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Old 11-29-2010, 02:15 PM   #161
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Most people who avoid heavy entanglements or make it into a business arrangement are scared of ever opening up their heart again and frankly I find that sad . There is nothing better in this world than love and being number one in some body's heart even if it's not forever . Call be a sentimental fool but I still believe in love & marriage !
It's all negotiations and rearrangements.

Gave up on "love and marriage" ~25 years ago.
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Old 11-29-2010, 02:22 PM   #162
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Originally Posted by Moemg View Post
Most people who avoid heavy entanglements or make it into a business arrangement are scared of ever opening up their heart again and frankly I find that sad . There is nothing better in this world than love and being number one in some body's heart even if it's not forever . Call be a sentimental fool but I still believe in love & marriage !
Well, if you're a fool...so am I.

I have unconditional love in my life and I'm going to cherish every moment....
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Old 11-29-2010, 02:30 PM   #163
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I'm all for unconditional love.

Too bad many ladies think they should only grant their love on condition of access to my money.

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Old 11-29-2010, 02:31 PM   #164
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If I ever remarry, it will be to someone with equal earning potential and savings. The cost to exit a marriage is high, depending on state. Luckily my state doesn't award spousal support that often, tho the opposing team is asking for it.

Child support is also stacked against the higher earning spouse. In my case, I am being asked to pay 75% of the total because I make 75% of the gross.

Actually, I am being asked to pay 100% as spouse was terminated a few weeks back.
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Old 11-29-2010, 02:39 PM   #165
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I'm all for unconditional love.

Too bad many ladies think they should only grant their love on condition of access to my money.

LOL. Unconditional love outside of parent/child relationships and special short term emergencies is mostly a slogan, not a reality.

A look at marriages as they are will convince almost anyone that there are about as many conditions to marriage continuance as there are to your continuing to occupy your mortgaged house.

Husband and wife had better understand the limits, and stay within them, or spouse and his/her lawyer wil help you understand in case you should ever be moved to try another marriage.

Just hang around this board for long enough, and unless you have filters going you will get a course in how limits are signaled and enforced within marriages.

Ha
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Old 11-29-2010, 02:43 PM   #166
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If I ever remarry, it will be to someone with equal earning potential and savings. The cost to exit a marriage is high, depending on state. Luckily my state doesn't award spousal support that often, tho the opposing team is asking for it.

Child support is also stacked against the higher earning spouse. In my case, I am being asked to pay 75% of the total because I make 75% of the gross.

Actually, I am being asked to pay 100% as spouse was terminated a few weeks back.
You are custodial parent, is that not correct?

Ha
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Old 11-29-2010, 02:50 PM   #167
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If I ever remarry, it will be to someone with equal earning potential and savings.
I think that's very wise, though I personally have no experience with remarriage, having been married just this once, since 1968. My wife is a professional, with background, career, finances, on a par with me, and is a proud person, who would no more try to profit from me than I would from her, should we ever part ways (pretty darn unlikely at this point).
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Old 11-29-2010, 02:54 PM   #168
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You are custodial parent, is that not correct?

Ha
I was (still am I guess), but spouse retained a new lawyer and she must have told spouse that parenting time=$. We were at 75% me/25% her, but new proposal is 50/50 parenting time.

Burden of proof to deviate from 50/50 is pretty high (felony, drug/alcohol issues, etc).

One of the issues I have with the whole process is that the judge can pretty much do whatever he/she wants in dividing assets. "Fair and equitible" is the only standard.

Obviously, my idea of fair and equitable is slightly slanted toward my own self interests. Only slightly tho.
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Old 11-29-2010, 02:58 PM   #169
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I attracted my share of men who were looking for someone to help with child support and mortgage payments. I always felt they had some nerve.

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Quote:
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I'm all for unconditional love.

Too bad many ladies think they should only grant their love on condition of access to my money.

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Old 11-29-2010, 03:04 PM   #170
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I was (still am I guess), but spouse retained a new lawyer and she must have told spouse that parenting time=$. We were at 75% me/25% her, but new proposal is 50/50 parenting time.

Burden of proof to deviate from 50/50 is pretty high (felony, drug/alcohol issues, etc).

One of the issues I have with the whole process is that the judge can pretty much do whatever he/she wants in dividing assets. "Fair and equitible" is the only standard.

