Join Early Retirement Today
Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
The cavalry ain't comin' to the destroyed Bahamas quickly enough
Old 09-07-2019, 03:27 PM   #1
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 9,719
The cavalry ain't comin' to the destroyed Bahamas quickly enough

I found this to be a great article about what happens when a natural disaster happens:

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/07/w...an-relief.html

Basically, citizens are angry that there is not instant relief to their plights. They forget about things like the government doesn't even own any helicopters and that First Responders have their own families to stabilize and many other basic things. Plus no one can imagine that someone else might be worse off than they are.

That is, the world does not revolve around people who have been wiped off the face of an island.

I've kinda known all this after experiencing personally hurricanes such as Sandy, Ike, Rita, Harvey, and some others. Cash won't help you no matter what people say. You had better be able to camp without any external power, fuel, water, food, medicine, or news for a few weeks at a time. Or you need multiple ways to get out of the disaster zone without any help from anybody else. If you can't do these things, then you need to get out ahead of time if you get any notice of impending doom. It is better to get out ahead of time and then nothing happen than to be stuck when the SHTF.
__________________

LOL! is offline  
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 09-07-2019, 03:50 PM   #2
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
zinger1457's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,095
With rising sea levels it does make one wonder if places like the Bahamas are even worth rebuilding. The islands are barely above sea level as it is and it will only get worse.
__________________

zinger1457 is offline  
Old 09-07-2019, 04:03 PM   #3
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 746
Quote:
Originally Posted by zinger1457 View Post
With rising sea levels it does make one wonder if places like the Bahamas are even worth rebuilding. The islands are barely above sea level as it is and it will only get worse.


I guess someone could say that about New Orleans being below sea level. Although I would agree economic value in the latter is more. Historic or cultural ties and connection to the land carry big value in the is it worth it camp.
JDARNELL is offline  
Old 09-07-2019, 04:20 PM   #4
Full time employment: Posting here.
lemming's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 505
I am so sorry you had to listen to those complainers.
__________________
.
lemming is online now  
Old 09-07-2019, 04:39 PM   #5
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
NW-Bound's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 25,111
Quote:
Originally Posted by zinger1457 View Post
With rising sea levels it does make one wonder if places like the Bahamas are even worth rebuilding. The islands are barely above sea level as it is and it will only get worse.
Where would the Bahamians go? Any country willing to adopt them? There are only 400,000 of them, not too many.

It's good to hear the US Coast Guard is helping with the rescue.
__________________
"Old age is the most unexpected of all things that can happen to a man" -- Leon Trotsky
NW-Bound is online now  
Old 09-07-2019, 04:44 PM   #6
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
frayne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: 19th Hole
Posts: 2,963
I couldn't and doubt if many here could begin to imagine the logistics of getting these poor souls the help they need, in a timely fashion much less the rebuilding effort. Good bless the first responders and the Red Cross.
__________________
A totally unblemished life is only for saints.
frayne is offline  
Old 09-07-2019, 04:58 PM   #7
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
timo2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Bernalillo
Posts: 2,005
Quote:
Originally Posted by zinger1457 View Post
With rising sea levels it does make one wonder if places like the Bahamas are even worth rebuilding. The islands are barely above sea level as it is and it will only get worse.

So we should also abandon all the barrier islands on the east coast of the USA?



If humans abandoned everyplace that ever had a natural disaster, there would be few places left to inhabit. It is the repeat natural disasters that repeatedly happen in the same spots that are annoying. Like flooding along the rivers in the Midwest. There is no way places with repeated issues should be rebuilt. Now if a Cat 5 hit the same islands every other year, that would be a different situation.
__________________
"We live the lives we lead because of the thoughts we think" Michael O’Neill

"We can cannot compel others to do our will" Norman Goldman
timo2 is offline  
Old 09-07-2019, 05:02 PM   #8
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
NW-Bound's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 25,111
Quote:
Originally Posted by timo2 View Post
So we should also abandon all the barrier islands on the east coast of the USA?

If humans abandoned everyplace that ever had a natural disaster, there would be few places left to inhabit. It is the repeat natural disasters that repeatedly happen in the same spots that are annoying. Like flooding along the rivers in the Midwest. There is no way places with repeated issues should be rebuilt. Now if a Cat 5 hit the same islands every other year, that would be a different situation.
Well, the barrier islands of the US are mainly vacation homes, I suspect. And they are a minuscule percentage of the US landmass.

