The Case Against Remarriage

[Orchidflower]

Perhaps I missed it, but I don't think anyone has mentioned the long term care issue. It's surprising. One might want to remarry to have someone to help with the difficulties of old age.

Yes, I'm sure he would.

 

[haha]

Is a 25-year marriage with great kids which ends in divorce because one partner had an ill-advised fling or psychological problems after 24 years, to be written off as a total failure? <>It's ironic to have that sort if view on this board, where people are normally pretty objective about the value of things over time...

First off, I would never end a marriage because my wife had an affair, or perhaps even if she wanted to continue it. It would also open up possibilities for me.

If your kids are grown, as mine almost were, and if the marraige was fun, as mine was, and if the divorce was civil and it didn't drop anyone into poverty at a hard time to do anything about it, then I would say it was a successful marriage. However, that is a lot of ifs, and there likely are other relationshops that can support child rearing that are not so hard to exit.

I have heard your POV before, but never before from a man.

Ha

 

[SVHoper]

Along these lines, does anyone know the specifics of trying to have a [not married to you] SO take care of you when you are not able to express your own wishes (e.g. unconscious, suffering from dementia, etc.)?

omni

In California, I downloaded their suggested Advance Health Care Directive form which contains a Power of Attorney for Health Care... it says nothing about your agent being a spouse - which I think makes sense as often it is children.

 

[youbet]

The article Ha posted really is refering to remarriages later in life and the importance of considering the financial implications that the remarriage might have on estate planning, pensions, SS, alimony, future obligations of the new spouse, etc. It wasn't so much a commentary on the lovey-dovey aspect of being married or not as it is a warning to do your homework before re-establishing legal obligations and commitments to a second spouse.

As stated before, DW and I have been together since we were teens and married at 22. We've climbed a lot of walls together and both feel fortunate to have each other as partners in living life as we wanted, raising a family and now enjoying FIRE.

Despite having enjoyed this marriage so much, I can't imagine, at this stage of life, wanting to start another one if DW was gone. The legal implications and complications would be a total turnoff for me. I'm sure I'd eventually enjoy having a "special friend" but the relationship would have to revolve around good times and shared interests, not formalized, legal commitments. My current extended family would always come first and I'd expect her current extended family to be first for her as well. And finances would never co-mingle.

I watched my dad cope with this after my mother died and currently have 2 life long friends who are dating in their 60's, one due to divorce and one due to death of his spouse. All had or have feelings similar to mine and it seems to be absolutely no problem to women (in general) that marriage will not be part of the equation, although love, friendship and a lot of shared good times will be.

 

[Tiger]

My first marriage ended in divorce after 18 years and 3 children. I was with my second wife for 35 years (married for 32), she passed azway this past January (I was her caretaker for 4 years).

I have met a wonderful woman that I want to marry.

Never say never.

 

[youbet]

My first marriage ended in divorce after 18 years and 3 children. I was with my second wife for 35 years (married for 32), she passed azway this past January (I was her caretaker for 4 years).

I have met a wonderful woman that I want to marry.

Never say never.

Read the article. Do your homework. If formal, legal marriage is what both of you want, lawyers can help you keep any commitments to current family despite the new arrangement. And it's fairly easy to determine if income sources such as SS, pensions, annuities or the like will be impacted.

My own opinion is that formal, legal marriage (actually we're talking about remarriage later in life) would be too much of a hassle given that modern society, in general, holds no bias against "special friends" living life together. Of course, if marriage has a special meaning to you, or you belong to a religious group or social group that would frown on a man and a woman being close without the appropriate paperwork, then go for it.

 

[haha]

The article Ha posted really is refering to remarriages later in life and the importance of considering the financial implications that the remarriage might have on estate planning, pensions, SS, alimony, future obligations of the new spouse, etc. It wasn't so much a commentary on the lovey-dovey aspect of being married or not as it is a warning to do your homework before re-establishing legal obligations and commitments to a second spouse.

Youbet, you are certainly correct about that. However, when I read it it didn't take long before I reverse engineered the article and was imagining what my feelings would be if my former wife was avoiding marriage in order to continue to be supported by my alimony.