Obviously, my idea of fair and equitable is slightly slanted toward my own self interests. Only slightly tho.
Yes, I see. Specially hurtful for you when you were the one who understood and was willing to care for your child.
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Old 11-29-2010, 05:39 PM   #171
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Originally Posted by Moemg View Post
Most people who avoid heavy entanglements or make it into a business arrangement are scared of ever opening up their heart again and frankly I find that sad . There is nothing better in this world than love and being number one in some body's heart even if it's not forever . Call be a sentimental fool but I still believe in love & marriage !
I agree with you but I think we are in the minority. if I hadn't taken a chance on my second marriage I would have been much the poorer, and I don't mean financially. After the first marriage I had every reason not to do it again.
DougV- I feel for you. Good luck. Kids really complicate a second marriage.
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Old 11-29-2010, 07:31 PM   #172
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Fast-forward to now; my wife has constantly enabled this addicted, violent, felonious psychopath to the determent of our marriage. I pumped $35,000 into a major rehab for the daughter back in 2006, a loan to my wife. Each year it got worse and worse, with arrests, violence, and abuse of my wife.

My wife and I are now right on the cusp of divorce. After years of propping my DW up in every way, I guess the last straw(s) have arrived on my back.
Sorry to hear it, Doug. Does your wife recognize that she's part of the problem? It's funny how parents are so often blinded when dealing with their own child.

Tough situation, I hope things work out well for you and your family.
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Old 11-30-2010, 07:16 AM   #173
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I'm all for unconditional love.

Too bad many ladies think they should only grant their love on condition of access to my money.

Are you possibly describing "conditional love"
Nothing wrong with that.

My late FIL made it clear to Spouse #2 that while he loved her would make a full and fair provision for her, he also loved his children and felt special obligations to them especially since he was supporting Spouse #2 with money he inherited from Spouse #1, which he felt he held in trust for her children including DW.

Similarly DW and I have a written agreement that while everything we both earn is true joint property, her inheritance from her parents is her separate money held for our children.

I certainly accept that there is a difference between a young marriage that looks forward to building a life together, and sharing its hardships. and an often later-in-life relationship that is essentially in the consumption phase. A true financial partnership may make sense in one area but not the other
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Old 11-30-2010, 08:04 AM   #174
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Wow. I just came back to this thread and skimmed through. It seems like the vast majority are down on marriage. That surprises me since it doesn't fit with my experiences - most of my friends have been married for years and don't express substantial angst. Maybe some of you poll constructors should develop a poll to gather more comprehensive views.

As to my experience, my first marriage was a typical youthful mistake but ended amicably. DW and I have been together 28 years, 26 married. The union has been emotionally and financially good for both of us and I can't imagine anything that would lead to a divorce at this stage (yah, I read the posts, I know it could still happen). If I had it to do over again I would sign up without a qualm. That said, I would not rush into another marriage if DW died. And, if I fell in love with someone I would not consider it without a carefully thought out pre-nup. To a certain extent DW and I have already addressed that by putting everything we own into a family trust.

One thing I didn't see mentioned from a financial benefits perspective is the spousal benefit attached to a pension. If I remarried my future wife would (could, depending on what I select) get a survivor benefit if she outlived me. That factor could counsel marrying to protect someone you loved.
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Old 11-30-2010, 09:43 AM   #175
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I certainly accept that there is a difference between a young marriage that looks forward to building a life together, and sharing its hardships. and an often later-in-life relationship that is essentially in the consumption phase. A true financial partnership may make sense in one area but not the other
Speaking of hardships... a lot of the quality of a later-in-life relationship depends on health.

I know several women (aged 50+) who have no interest in getting 'hitched' as they feel that his health will start to fail and they will end up playing nurse and eventually burying him.

omni
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Old 11-30-2010, 11:17 AM   #176
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Wow. I just came back to this thread and skimmed through. It seems like the vast majority are down on marriage. That surprises me since it doesn't fit with my experiences - most of my friends have been married for years and don't express substantial angst. Maybe some of you poll constructors should develop a poll to gather more comprehensive views.
There is a very high rate of marriage success among board members, which to some degree might reflect selection bias and also survival bias. No easier way to bust an ER than to create two marginal portfolios out of one substantial one, and suffer a lot of frictional loss in the transition.

Also the sort of person who will drive a used car forever, or wait years until some desired item can be found for 25 cents at a garage sale is not likely to be very impulsive in other areas either.

