The Case Against Remarriage

[Pete]

Even though I've been happily married for 28 years, I feel marriage/monogamy is far too much work to be "natural", and is more likely a cultural construct. The statistics are horrendous, especially considering how hard it is to get a divorce, the financial devastation, stigmas of the past (religious and otherwise), fear of STD's and Aids, etc. How about all the should be divorce statistics?...separated fathers and mothers who never got married? How about all the miserable people who never get divorced?
I've always believed in the evolutionary "standard narrative" that alpha males competed for sex with limited numbers of coy females. The book Sex At Dawn completely changed my mind. Here is a shorter article with some of the main points.
Monogamy unnatural for our sexy species - CNN.com

 

[youbet]

Are you trying to equate monogamy with marriage Pete?

 

[Emeritus]

To refocus on the FIRE issue, I am a big believer in antenuptial agreements for marriages between retired people. My late FIL had one and it solved a whole host of problems. I will say it did/does treat my "step-mother-in-law" very fairly. She has a lifetime personal residence right in the house, his federal survivor pension and an annuity that helps maintain the house. A separate fund he set up pays the taxes on the house. She is a very nice lady, and was a fine grandmother to my children who were both born after DW's mother died. But having a clear fair and fully funded deal prevented a lot of heartache.

 

[Danmar]

First marriage lasted 19years and ended in a very bitter and costly(for me- over $5million) I got a fantastic daughter out of the deal. Would do it again. Second wife (15years) is a saint and no doubt this one will last till you know. Shouldn't have gotten married so young the first time. People change a lot at least up to their early thirties I think.

 

[Emeritus]

Even though I've been happily married for 28 years, I feel marriage/monogamy is far too much work to be "natural", and is more likely a cultural construct.
Monogamy unnatural for our sexy species - CNN.com

Without question both Marriage and Monogamy are cultural constructs. They are very different. One of my Nigerian students was wrote her paper for my class on the problem of importing software that only has input fields for one wife. Many cultures also have a wide variety of types of marriage.

 

[Orchidflower]

Strangest of all to me is when I have commented that I would consider remarrying IF the right guy came along, every single woman I know who has been married for over 30 years (yes, I said every single woman) says to forget it, stay single so you don't have to answer to anyone else and can do what you want. This tells me something...



(Course, I like W2R's setup myself...)

 

[W2R]

I do not want to ever marry again, and Frank is willing to put up with that. He and I are happily unmarried.

"If it ain't broke, why fix it?"

It's a real plus/strength in today's world if a couple can separate the emotional and romantic aspects of their relationship from the financial and legal aspects and act appropriately. For older folks, say someone considering remarriage past mid-life after a death or divorce, the gov't is stacking the deck against marriage from a financial point of view.

+1 The above describes our situation. Our emotional and romantic committment to one another is as complete as anyone's, and that did not require any state sanctions.

(Course, I like W2R's setup myself...)

Why, thank you! I like it myself.

But each to his own, and for those married folks who are happy, I say "more power to you!" We all need to be happy in life and in our relationship or relationships, and whatever works is best.

 

[GregLee]

Perhaps I missed it, but I don't think anyone has mentioned the long term care issue. It's surprising. One might want to remarry to have someone to help with the difficulties of old age.

 

[W2R]

Perhaps I missed it, but I don't think anyone has mentioned the long term care issue. It's surprising. One might want to remarry to have someone to help with the difficulties of old age.

If you are not married, and your partner wants to take care of you when you need it, in either the short or long term, then the problem is solved. Commitments like that do not require state sanction. I would not marry someone to force him to take care of me if he really didn't want be doing that.

One nice thing about being unmarried (and in my case, not living together and with completely separate finances) is the Medicaid issue, at least as I understand it. It seems to me that if one partner needs to spend down his money to qualify for Medicaid, the other partner's money is not involved and would not have to be spent down as well. So I would speculate that he/she is not left destitute after the sick partner dies or is dying.

