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Old 05-07-2012, 02:56 AM   #481
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I suspect that jobs like this attract a higher percentage of sadists and wannabees than your average minimum wage job.
Most of the freedoms which are guaranteed in our various countries' constitutions were put there over time as wise heads realised that some of the people hired by the state to protect its interests, and those of its citizens, are not to be trusted. Then something bad happens and it's "headless chicken mode" for a while, until we realise that the costs are excessive. Unfortunately you can still find lots of people who will put up with anything "because it stops me being blown up". (These people typically smoke cigarettes, drive automobiles, and drive lottery tickets.)
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Old 05-07-2012, 09:23 AM   #482
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(These people typically smoke cigarettes, drive automobiles, and drive lottery tickets.)
How do you drive a lottery ticket? Where's the steering wheel?
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Old 05-07-2012, 09:56 AM   #483
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You should have gotten their names and charged them with assault and battery.
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Boy, M Paq, I don't know if I could have been as nice as you were about that situation. I might still be in jail. Someone wacks me with a scanner and I'm going to deck him. Shoot now and ask questions later is my motto. Certainly they have security cameras recording all the goings on. I'll be damned if I'd let my pants fall down to my knees and not do something about it. Somebody would be decked and maybe me included. I'm 6' 3" and 230# and I wouldn't puit up with that kind of crap. I'd be swinging and set the cameras record it.

Yeah, I know, miss your flight and all that. Easy for me to say, right?
You guys obviously haven't been following this topic at all, have you? There's no way to sue, charge, and definitely not defend yourself against this group. Or any gov't agency, for that matter. These indignities that M Paq and others have experienced are on the far lower level of offensive activities by the TSA. Obviously, most people go through without problems, and most pat downs are handled appropriately (assuming any pat down can be appropriate). But complaining gets no response, lawsuits are dismissed, and physical confrontations get you charged and incarcerated, plus never being able to fly again. The cameras would only be used to incriminate you, since the agents can't be charged and your response would be assualt if not terrorism. No matter how absurd, the agents actions are always deemed to be proper procedure. As long as they are out there and allowed to do this stuff the only options are hope you don't get singled out, put up with it, or quit flying.

Just for another example, check this one out. Conquering the Terrorist Threat by Terrorizing Little Girls - Hit & Run : Reason.com
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Old 05-07-2012, 10:35 AM   #484
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You guys obviously haven't been following this topic at all, have you? There's no way to sue, charge, and definitely not defend yourself against this group. Or any gov't agency, for that matter. These indignities that M Paq and others have experienced are on the far lower level of offensive activities by the TSA. Obviously, most people go through without problems, and most pat downs are handled appropriately (assuming any pat down can be appropriate). But complaining gets no response, lawsuits are dismissed, and physical confrontations get you charged and incarcerated, plus never being able to fly again. The cameras would only be used to incriminate you, since the agents can't be charged and your response would be assualt if not terrorism. No matter how absurd, the agents actions are always deemed to be proper procedure. As long as they are out there and allowed to do this stuff the only options are hope you don't get singled out, put up with it, or quit flying.

Just for another example, check this one out. Conquering the Terrorist Threat by Terrorizing Little Girls - Hit & Run : Reason.com
I agree with what you've said but I am not above tilting at windmills. There has to be some way to get rid of the TSA, but, short of a major change in politicians I don't know what it is. There are many examples of the sort of thugs that are part of TSA. I get the impression that it is a legal occupation for those that would otherwise be mugging people at gunpoint.
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Old 05-07-2012, 10:38 AM   #485
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I agree with what you've said but I am not above tilting at windmills. There has to be some way to get rid of the TSA, but, short of a major change in politicians I don't know what it is.
And I don't know how you get *that* without taking away their personal, tax-funded security details and subjecting them to the same TSA lines and screenings as everyone else. Perhaps then they'd understand why so many travelers are fed up with TSA.
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Old 05-07-2012, 02:22 PM   #486
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I agree with what you've said but I am not above tilting at windmills. There has to be some way to get rid of the TSA, but, short of a major change in politicians I don't know what it is. There are many examples of the sort of thugs that are part of TSA. I get the impression that it is a legal occupation for those that would otherwise be mugging people at gunpoint.
Well, airports can request to opt out and use private screening services. A total of 16 airports were permitted to do this, although no additional airports were added to the list in recent years. Requests by airport operators to use private security firms have been turned down by the TSA as they do not offer, in the TSA response text, “a clear and substantial advantage to TSA’s security operations.”

Note that language. Not a clear and substantial advantage to the United States, or to air travel security, or to airline passengers. The requests are turned down because they don't offer a clear and substantial advantage to the TSA.

http://newsfeed.time.com/2011/06/30/...-its-not-easy/

Anecdotally, the private screeners at San Francisco International are faster, cheerful, and far more polite than the TSA screeners across the bay at Oakland International.

http://covenantsecurity.com/sfo/
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Old 05-07-2012, 05:25 PM   #487
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That's it - I'm only flying in my kilt from now on. No danger of being accused of being the new underwear bomber.
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Old 05-07-2012, 06:24 PM   #488
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A couple weeks ago a fellow Oregonian stripped to his skin in line when TSA said they detected the explosives on his clothes. Another Air Passenger Strips Naked At An Airport « The Gaslamp Post He said he wanted to assure them that he is a safe traveler because he flys a lot. Initially they considered filing charges for indecent exposure but evidently someone thought better of that. ... Maybe too many jurors have gone through security at PDX.