Marriage is not for intense satisfaction or for pleasure, it is for survival, (a feeling of) security, and contentment- and for the right persons it is very good for that purpose.

To get personal, it worked pretty well for me and my ex for many years.

Still, new circumstances allow for new thinking, and though few middle aged ER.org members would likely seek to improve their living by instigating a divorce, once presented with singleness, I am not surprised that a fair number of us have "been there, done that", and elect other paths. Some of us like broader social relationships than are often fostered in coupledom. I don't mean sexual , I actually mean social, as in the freedom to do what, with whom, and when you want to. Not a real common part of a typical marriage.

There is also the sexual angle. A young man may at least imagine that he would like to have his sex partner in house, and cut out on so much burning the candle at both ends going out to clubs etc meeting girls. So his GF moves in. Then, if he has a decent job and is not a totally unappealing man, she will often start a campaign to bring about the bride thing. Takes a strong man to say, OK, go ahead and leave, you are cute and sweet and wonderful in bed, and I even love you -but I don't want the rest. So often enough, he gets married.

But unless a 60+ year old man is hopelessly dependent, or rushing things before giving himself a chance to find out the good parts of being alone, this is not likely to happen, since for the amount of sex that he needs, it really isn't that big a deal to go across town once or twice a week. He may even find all he can handle in his building, or right in his cul-de-sac.

Ha
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Old 11-30-2010, 11:29 AM   #177
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Speaking of hardships... a lot of the quality of a later-in-life relationship depends on health.
I know several women (aged 50+) who have no interest in getting 'hitched' as they feel that his health will start to fail and they will end up playing nurse and eventually burying him.
Thanks, I've been looking for this opening!

I'm starting to notice that some of my classmates have made substantially different lifestyle choices than mine, mostly in the areas of alcohol and weight/fitness. When you remember how an athletic bombshell goddess looked in her 20s and then start getting reports of what she looks like in her late 40s... well... I still avoid looking at the recent photos. Maybe she'll cut back on the alcohol consumption and lose that 60-70 pounds before we meet again. When you notice that another friend's facial features are starting to acquire the broken capillaries frequently associated with excessive alcohol consumption, and his conversation has essentially regressed to brief statements like "You da man!" with no apparent memory of yesterday's conversation... well... I'll go converse with someone else for a while. Maybe he'll be back when he has a thoughtful question about ER.

Meanwhile they can't understand why I'd want to ER and miss out on all the good things in life.

The "Younger Next Year" book refers to this accelerated aging as the "Old Fred"* phenomenon. And although the divorce may be precipitated by the other person's filing, it could be argued that the marriage began ending when the first person stopped taking care of themselves. I'm all about the care & cherish part of the wedding vows, but I'm more motivated to uphold my part of that bargain if spouse upholds her own part for herself as well. Luckily what I've noticed in my classmates has scared her even worse than it's scared me.

*If you're a guy, no matter what physical condition you happen to be in right now, then I'd strongly recommend reading "Younger Next Year For Women" to see what they're planning to do to them about this issue. You've been warned.
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Old 11-30-2010, 11:30 AM   #178
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That's likely the usual. My Ex was the one that kept suggesting marriage.
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Old 11-30-2010, 11:38 AM   #179
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Truthfully I am all for love and remarriage if the situation arose. If something should happen to me I would want my DH to find someone else, I would hate him to be on his own for the rest of his life. That said, I have also made it quite clear to him that if this situation arose he should take care of the financial aspect before any such marriage happened to ensure he does not get fleeced. My DH is a bit naive when it comes to being taken for a ride.

I think you need to keep your heart open because if you don't let people into your life it must be very lonely. I think it is worth the risk of getting it broken a time or two if it means you gain more than you lose.

That said, I think it would be unlikely that I would ever remarry. I would be happy to enter into another relationship but I don't require that piece of paper to make me secure.
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Old 11-30-2010, 11:39 AM   #180
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I was (still am I guess), but spouse retained a new lawyer and she must have told spouse that parenting time=$. We were at 75% me/25% her, but new proposal is 50/50 parenting time.

Burden of proof to deviate from 50/50 is pretty high (felony, drug/alcohol issues, etc).

One of the issues I have with the whole process is that the judge can pretty much do whatever he/she wants in dividing assets. "Fair and equitible" is the only standard.

Obviously, my idea of fair and equitable is slightly slanted toward my own self interests. Only slightly tho.
I did NOT know this was happening to you right now, sorry to hear that............
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