No warm fuzzies that is for sure!

"Hello divorced man, welcome to your new life as a pure beast of burden!"

Ha

 

[youbet]

it it didn't take long before I reverse engineered the article and was imagining what my feelings would be if my former wife was avoiding marriage in order to continue to be supported by my alimony.

No warm fuzzies that is for sure!

"Hello divorced man, welcome to your new life as a pure beast of burden!"

Ha, if you were geographically closer, we'd be meeting at the pub so I could tell you the story of my life long friend (met in kindergarten!) and his divorce. The divorce was sad. But the party we had when his ex-DW married Mr Well-To-Do and ended her ongoing claims to a share of his business and to ongoing alimony payments was fabulous!

Yep, she had been resisting remarriage to keep the string of alimony payments and an ongoing effort to obtain a share of the family business intact. Fortunately her new guy is wealthy beyond words and he took care of her loss of income in the pre-nup so she gave in.

So I guess it's a point of view thing. If you're paying the alimony, you want the ex to remarry. If you're receiving the alimony, you have to consider that it will likely go away if you remarry.

I hope this works out for you....... Will there be a party?

 

[W2R]

You guys just HAVE to be kidding. Does alimony even exist any more? Women are pretty close to half the work force, as I recall. The whole idea seem so antiquated in the 21st century.

 

[Khan]

You guys just HAVE to be kidding. Does alimony even exist any more? Women are pretty close to half the work force, as I recall. The whole idea seem so antiquated in the 21st century.

I keep hearing about the huge alimony payments.

As distinct from child support.

I got a year of house payments.

 

[W2R]

I keep hearing about the huge alimony payments.

As distinct from child support.

I got a year of house payments.

I asked for (and got) nothing. He got the house, the furniture, the boat, etc. Oh, I did get something - - a junker car on its last legs, and an 8 year old sofa, my books, and my clothes, $1000 in the checking account (and my rent was due).... and my freedom. Definitely a great deal IMO.

 

[travelover]

You guys just HAVE to be kidding. Does alimony even exist any more? Women are pretty close to half the work force, as I recall. The whole idea seem so antiquated in the 21st century.

It is not uncommon for divorced women to convince judges that they are no longer able to work (anecdotally).

 

[W2R]

It is not uncommon for divorced women to convince judges that they are no longer able to work (anecdotally).

Pardon my skepticism, but if they have been working for the past ten or twenty years just like their husbands, then what, they quit and run to divorce court? And their husbands don't? Sounds more anecdotal than real to me.

 

[travelover]

Pardon my skepticism, but if they have been working for the past ten or twenty years then what, they quit and run to divorce court? Sounds more anecdotal than real to me.

Could be, but it was real for the guys payin'.

 

[W2R]

I guess I'm just uninformed, because none of the divorced women I have heard from (anecdotally) in recent years have got a dime of alimony. It's pretty hard to justify in court when you have a solid work record, I would imagine.

Edited to add: Thinking on it, I guess maybe there are some who get alimony but I just don't know any.

 

[travelover]

I guess I'm just uninformed, because none of the divorced women I have heard from (anecdotally) in recent years have got a dime of alimony. It's pretty hard to justify in court when you have a solid work record, I would imagine.

I think that the likelihood of alimony varies region to region - here even from county to county.

 

[Tigger]

You guys just HAVE to be kidding. Does alimony even exist any more? Women are pretty close to half the work force, as I recall. The whole idea seem so antiquated in the 21st century.

"Many divorce agreements provide for alimony or spouse-support payments, which is separate from child-support payments. Americans gave $9.4 billion to former spouses in 2007, up from $5.6 billion a decade earlier, according to the Internal Revenue Service. Men accounted for 97% of alimony-payers last year, according to the U.S. Census Bureau, although the share of women supporting ex-husbands is on the rise."
The New Art of Alimony - WSJ.com

 

[Nords]

They lost husbands in their 40s and have been enjoying life quote: "without someone telling them what to do."