On the other hand, Bahamas is a country of 700 low-lying islands. There's no place for the Bahamians to go.
__________________
"Old age is the most unexpected of all things that can happen to a man" -- Leon Trotsky
NW-Bound is online now  
Old 09-07-2019, 05:14 PM   #9
Full time employment: Posting here.
davebarnes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Berkeley, Denver, CO, USA
Posts: 725
Can we buy the Bahamas?
__________________
Dave Barnes
Old (70.8) Fart Nerd
AA 73/24/3, WR=3.6%, 91.6% retired, still working 1/2ish hrs/day
davebarnes is offline  
Old 09-07-2019, 05:21 PM   #10
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
RAE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: northern Michigan
Posts: 1,548
Quote:
Originally Posted by LOL! View Post
You had better be able to camp without any external power, fuel, water, food, medicine, or news for a few weeks at a time. Or you need multiple ways to get out of the disaster zone without any help from anybody else. If you can't do these things, then you need to get out ahead of time if you get any notice of impending doom. It is better to get out ahead of time and then nothing happen than to be stuck when the SHTF.
While this may be true, the reality is that the majority of people will NEVER be prepared to live for weeks at a time without power, fuel, water, etc. (especially in a place like the Bahamas). I don't think it's realistic to think (or expect) that many people would be able to do something like that. Further, a lot of people don't have the means or ability to evacuate ahead of time, either. Either they don't have the $$, or they have family obligations that mean they can't just leave (elderly parents, etc). Sure, if I (with the resources that I have) had been on Abaco and I knew that Category 5 Dorian was headed straight at me, I would have left. But you can't expect that a majority of Bahamians would be able to do the same thing.
RAE is offline  
Old 09-07-2019, 05:25 PM   #11
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 9,719
Quote:
Originally Posted by JDARNELL View Post
I guess someone could say that about New Orleans being below sea level. Although I would agree economic value in the latter is more. Historic or cultural ties and connection to the land carry big value in the is it worth it camp.
New Orleans has not recovered to the population level pre-Katrina:
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LAORLE0POP
However it is almost double the population immediately after Katrina.

I expect the Bahamas to thin out quite a bit in the same manner.
LOL! is offline  
Old 09-07-2019, 05:26 PM   #12
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
NW-Bound's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 25,111
Quote:
Originally Posted by davebarnes View Post
Can we buy the Bahamas?
I think if the US gives them shelter, many will abandon their home land. We can then use it for a vacation spot, when there's no hurricane that is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RAE View Post
While this may be true, the reality is that the majority of people will NEVER be prepared to live for weeks at a time without power, fuel, water, etc. (especially in a place like the Bahamas). I don't think it's realistic to think (or expect) that many people would be able to do something like that. Further, a lot of people don't have the means or ability to evacuate ahead of time, either. Either they don't have the $$, or they have family obligations that mean they can't just leave (elderly parents, etc). Sure, if I (with the resources that I have) had been on Abaco and I knew that Category 5 Dorian was headed straight at me, I would have left. But you can't expect that a majority of Bahamians would be able to do the same thing.
It just sucks when you do not have money. No money, no option but to stay and pray.
__________________
"Old age is the most unexpected of all things that can happen to a man" -- Leon Trotsky
NW-Bound is online now  
Old 09-07-2019, 05:32 PM   #13
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 9,719
Quote:
Originally Posted by RAE View Post
While this may be true, the reality is that the majority of people will NEVER be prepared to live for weeks at a time without power, fuel, water, etc. (especially in a place like the Bahamas). I don't think it's realistic to think (or expect) that many people would be able to do something like that. Further, a lot of people don't have the means or ability to evacuate ahead of time, either. [...]
I completely agree.

My comments were directed at folks reading this forum in terms of their own disaster preparation.

We often see threads started on "disaster prep" and lots of interesting advice. Besides the current situation in the Bahamas, another disaster scenario is Venezuela which is not a natural disaster.

The lesson, however, is that if the Cavalry is not already in place, then it will never arrive in time, so be prepared or be a stoic.
LOL! is offline  
Old 09-07-2019, 05:49 PM   #14
Moderator
Aerides's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 3,589
Living in FL, + being of some means, + ER'd, + having been through a few hurricanes, my "plan" is far more easily executed than someone who works for a living and lives on a small island.

If my house is decimated and I live, I can and will pick up and go somewhere else. I can afford to drive or fly or at least get myself to wherever I can get a plane or a vehicle. In the worst case scenario, I'll experience survival-camping stuff for a few days. Even after IRMA left us with no power and damage, we spent 12 hours on the turnpike for a 4 hour drive and were in a hotel 2 days after the storm.

Folks who live in CA in the areas prone to burning have "go boxes" - they have a plan to execute if and when they get that 15 minute warning. I have a friend who lived in Paradise who got out just in time last year, and with the help of FEMA and insurance is in a new home and new town this year.

People in Tornado alley should have a plan for when the sirens go off.

I think it's a little different if you're on a island, and of comfortable financial means. And now everything is flattened, and you have no boat, no money, no water. Every day these people are finding out that loved ones didn't make it. They saw their pets die or get washed away. They are mourning their old lives and scared, so I have nothing but sympathy for their situation.

