The Case Against Remarriage

[RunningBum]

Well, you can generate some income renting one of the homes, and maybe writeoffs and stuff can make it tax efficient, but putting one in your name and one in his is suspicious. Have him put the numbers together for you showing how it would be with both titled in both names, and then titled how he proposes. I don't see how that can help any. It does sound like a prelim to a divorce.

To the last two posters, I don't see where one home is to be owned free and clear. It's still suspicious, but not as bad as you are saying.

[KingB]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ready-4-ER-at-14 Regarding what is fair, you divide the pile but let me have first pick. Or let me divide the pile and let you have first pick.

This is a good idea. My dad, now deceased, taught me this lesson too.

The husband's motive may not be what she is thinking. It may be that he is trying to establish a credit for the wife on her own.

[Ready-4-ER-at-14]

Quote:

Originally Posted by RunningBum To the last two posters, I don't see where one home is to be owned free and clear. It's still suspicious, but not as bad as you are saying.

You are right. When I reread the post she initials only talks about a mortgage on the home she would own. It sounded like most of the assets were used to purchase the first home.

Later on she talks about two mortgages.

It makes me wonder if the amount of net assets minus mortgages in each name are similar then?

[devans0]

I could make a case for downsizing and buying additional real estate at a low price. It doesn't make sense to do what he is doing if he is planning a divorce, either, at least not in my state. In Iowa, he would end up having to pay you for your equity share in the marriage assets, and would have to cough up a big bunch of cash. If the real estate double-dips, he could end up selling his paid off house to pay you.

YMMV depending upon where you live. It may be time to talk to a lawyer.

[Ready-4-ER-at-14]

I just reread this entire thread. I have to admit it evoked some emotions.

I have been in a relationship almost all of my adult life and really all of them were good. Can't say I've ever had a bad date, a bad hug, or a bad smile. Probably every person I dated could have been a life partner, just with lesser amounts of satisfaction.

Even the marriage that ended after 15 years or so was pretty good right up to the end.
Legal system left some vicious scars but there really wasn't that much money to take.

This marriage has been pretty good for 24+ years and even should I be summarily dismissed and rebuked for some sudden recognition of my being human and having faults, I think I would shake it off and when ready venture into the deep end of the pool again. Probably some chance encounter would blossom as has before.

No gold digger would bother to meet me as I display none of the trappings of excessiveness and I am much too hard to meet.

[haha]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ready-4-ER-at-14 I just reread this entire thread. I have to admit it evoked some emotions. I have been in a relationship almost all of my adult life and really all of them were good. Can't say I've ever had a bad date, a bad hug, or a bad smile. Probably every person I dated could have been a life partner, just with lesser amounts of satisfaction. Even the marriage that ended after 15 years or so was pretty good right up to the end. Legal system left some vicious scars but there really wasn't that much money to take. This marriage has been pretty good for 24+ years and even should I be summarily dismissed and rebuked for some sudden recognition of my being human and having faults, I think I would shake it off and when ready venture into the deep end of the pool again. Probably some chance encounter would blossom as has before. No gold digger would bother to meet me as I display none of the trappings of excessiveness and I am much too hard to meet.

I agree with you, though not all the way to that life partner part. Women overall are a pretty good deal even when they are bad.

Still, a marriage is a whole different proposition and I cannot understand doing it more than once. Too much law, complications, and compromise are in our lives already, why invite more?

Ha

[frank]

I think I would go with the living together thing. I have been married for 40 years and never regretted one moment. I would like to have a companion for remaining years but marriage, I don't know.

[Moemg]

I just reread this old thread and we have covered everything but having all the important documents in place if you are unmarried but living together not just the ones that say who gets what . A Power of Attorney and a Health care surrogate . I would hate to have my SO of eleven years not be able to make health care decisions for me or manage my finances when I am critically ill .

[haha]

I hope Lauliza will return and tell us what her husband said when she asked him about his plans.

Ha

[lauliza]

TO be a little more clear on this, the house we own now we did pay off and is deeded in both of our names. Also, we both have been professionals with good incomes and have our own money. He made more and does have some of his own money from family real estate deeded to him before we married and since sold. He has two houses in mind that he loves in the same town we live in now. His plan is to now sell our current, jointly owned house, divide the money, and purchase these two new houses with a mortgage on each, one for him, one for me. Also with one deeded to him, one to me. I did ask an attorney and in Mass. it is true that any property purchased during marriage is 50/50, no matter who mortgages it or whose name is on the deed. My husband says it is a tax benefit to each have a mortgage, and we can both pay off each with the proceeds from our current home. I understand that part. He pointed out that the property taxes on both houses are lower than the current one. I replied back that (obviously) added together two real estate taxes end up exactly the same, actually a little more, than the current property tax on the house we own now. Its just that I would presumably pay one bill while he pays the other. He can clam up when he doesn't want to talk, so I assume my suspicions are correct. If there is any real financial benefit to this, can someone let me know? So far, all I have found out is that the arrangement makes no sense financially unless he wants to be sure we own separate properties in case we divorce. We have not had a good marriage for a while, so I see that. Also, to point out while one house is bigger than the other, both are quite nice and suitable for year round living with the kids, especially if it were only three people and not four. He grew up in larger houses, so that is what he is accustomed to. I guess the writing is on the wall, but when I try to get a logical answer from him I see no logic. Yes, it is not devious in that he is trying to take any money away from me, this is fair if we were to split up. But staying together? I can't imagine any other financial benefit of this. I guess I'm trying to see if there is any logic out there and I don't want to really share this info with those close to me yet as I am sure the reactions would be suspicious as well...