 

[Sarah in SC]

I would far rather be in the position where I could pay someone to care for me in old age than rely on a spouse, boyfriend, or child to take care of me <shudder>.

Jim, I'm sorry to hear things haven't worked out for y'all, but it is probably for the best to go ahead and get it over with.

 

[omni550]

Perhaps I missed it, but I don't think anyone has mentioned the long term care issue. It's surprising. One might want to remarry to have someone to help with the difficulties of old age.

Along these lines, does anyone know the specifics of trying to have a [not married to you] SO take care of you when you are not able to express your own wishes (e.g. unconscious, suffering from dementia, etc.)?

omni

 

[W2R]

I would far rather be in the position where I could pay someone to care for me in old age than rely on a spouse, boyfriend, or child to take care of me <shudder>.

+1 The thought of marrying someone that I might not otherwise marry, in order to obtain a caregiver seems pretty ghoulish to me. I'd rather take financial responsibility for my LTC.

 

[audreyh1]

First marriage in mid-twenties was a disaster. Fortunately brief.

Second marriage in early-thirties - fantastic. Still really enjoying this one. Hope we have many more decades together.

I have a feeling like some folks I learned a lot from my first experience that helped me find a much better/more compatible partner. The 30+ statistic may also be telling.

Never planned to have kids so that was never a motivation, but I enjoy being married to my best friend and having a household together.

Audrey

 

[Jay_Gatsby]

Strangest of all to me is when I have commented that I would consider remarrying IF the right guy came along, every single woman I know who has been married for over 30 years (yes, I said every single woman) says to forget it, stay single so you don't have to answer to anyone else and can do what you want. This tells me something...
(Course, I like W2R's setup myself...)

This seems a bit of a contradiction to real life. The stereotype, and there is some significant truth to it, is that in long-married couples the wife is more likely to be the one telling the husband what he can and cannot do. Hence the term "henpecked husband." Likewise, women are the ones often clamoring for marriage, so perhaps the advice you received is the voice of experience (i.e., don't push to get married so much, it's not all it's cracked up to be).

 

[vicente solano]

Save for serious money losses (taxes, pensions...) I would marry again. Too old fashioned not to----- if I wanted to live with that person. Where I live peer and social pressure still count

 

[Sarah in SC]

This seems a bit of a contradiction to real life. The stereotype, and there is some significant truth to it, is that in long-married couples the wife is more likely to be the one telling the husband what he can and cannot do. Hence the term "henpecked husband." Likewise, women are the ones often clamoring for marriage, so perhaps the advice you received is the voice of experience (i.e., don't push to get married so much, it's not all it's cracked up to be).

This stereotype of girls clamoring for marriage is not evident among my cohort. Maybe drinkers are self-selecting.

But I can assure you that the widows I work with would never remarry. They lost husbands in their 40s and have been enjoying life quote: "without someone telling them what to do."

 

[Danmar]

A good marriage is a real blessing. When your best friend is your spouse it doesn't seem like someone is telling you what to do. On the other hand a bad marriage is ..... Well you know.

 

[GregLee]

One nice thing about being unmarried (and in my case, not living together and with completely separate finances) is the Medicaid issue, at least as I understand it. It seems to me that if one partner needs to spend down his money to qualify for Medicaid, the other partner's money is not involved and would not have to be spent down as well.

There are special provisions to prevent a spouse from becoming impoverished by Medicaid spend-down, and also to prevent a home being taken from a spouse, even though Medicaid may have a lien which can only be exercised after the spouse's death. I think. (No one should rely on this as advice).

 

[haha]

This seems a bit of a contradiction to real life. The stereotype, and there is some significant truth to it, is that in long-married couples the wife is more likely to be the one telling the husband what he can and cannot do. Hence the term "henpecked husband." Likewise, women are the ones often clamoring for marriage, so perhaps the advice you received is the voice of experience (i.e., don't push to get married so much, it's not all it's cracked up to be).