I rarely laugh out loud when reading this board, and even more rarely loud enough to pique my spouse's curiosity from the next room... but the idea of someone at Hale Nords "telling my spouse what to do" is pretty funny.

We've known each other for over 30 years. Three years together at the same college struggling to get through the program, three more years of "distance" juggling schedules to get together before we finally were in a position to get married, and then another 15 years of uniting against shared adversity with Navy careers. Parenting, too. Maybe that sort of pulling in harness keeps things growing strong, or maybe at this point we've become complementary enough that we find it difficult to be without each other...

 

[haha]

I guess I'm just uninformed, because none of the divorced women I have heard from (anecdotally) in recent years have got a dime of alimony. It's pretty hard to justify in court when you have a solid work record, I would imagine.

Edited to add: Thinking on it, I guess maybe there are some who get alimony but I just don't know any.

The author might be uniformed, but she presents the loss of alimony as a major problem with remarriage.

And, no, alimony is not gone though it's high time it were. I didn't pay any, but I know guys who do. The length of the marriage can be a big factor. It is usually called spousal support, though perhaps it should be called penance.

Likely if both "partners" had similar earnings histories, it would not be awarded. But statistically that is not the most common situation.

Ha

 

[haha]

"Many divorce agreements provide for alimony or spouse-support payments, which is separate from child-support payments. Americans gave $9.4 billion to former spouses in 2007, up from $5.6 billion a decade earlier, according to the Internal Revenue Service. Men accounted for 97% of alimony-payers last year, according to the U.S. Census Bureau, although the share of women supporting ex-husbands is on the rise."
The New Art of Alimony - WSJ.com

Wow. Men, read this and you will be cured forever of romantic love.

Ha

 

[W2R]

Likely if both "partners" had similar earnings histories, it would not be awarded. But statistically that is not the most common situation.

Ha

That's probably why I haven't heard of any divorced women that I know, getting alimony. Most are women with advanced degrees and careers, and earning decent salaries.

Wow. Men, read this and you will be cured forever of romantic love.

Ha

It's awful! Massachusetts divorce rulings look especially bad.

But the way I see it (through my cynical divorcee eyes), marriage is a financial arrangement that is not necessarily required for romantic love. So love all you want - - just don't pull out that diamond ring.

 

[youbet]

Does alimony even exist any more?.

Yes

 

[ProspectiveBum]

You guys just HAVE to be kidding. Does alimony even exist any more? Women are pretty close to half the work force, as I recall. The whole idea seem so antiquated in the 21st century.

I know a surprising number of single-earner families. DW and I are both engineers, and she currently earns a bit more than I do (though we've traded top-earner status several times over the years). I'm glad that we have this arrangement, as there's absolutely no sense of being anything but equal partners. I don't *think* that would change if one of stopped working tomorrow, but many of the sole-earner guys i know express frustration at being the sole breadwinner.

If we were to separate due to death or divorce, I don't think I would remarry, mostly because I can't imagine finding somebody that I connect with like I do DW. If I were to meet someone that I felt that way for, I wouldn't hesitate to marry her.

 

[Calgary_Girl]

the-case-against-remarriage: Personal Finance News from Yahoo! Finance

Also take a look at the comments. It seems that an article giving the advantages of avoiding remarriage, also for men at least is a good tutorial on why one should perhaps avoid marriage altogether.

If you live in Canada, I would go even one step further and say that people should even avoid "shacking up" (from a purely financial perspective of course ). I'm not sure what the laws are like in The States, but in Canada, "common law" partnerships enjoy some of the same benefits of married couples. It varies from province to province however so it's a very gray area.

In Alberta for example, a person in a common law relationship (who have been living together for a minimum of 3 years) has the right to spousal support and various estate rights if the couple were to go their separate ways.

 

[Calgary_Girl]

You guys just HAVE to be kidding. Does alimony even exist any more? Women are pretty close to half the work force, as I recall. The whole idea seem so antiquated in the 21st century.

Women may represent half the workforce but they still 1) typically earn less than men for the same amount/quality of work; and 2) have taken time away from their careers to have/raise children.