There are ways we can help. Many charities big and small. In FL my local fire and police are arranging boats for shipments of supplies to take over in many trips. Even on nextdoor neighbors are organizing supply runs in their smaller boats. Now is not the time to tsk tsk shoulda coulda woulda.
Aerides is offline  
Old 09-07-2019, 05:52 PM   #15
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
timo2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Bernalillo
Posts: 2,005
Quote:
Originally Posted by NW-Bound View Post
On the other hand, Bahamas is a country of 700 low-lying islands. There's no place for the Bahamians to go.

Just one more example of the current and upcoming global warming induced human migration crises that is driving so much resistance from the destination countries around the world.
__________________
"We live the lives we lead because of the thoughts we think" Michael O’Neill

"We can cannot compel others to do our will" Norman Goldman
timo2 is offline  
Old 09-07-2019, 05:56 PM   #16
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Midpack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: LKN
Posts: 13,948
It’s sad when a hurricane strikes, but no government large or small can afford to be staffed and trained to deal with sporadic catastrophes, much less Dorian going thru the Bahamas, the strongest hurricane ever? No one, except maybe the residents who know they’re dangerously exposed, wants to pay for a permanent disaster personnel on a scale that would sit idle almost 100% of the time. Nor will there ever be enough contractors and supplies to immediately start rebuilding as soon as a storm passes. Even a large country like the US can’t afford to have personnel trained and ready for Sandy, Andrew, Katrina, Dorian, etc. No one living in coastal NJ, FL, NoLa, the Bahamas and all the Caribbean, etc. can say they didn’t realize they were exposed to severe damage from hurricanes. It’s going to happen, and lengthy hardship will follow for most, doesn’t matter how beautiful or historic the place is.

And I’ll leave the subject of fools who choose to ride out hurricanes knowing they’re in the path alone...other than I have no sympathy for them and no expectation that first responders should take risks to bail out those who stay. They’ll respond when it’s safe and they get to you, be prepared for a long wait and hope you get lucky.

And if climate change is making things worse as many contend, there’s going to me more hardship for those who choose to live in harms way.

Quote:
Dorian became a historic Category 5 hurricane Sunday with sustained 185-mph winds and gusts of up to 225 mph, the highest ever recorded in the Atlantic, the National Hurricane Center reported.
__________________
No one agrees with other people's opinions; they merely agree with their own opinions -- expressed by somebody else. Sydney Tremayne
Retired Jun 2011 at age 57

Target AA: 45% equity funds / 30% bond funds / 25% cash - radically changed Nov 2018
Target WR: Approx 2.5% Approx 20% SI (secure income, SS only)
Midpack is offline  
Old 09-07-2019, 06:00 PM   #17
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Los Angeles area
Posts: 1,532
for future planning :
Attached Images
File Type: png naturaldisaster.png (159.9 KB, 213 views)
__________________
learn, work, save, invest, fire
CyclingInvestor is offline  
Old 09-07-2019, 06:09 PM   #18
Full time employment: Posting here.
MissMolly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 999
Quote:
Originally Posted by davebarnes View Post
Can we buy the Bahamas?
__________________
And whatever your labors and aspirations in the noisy confusion of life, keep peace in your soul. With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be cheerful. Strive to be happy.- Desiderata by Max Ehrmann
MissMolly is offline  
Old 09-07-2019, 06:10 PM   #19
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
NW-Bound's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 25,111
^^^ Nice and interesting chart, but we need to know what the colors of the circles mean.

Who wouldda thunk Dallas is such a high-risk area?

Corvallis is another city called out in the map. I know some posters here live there.
__________________
"Old age is the most unexpected of all things that can happen to a man" -- Leon Trotsky
NW-Bound is online now  
Old 09-07-2019, 06:24 PM   #20
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
NW-Bound's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 25,111
OK. The above disaster map has been "stolen" and posted all over the Web. I found a reference to its origin here, in the NY Times in 2011.

https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nyti...safe.html?_r=0

The above reference has a list of 8 most hazardous cities in the US, and Texas has the honor of having 5 on that list: Dallas, Corpus Christi, Houston, Beaumont-Port Arthur, and Austin. Yikes!

And I don't think the preparer of that map has seen REWahoo's list either. This just makes Texas a more scary place.

PS. I found and linked the complete map, with annotations.



__________________

__________________
"Old age is the most unexpected of all things that can happen to a man" -- Leon Trotsky
NW-Bound is online now  
Closed Thread


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
I hear the cavalry charge haha FIRE and Money 5 10-17-2014 12:48 PM
What ever I say, it ain`t good enough. mountain biker Other topics 31 02-11-2013 07:40 AM
Retirement - 1 million dollars ain't enough shotgunner FIRE and Money 137 03-23-2010 11:36 AM
No dividends, no cash comin' in Sparky FIRE and Money 25 03-10-2009 09:50 PM
A Day at Beach in the Bahamas - Picture thread - Here you go Jarhead Cut-Throat Life after FIRE 10 02-22-2007 12:57 PM

» Quick Links

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:11 AM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.