Balancing this out a bit is the report of another underwear type bombing attempt today.
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Old 05-07-2012, 07:07 PM   #489
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That's it - I'm only flying in my kilt from now on. No danger of being accused of being the new underwear bomber.
Well, it doesn't look like the TSA was at all involved in this. I don't think anybody is saying that there's no need for security or intelligence work, just that the TSA doesn't provide the one and doesn't possess the other. I'll be curious to see the reports over time as to what this was and how likely it would have been to be caught by the security measures now in place.
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Old 05-07-2012, 07:50 PM   #490
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Another Air Passenger Strips Naked At An Airport
Post 9/11, my employer went nuts and installed metal detectors at all entrances. All staff had to go through the metal detector, every morning and whenever they moved between buildings. (As if an 800-person office building needs protecting like an airliner; there's a fully-staffed cafeteria with some very sharp knives in the kitchen, etc etc. Security theater to the max.)

Anyway, one day our building's detector must have been turned up to maximum. It kept beeping. I stripped down to my underpants and still it beeped. I would have removed them too, but I happened to know the security person was a devout Muslim and would not have appreciated it.

Security has since been scaled back. Now, we only have to go through the metal detector four weeks a year, when a specific political event takes place. So as long as we bring in our Kalashnikovs the week before, we're OK to organise a killing spree.

Oh, and the guy who fills the ATM which we have inside the building? Yep, he gets to keep his gun. Even if a high-level politician is visiting. (The computer maintenance guys get to take system unit boxes through, but then have to go through the detector themselves and take their keys out of their pockets.)
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Old 05-07-2012, 11:07 PM   #491
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Post 9/11, my employer went nuts and installed metal detectors at all entrances.
It's just a deterrent, not a repellent!
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Old 05-08-2012, 11:10 AM   #492
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It's just a deterrent, not a repellent!
Oh, it is definitely repellent.

I drove to my business destination yesterday without incident and could bring whatever I like with me (as long as it fits in my truck). I will be doing this for preference in the future, at least until winter storms make it impractical.
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Old 05-08-2012, 02:30 PM   #493
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I drove to my business destination yesterday without incident and could bring whatever I like with me (as long as it fits in my truck). I will be doing this for preference in the future, at least until winter storms make it impractical.
+1

The degree to which flying sucks today was the major factor in deciding where to go on vacation this year. There were a lot of other things we were considering -- the only "must have" being that it's a lot cooler than Texas in the middle of summer -- but the fact that they all involved flying eventually made them lose out.

I'd rather deal with a 10 hour drive each way with a panting dog in the back seat and spend a few days in a cabin at elevation than do anything involving flying.
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Old 05-08-2012, 06:22 PM   #494
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+1

The degree to which flying sucks today was the major factor in deciding where to go on vacation this year. There were a lot of other things we were considering -- the only "must have" being that it's a lot cooler than Texas in the middle of summer -- but the fact that they all involved flying eventually made them lose out.

I'd rather deal with a 10 hour drive each way with a panting dog in the back seat and spend a few days in a cabin at elevation than do anything involving flying.
That may be the way to get rid of TSA, if enough people give up flying because it's too much hassle.
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Old 05-08-2012, 06:45 PM   #495
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That may be the way to get rid of TSA, if enough people give up flying because it's too much hassle.
Timely article from the BBC about the hassles of flying (not too much about security, which is slightly less intrusive in Europe).
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Old 05-08-2012, 10:07 PM   #496
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+1

The degree to which flying sucks today was the major factor in deciding where to go on vacation this year. There were a lot of other things we were considering -- the only "must have" being that it's a lot cooler than Texas in the middle of summer -- but the fact that they all involved flying eventually made them lose out.

I'd rather deal with a 10 hour drive each way with a panting dog in the back seat and spend a few days in a cabin at elevation than do anything involving flying.
I spent the evening fishing and hiking around a multi thousand acre wildlife management area rather than sitting in my hotel room. Much easier to bring my fishing rod and tackle box in the truck vs. the plane. In the fall I am seriously considering tossing one of my rifle/shotgun combos (Savage Model 24) in the truck and seeing if I cannot bag dinner.
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Old 05-08-2012, 10:40 PM   #497
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In the fall I am seriously considering tossing one of my rifle/shotgun combos (Savage Model 24) in the truck and seeing if I cannot bag dinner.
Hopefully you're doing that in a wildlife area too...

I wonder if hotel concierges handle field-dressing and fish-cleaning?
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Old 05-08-2012, 11:49 PM   #498
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Hopefully you're doing that in a wildlife area too...

I wonder if hotel concierges handle field-dressing and fish-cleaning?
I take pains to comply with all applicable regulations and I was in a wildlife management area.

The hotel I stay in is all suites with kitchens, including a dishwasher, etc.
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Old 05-09-2012, 02:29 PM   #499
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April Statistics On Airport Screening From The Department Of Homeland Security:

Terrorists Discovered
0
Transvestites
133
Hernias
1,485
Hemorrhoid Cases
3,172
Enlarged Prostates
8,249
Breast Implants
59,350
Natural Blondes
3
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Old 05-09-2012, 05:56 PM   #500
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April Statistics On Airport Screening From The Department Of Homeland Security:

Terrorists Discovered
0
Transvestites
133
Hernias
1,485
Hemorrhoid Cases
3,172
Enlarged Prostates
8,249
Breast Implants
59,350
Natural Blondes
3
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