[DeborahB]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lauliza He wants to pay off the house we live in now and have both houses mortgaged, one by him, one by me. And then each one deeded to him, one to me. I did ask an attorney and in Mass. it is true that any property purchased during marriage is 50/50, no matter who mortgages it or whose name is on the deed. My husband says it makes for better taxes, but I don't believe that either. I believe when we file, its better to own jointly. And even if the property taxes on both houses are lower, added together they are the same as the tax current property tax on the house we own now. Its just that I would presumably pay one bill while he pays the other. He plays silent on it, so I assume my suspicions are correct. If there is any real financial benefit to this, can someone let me know? So far, all I have found out is that the arrangement makes no sense financially unless he wants to be sure we own separate properties in case we divorce. We have not had a good marriage for a while, so I see that. We both have been professionals and have our own money.

I think you need to consult your CPA - and if you don't have one, find one. Possibly also a tax attorney. The fact that your husband has not been forthcoming about the details of "why" it would benefit you makes me very uncomfortable. If he is doing something appropriate, he should have no issue with having it evaluated by a tax professional. That's just a logical step to take.

It's not obvious to me why this would be good for you. AT ALL. Good luck with it.

[growing_older]

In my opinion, a consultation with a CPA is less important than a consultation with a divorce attorney. I'm not suggesting that you initiate a divorce, unless that is what you want, but I am suggesting that you should be aware of how your state views property and tends to divide it in case of divorce. If there are children involved, most states are very likely to try to preserve some kind of status quo, so if he can make a case that you have been living in your house and he was living in his, they are much more likely to be divided that way. Once a spouse moved out of a house, courts here have been much less likely to award that spouse any rights to that house. Your state may differ, but only a local attorney will be able to suggest whatever actions are danger areas for your situation.

[Amethyst]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lauliza He can clam up when he doesn't want to talk, ...We have not had a good marriage for a while... when I try to get a logical answer from him I see no logic... I don't want to really share this info with those close to me yet as I am sure the reactions would be suspicious as well...

Lauliza,

I think your fears are well founded based on your own comments, which I have extracted above. If your marriage has other problems, your husband clams up when you dare to question his logic, and you feel those close to you would also be suspicious, those are big, flapping, red flags. I'd see a CPA and/or attorney. What can you lose, other than their initial fee. Best of luck to you in this uncomfortable situation.

Amethyst

[Ready-4-ER-at-14]

Several of the people have now suggested this lady see a lawyer.

Not that this is inappropriate behavior but have you ever gone to a surgeon who did not think that a surgery was a reasonable thing to consider?

Guess I am the sentimentalist here, but is there anything worth saving? Had this not come up would you have wanted to seek out an attorney anyway? Questions to ask your self and not to answer here as none of our business and a deeply personal thing to you.

[jerome len]

Try this; write out his plan,get him to agree that it is his plan, ask him the advantages, add them to the plan and then take it to a good CPA after tax season and ask the tax advantages. Maybe he's right, maybe he's wrong.

After you get the advice of a CPA, you can tackle this directly with him. Lawyers scare everyone, a CPA could be a mutual friend.

You have the choice of confronting or ignoring the situation. Every relationship should be open, honest and transparent. Don't waste time trying to figure out what he is doing, do the "right thing for the right reasons" and see what happens.

this blog can't give you the answer, the answer is in the heart and mind of you and your husband..........the very best of good luck!

[KingB]

Before seeing an attorney or a CPA, why not try a marriage counselor first.

[growing_older]

I think the idea of seeing an attorney is not to start any kind of divorce. It's to get an understanding of what certain financial moves can mean IF there is a divorce. I don't understand what the motive for wanting separate houses might be, but it would be good to know if it would materially affect how assets are handled and at least know what is being requested. The idea is to avoid a situation where one spouse (possibly having inside information from their attorney) manipulates the family assets and finances in such a way that when they eventually do file for a divorce, the unknowing spouse is put at a huge disadvantage. These issues are handled differently by each state, so you have to understand how your state makes the rules. Most attorneys will do this kind of consultation without charge and you certainly do not want to tell your spouse you are consulting an attorney or learning about property rules in your state. Once you have some knowledge, by all means try to understand spouse's intention or get him to a marriage counselor if needed. I'd still suggest getting the knowledge (talking to the attorney) first.

[haha]

This is the thread that just keeps on giving.

Ha

[Martha]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lauliza My husband says it is a tax benefit to each have a mortgage, and we can both pay off each with the proceeds from our current home. . . . If there is any real financial benefit to this, can someone let me know? So far, all I have found out is that the arrangement makes no sense financially unless he wants to be sure we own separate properties in case we divorce.

I can't think of any. And why is he choosing the houses? Sounds like a power difference in this marriage. Given your gut is telling you something is wrong, I would consult with a lawyer to talk about your rights and how your state likely would deal with your assets if in fact you do get divorced.

Some suggested counseling. Ever try it? Ever suggest it with your spouse? I have mixed feelings on its helpfulness.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ready-4-ER-at-14 Several of the people have now suggested this lady see a lawyer. Not that this is inappropriate behavior but have you ever gone to a surgeon who did not think that a surgery was a reasonable thing to consider? Guess I am the sentimentalist here, but is there anything worth saving? Had this not come up would you have wanted to seek out an attorney anyway? Questions to ask your self and not to answer here as none of our business and a deeply personal thing to you.

I have never known a divorce lawyer that pushes divorce on anyone. That is not the lawyers job.

[Blackwoodt]

Would I marry again if something happened to my husband? Heck no, I wasn't looking for anyone when he came along, he just wouldn't go away, and wouldn't take the 'let's just be friends' for an answer either.

It's been over 20+ happy years, and he enjoys reminding me on a regular basis, that he's fully vested in my investments.