From what I have seen both sexes can get pretty controlling, perhaps in different ways. It is easy to criticize this, but actually I can see where it comes from. Each spouse is kind of stuck with the other's decisions, for better or worse. And that can get you into a lot of trouble.

OTOH, if you discover that your boyfriend is an idiot, you can at least chuck him with minimum cost.

Ha

 

[audreyh1]

Strangest of all to me is when I have commented that I would consider remarrying IF the right guy came along, every single woman I know who has been married for over 30 years (yes, I said every single woman) says to forget it, stay single so you don't have to answer to anyone else and can do what you want. This tells me something...

I don't have anyone telling me what to do. I can't imagine being married to anyone who thought they could tell me what to do. Yes, we make many decisions together, but I don't see that as "answering to anyone". We're a team. There is a lot of cooperation. We both enjoy that.

Audrey

 

[dex]

I feel marriage/monogamy is far too much work to be "natural", and is more likely a cultural construct.
Monogamy unnatural for our sexy species - CNN.com

There was a theory that I read that said men and women were meant to be together for about 7 years; about the time to raise a child.

 

[BigNick]

My friend is a union negotiator, who was formerly an Ivy League philosophy instructor. To him, the analysis is simple. He cannot know what it is like to be in a marriage without running the risk of a difficult and expensive exit, so he analyzes it from the outside. Almost 50% of couples divorce, more than that % in our city. So marriage is a failing project for at least 50% of men. (leaving aside that for some women and some rare men it can be an emotional failure but a financial success). Of the 50% who do not get divorced, how many stay for financial reasons or other reasons different from emotional gratification within marriage? How many would love to leave, but don't want to pay the fee? It cannot be none, so marriage is therefore a net loser for men as a group, and possibly for women.

I'm a nerd, at least by upbringing, but I know that it ain't right to analyse the most important things in life as if they were stock picks or insurance policies.

Aside from that, the logic doesn't even hold up. Even if 50% of couples divorce and 20% more are unhappy, you haven't shown that marriage is a bad bet, unless the only definition of success is that you're still together and smiling until you die.

Is a 25-year marriage with great kids which ends in divorce because one partner had an ill-advised fling or psychological problems after 24 years, to be written off as a total failure? If my wife [-]finds out about the gimp suit[/-] runs off with her boss tomorrow, I don't think I'd look at our marriage that way. (Her boss is female, so maybe if I was nice about it they'd... no, never mind.)

It's ironic to have that sort if view on this board, where people are normally pretty objective about the value of things over time...

 

[Walt34]

I'll offer an example of what I think is the gold standard of marital commitment. A guy at work married a wonderful girl, everything goes well for about five years.

Then she came down with multiple sclerosis. I knew them for twelve years, and during all that time she was in a wheel chair or one of those motorized scooter things. The last two years of her life she was bedridden, and when it came to that, he fed her, changed her clothes, bathed her, and changed her diapers.

From the time she got sick to the time she passed away spanned eighteen years.

That is commitment.

The guy must be an optimist. He got married again three years ago.

 

[Khan]

Speaking from inexperience, IMHO the only logical reason to get married is "for the kids". Past the age of parenthood (at least for females) marriage seems to introduce unnecessary complications.

How about to get health insurance? (my situation)

 

[Khan]

This seems a bit of a contradiction to real life. The stereotype, and there is some significant truth to it, is that in long-married couples the wife is more likely to be the one telling the husband what he can and cannot do. Hence the term "henpecked husband." Likewise, women are the ones often clamoring for marriage, so perhaps the advice you received is the voice of experience (i.e., don't push to get married so much, it's not all it's cracked up to be).

I'm one of those 'contradictions'.

You've not spent years wondering what behaviors would not be acceptable that day.

As have mentioned, he was the one that wanted to get married.