections can muster. If he operates a vending machine business or a bar and grill and has family in another country maybe, otherwise his SSN is plastered on everything. If he is dating, likely the other woman even knows his net worth and credit score.

If he wanted to hide money, how is a house going to work? It's not, that is how.

If OP's husband is Tony Soprano's cousin, perhaps she should be careful. Otherwise, relax, don't sign anything and go forward.

And men, if you want a suspicious woman calling in the law, get married! Guaranteed to work!

If anybody knows anything about how this guy's alleged plotting is likely to help him in a divorce, please post it.

As far as I know, there remains only one state in which title is an important aspect of division of marital assets, and that is Mississippi. (Or it was, ten years or so ago.) The rest are either community property or equitable distribution states, which can mean ladies take all, at least when children are involved. The followng link says that currently, even in Mississippi everything is up for grabs. It is an interesting article...

Divorce, separation, and the ... - Google Books

Here's a great quote from the above: Contemporary marriage cannot be legally defined any more precisely then some sort of legal relationship between two individuals, involving some sort of sexual contact (at times anyway )...that may be formed by the mutual consent of both parties and dissolved at the will of either.
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It does seem like something is amiss since he wants to apparently separate the assets.
There have been various threads on the board where people say "Spouse and I have separate finances..."

In your dreams! If you are married, your finances are not separate, except in your mind.

Ha
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Old 04-07-2011, 02:31 PM   #308
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IMO It looks like he just wants to ease out of the relationship without a big scene . Some men hate confrontation so they do things like take a woman out to dinner to ask for a divorce . I would just ask him "What's up " and if he says everything's fine just do what any normal woman would do snoop . You 'll find the answers out pretty quickly .
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Old 04-07-2011, 02:31 PM   #309
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I might have said this earlier, but I would NOT get remarried if something happened to DW. My dad did that, and I ended up with a self-centered stepmom who only took an interest in my half-brother and my dad and treated us "baggage kids" as second class citizens. No WAY am I going to allow the chance for that to happen to my kids.......
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Old 04-07-2011, 03:09 PM   #310
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This is the thread that just keeps on giving.

Ha
Doesn't it though?

So I'll chime in... I would get married again....just one more time.
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Old 04-07-2011, 04:11 PM   #311
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Originally Posted by haha View Post
I think this is just a lot of worry about nothing. Unless he can hide the money, you can count on US divorce proceedings to ferret out everything, then add a little lagniappe for the lady.

I know a woman whose husband was giving money to 2 women, and also sending some off to his parents in another country. Except for the minibucks spent on his GFs, all the rest of his machinations did him no good at all. Hiding money takes more courage than the average middle class man with average middle class connections can muster. If he operates a vending machine business or a bar and grill and has family in another country maybe, otherwise his SSN is plastered on everything. If he is dating, likely the other woman even knows his net worth and credit score.

If he wanted to hide money, how is a house going to work? It's not, that is how.

If OP's husband is Tony Soprano's cousin, perhaps she should be careful. Otherwise, relax, don't sign anything and go forward.

And men, if you want a suspicious woman calling in the law, get married! Guaranteed to work!

If anybody knows anything about how this guy's alleged plotting is likely to help him in a divorce, please post it.

As far as I know, there remains only one state in which title is an important aspect of division of marital assets, and that is Mississippi. (Or it was, ten years or so ago.) The rest are either community property or equitable distribution states, which can mean ladies take all, at least when children are involved. The followng link says that currently, even in Mississippi everything is up for grabs. It is an interesting article...

Divorce, separation, and the ... - Google Books

Here's a great quote from the above: Contemporary marriage cannot be legally defined any more precisely then some sort of legal relationship between two individuals, involving some sort of sexual contact (at times anyway )...that may be formed by the mutual consent of both parties and dissolved at the will of either.
There have been various threads on the board where people say "Spouse and I have separate finances..."

In your dreams! If you are married, your finances are not separate, except in your mind.

Ha

I will say this is false... a friend of my wife's just got divorced... her lawyer did not do well for her IMO... he had separate assets in a different state and they did not even look to see what they were or if there was community income that they produced... they also did not try to figure out how much community money had been sent up there to take care of it...

The other lawyer hired a hack CPA who did a calculation of the guys pension... he works for a city, so a good pension... he calculated that the PV of the pension at the start of the marriage was X and after 7 years was Y and the difference was a whopping PV of $25K... my quick calculation had it closer to $100K...


Now, a lot of her problems was a bad lawyer... but if the husband had tried to hide some, he would have gotten away with it...


As for the present discussion.... I don't think he is trying to 'hide' money, just make it easier to get a final judgement since the housing is already taken care of.... the only question would be if they split the proceeds of the previous house 50/50 on the downpayments....
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Old 04-07-2011, 07:22 PM   #312
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My brother went through a divorce in Oregon. The courts here require a person with credentials approved by the court to evaluate pension assets.

One of the reasons for gathering tax returns over the past several years is that they may provide leads to assets. I agree that a good divorce lawyer needs to have very good investigative skills and trust no third party providing information about income and assets.

No attorney has an investment in the outcome of the property settlement greater than the client. Come prepared.
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Old 04-07-2011, 07:30 PM   #313
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I might have said this earlier, but I would NOT get remarried if something happened to DW. My dad did that, and I ended up with a self-centered stepmom who only took an interest in my half-brother and my dad and treated us "baggage kids" as second class citizens. No WAY am I going to allow the chance for that to happen to my kids.......

Hey, were you living in my house as a kid and I just didn't notice it? Same childhood but an only child. Stepfather would have been thrilled if I had run off or been run over he was so insanely jealous of any attention I got from day one. Bitter to some degree that mom stayed with him when I was younger, but I've worked that out in my head by now.
What can I say? You just sometimes have to make the best of situations. Looks to me like we did, FinanceDude.
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